Auto conversion
Discussion
Question for Arnie & Roger I guess, how difficult would it be to fit a 4L80E to a Monaro? I know the loom needs to be changed to factor in the electronics but I have seen some advertised as full manual control.
Just curious as mine is in bits and needs a new clutch before it goes back together. Let's face it, the worst part about Monaro ownership is changing gear and I think an auto would be a nice enhancement:
www.extremeautomatics.com/transmissions/4l80e.html
Just curious as mine is in bits and needs a new clutch before it goes back together. Let's face it, the worst part about Monaro ownership is changing gear and I think an auto would be a nice enhancement:
www.extremeautomatics.com/transmissions/4l80e.html
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 13th October 17:42
monkfish1 said:
Dont forget you old clutch wont be going back in, that will make a whole world of difference. The Shifter isn't ideal either, its pretty heavy too. Maybe change that, or if memory serves its adjustable, so we might be able to make it lighter.
It was pretty horrible before so look forward to something better. I guess the auto conversion is not that cost effective but if the manual can be nice to drive, I will persevere.
4L80E goes in no trouble. You need quite a few bits to make the conversion work: Brake pedal, loom (I used a FAST controller, but a stock one would be nice), shifter, trans cooler, flex plate and the converter. Converter choice is a pain, as the ones you use to race on the strip aren't well suited to road use. The prop will need modifying too. With only four gears, the diff ratio will need to change. I needed a much higher ratio to make a decent speed in third.
One thing worth looking into is the six speed autobox. You can get a paddle shifter kit for it...
Personally speaking, I think these cars are transformed with the addition of a decent autobox. Much more of a muscle car feel IMHO
One thing worth looking into is the six speed autobox. You can get a paddle shifter kit for it...
Personally speaking, I think these cars are transformed with the addition of a decent autobox. Much more of a muscle car feel IMHO
I think Gareth and I have FLT transmissions. Mine is too early for proper feedback, but its in and running fine for now.
Gareth has the 4l65e with 5 planetary gearset with a better ratio spread IIRC.
I run a 3500 stall and with the 3.42 gears it works well, much better than with the 2.75 diff that was in there before.
I imagine Arnie ran a stall in the 4000 range. But mine is as near to a daily as I can make it. Just ran it through stick's MOT yesterday. Still working on the tune, but it goes sideways on demand. I wanted to play about with an auto to see if it was any better etc. Basically its not. The manual is much better IMO. But you can definitely tweak the auto's around and get them running with more aggressive characteristics with a stall, shift kit and diff gearing.
Gareth has the 4l65e with 5 planetary gearset with a better ratio spread IIRC.
I run a 3500 stall and with the 3.42 gears it works well, much better than with the 2.75 diff that was in there before.
I imagine Arnie ran a stall in the 4000 range. But mine is as near to a daily as I can make it. Just ran it through stick's MOT yesterday. Still working on the tune, but it goes sideways on demand. I wanted to play about with an auto to see if it was any better etc. Basically its not. The manual is much better IMO. But you can definitely tweak the auto's around and get them running with more aggressive characteristics with a stall, shift kit and diff gearing.
Cheers guys, something to think about but sounds like I'm better off just sticking with the manual box and coughing up for a decent clutch. The LS9 feels like stock and, because it was developed by GM just works. It will take a bit of fiddling to make the flywheel fit my 8 bolt crank but Roger sounds confident.
Engine is built and going on the dyno soon and it will be mapped with the aquamist system when the engine is back in the car. Hopefully back for Christmas.
Engine is built and going on the dyno soon and it will be mapped with the aquamist system when the engine is back in the car. Hopefully back for Christmas.
There are companies who sell LS9 based kits for the earlier engines, so there is no mucking with flywheels etc. Just buy and install.
I think Katech and Lingenfelter are the main ones.
However for the older engines the LS9 clutch does not fit inside the bellhousing, so they provide a 1/2" long spacer to go between the BH and engine. Obviously stuff has to move to allow that to happen. Either the engine, the trans, or a bit of both.
Ive also seen photos of people having burnt these clutches to a crisp. I'd be inclined to think it's typical Americans not knowing how to drive a manual though.
The ACT is simply fit and drive, and much cheaper because there are no conversion kits on top of the price of the actual clutch.
Also, if you buy the organic and for whatever reason it doesnt hold, all you need to do is buy a pair of paddle discs to upgrade which wont cost much at all.
I dont think there are any readily available upgrades for the LS9 setup if for whatever reason it didnt hold.
As for an auto conversion, maybe Andy Frost could build something or advise ?
The most basic swap the tanks do is the TH400 type box which is a manually shifted 4 speed and then fit with a matching tall rear end so you have a good range of road speed available.
No idea about the modern boxes...are any of the ratios overdriven ?
Or RPM Transmissions in the states seem to be the people to use. But consider this. You're building an engine to make monster torque at low rpm. With a manual gearbox you can get to use that torque.
With an automatic you cannot because you'd never be able to have the throttle open and maintain low rpm's
So if a 3500 stall etc means that it basically slips until it hits this rpm, you would never really be able to apply full power until 3500rpm as the convertor will just slip until this point anyway.
So in reality you want an engine that will excel from 3500rpm upwards.
I think Katech and Lingenfelter are the main ones.
However for the older engines the LS9 clutch does not fit inside the bellhousing, so they provide a 1/2" long spacer to go between the BH and engine. Obviously stuff has to move to allow that to happen. Either the engine, the trans, or a bit of both.
Ive also seen photos of people having burnt these clutches to a crisp. I'd be inclined to think it's typical Americans not knowing how to drive a manual though.
The ACT is simply fit and drive, and much cheaper because there are no conversion kits on top of the price of the actual clutch.
Also, if you buy the organic and for whatever reason it doesnt hold, all you need to do is buy a pair of paddle discs to upgrade which wont cost much at all.
I dont think there are any readily available upgrades for the LS9 setup if for whatever reason it didnt hold.
As for an auto conversion, maybe Andy Frost could build something or advise ?
The most basic swap the tanks do is the TH400 type box which is a manually shifted 4 speed and then fit with a matching tall rear end so you have a good range of road speed available.
No idea about the modern boxes...are any of the ratios overdriven ?
Or RPM Transmissions in the states seem to be the people to use. But consider this. You're building an engine to make monster torque at low rpm. With a manual gearbox you can get to use that torque.
With an automatic you cannot because you'd never be able to have the throttle open and maintain low rpm's
So if a 3500 stall etc means that it basically slips until it hits this rpm, you would never really be able to apply full power until 3500rpm as the convertor will just slip until this point anyway.
So in reality you want an engine that will excel from 3500rpm upwards.
I believe the 4L80E is basically the 4 speed version of the TH400.
There is also a 6L90E for beefy 6 speeders.
As for where to get your trans from...
As always DYOR
A manual will give you an infinitely variable stall (just release at whatever rpm you want. Clutch takes care of power rating for the most part. Shift kit = learn how to shift properly.
So the other part rear gears are already well known. There is zero reason for anyone to suffer from a heavy pedal these days with the multiplate clutches which feel stock and hold mega power.
There is also a 6L90E for beefy 6 speeders.
As for where to get your trans from...
As always DYOR
A manual will give you an infinitely variable stall (just release at whatever rpm you want. Clutch takes care of power rating for the most part. Shift kit = learn how to shift properly.
So the other part rear gears are already well known. There is zero reason for anyone to suffer from a heavy pedal these days with the multiplate clutches which feel stock and hold mega power.
Edited by ringram on Monday 15th October 22:32
Harryoz said:
Positive recommendation for ACT here
Act don't seem to do a kit for the 8 bolt flywheel unique to the LSA. However, Ligenfelter do: www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LPE&Product_Code=L360066509&Category_Code=
Also, they do an upgraded ZR1 clutch to go with it: www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LPE&Product_Code=L360050309&Category_Code=C328
Looks like this is the way I will have to go.
wormus said:
Act don't seem to do a kit for the 8 bolt flywheel unique to the LSA. However, Ligenfelter do: http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Scree...
Also, they do an upgraded ZR1 clutch to go with it: http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Scree...
Looks like this is the way I will have to go.
What crank are you using ?Also, they do an upgraded ZR1 clutch to go with it: http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Scree...
Looks like this is the way I will have to go.
If you opt for the LS9 clutch you will need the spacer otherwise it isnt going to fit inside your bellhousing. And this is assuming the factory flywheel is the same offset as the flywheel used in their conversions.
Talk to them to make sure you get all the right parts.
stevieturbo said:
What crank are you using ?
If you opt for the LS9 clutch you will need the spacer otherwise it isnt going to fit inside your bellhousing. And this is assuming the factory flywheel is the same offset as the flywheel used in their conversions.
Talk to them to make sure you get all the right parts.
It's a forged LSA crank (in a forged LSA engine). Options are limited but LPE do have a solution it seems, Roger is aware of the bell housing issue and knows what to do. ACT don't do an 8 bolt option it seems.
ringram said:
Are you running the level 3 organic Dave? Or something else?
T3S-G01 - http://www2.advancedclutch.com/products/clutchkits...Gassing Station | HSV & Monaro | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff