The Tennis Thread

[amare32]

Love how the haters are out in droves to undermine everything Murray has achieved.

Murray looks infinitely stronger than anytime in 2014 after recovering from back surgery. It's great that Federer, Nadal and Djokovic can play the injury card but not so Murray.

IMO Murray should have the gameplan to put Kyrgios in his place in front of his home fans - Andy loves to play at where the crowd is against him.

[Babw]

amare32 said:

Love how the haters are out in droves to undermine everything Murray has achieved.

Murray looks infinitely stronger than anytime in 2014 after recovering from back surgery. It's great that Federer, Nadal and Djokovic can play the injury card but not so Murray.

IMO Murray should have the gameplan to put Kyrgios in his place in front of his home fans - Andy loves to play at where the crowd is against him.

If you're referring to me, you've got the wrong end of the stick.

Andy is my favourite ATP player, what he's done is fantastic but I'm sure even he would agree that he would have won more slams by now if he had been able to get the best out of himself in those key points.

With his skill and ability if the best of his career is behind him, there will be a lot of disappointed fans; me included. It would be a massive shame if in 5 years we're looking at Djokovic with 10+ slams and Murray with 2 because at their best I think Murray is the better player + probably fitter so it basically comes down to mentality.

Federer backhand v Nadal is a non point. Federer openly said how his bh is his weakest shot, he finds it difficult to get over high balls i.e Nadal especially on clay. Nadal has been destroying 1hbh for a decade, Wawrinka has the best 1hbh on the tour now no? He was talking on a couple of days ago about how he loves playing lefties as their forehand gets the sweet spot on his bh apart from Nadal where he feels his backhand is only half as effective.

That's a bit like saying why doesn't Fed just changed to 2hbh, surely it's mentally weak sticking to his ancient 1hbh which hasn't beaten Nadal for like 7 years? You can't say it's mentally weak to not change a technical trait that's been a part of your game since your game matures at like 13 years old.

Good luck to both tomorrow morning, hope it's a great match.


Edit -

Just catching Mats Wilander on Eurosport and he put what I mean quite well. He says when Djokovic is put under pressure his focus goes up, intensity goes up and seems to miss less. A lot of other players gets nervous and seems to get tight.

I'm assuming everyone contributing in this thread plays tennis at a club level or higher, it's literally taken me years to feel loose and not make stupid errors on big points because I'm nervous. I give massive credit to Djokovic/Nadal/Fed on how they seem to get the best out of themselves consistently when put under pressure. I've read all the books and now only in my late twenties can I just about serve out a match without thinking too hard about it.

Edited by Babw on Monday 26th January 23:39

[amare32]

Babw said:

amare32 said:

Love how the haters are out in droves to undermine everything Murray has achieved.

Murray looks infinitely stronger than anytime in 2014 after recovering from back surgery. It's great that Federer, Nadal and Djokovic can play the injury card but not so Murray.

IMO Murray should have the gameplan to put Kyrgios in his place in front of his home fans - Andy loves to play at where the crowd is against him.

If you're referring to me, you've got the wrong end of the stick.

Andy is my favourite ATP player, what he's done is fantastic but I'm sure even he would agree that he would have won more slams by now if he had been able to get the best out of himself in those key points.

With his skill and ability if the best of his career is behind him, there will be a lot of disappointed fans; me included. It would be a massive shame if in 5 years we're looking at Djokovic with 10+ slams and Murray with 2 because at their best I think Murray is the better player + probably fitter so it basically comes down to mentality.

Federer backhand v Nadal is a non point. Federer openly said how his bh is his weakest shot, he finds it difficult to get over high balls i.e Nadal especially on clay. Nadal has been destroying 1hbh for a decade, Wawrinka has the best 1hbh on the tour now no? He was talking on a couple of days ago about how he loves playing lefties as their forehand gets the sweet spot on his bh apart from Nadal where he feels his backhand is only half as effective.

That's a bit like saying why doesn't Fed just changed to 2hbh, surely it's mentally weak sticking to his ancient 1hbh which hasn't beaten Nadal for like 7 years? You can't say it's mentally weak to not change a technical trait that's been a part of your game since your game matures at like 13 years old.

Good luck to both tomorrow morning, hope it's a great match.


Edit -

Just catching Mats Wilander on Eurosport and he put what I mean quite well. He says when Djokovic is put under pressure his focus goes up, intensity goes up and seems to miss less. A lot of other players gets nervous and seems to get tight.

I'm assuming everyone contributing in this thread plays tennis at a club level or higher, it's literally taken me years to feel loose and not make stupid errors on big points because I'm nervous. I give massive credit to Djokovic/Nadal/Fed on how they seem to get the best out of themselves consistently when put under pressure. I've read all the books and now only in my late twenties can I just about serve out a match without thinking too hard about it.

Edited by Babw on Monday 26th January 23:39

No it's not directed in anyone but to those who seem to have a grudge against Murray in general.

I think if Murray manages to get one of the statement wins again Fed/Nadal/Djokovic again in a slam, it will do hi confidence a lot of good and might go on a 2012/13 run again.

I wouldn't question his ability to beat the best, after all he has beaten Nole to win his 2 majors.

[Babw]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

There is no benefit to being extrovert about your dismay. Champions portray similar qualities, being composed during adversity is one of them. Safin was the last great player who had uncontrollable emotional outburst etc and he was far from mentally stable so much so that he decided to pack up before his time. There is no doubt that Murray when he screams and hits himself loses focus.

You're assuming the guys that don't show it even though inside they're feeling the pressure and I think when it comes to Fed you're probably right, well known fact about him having a very short temper and a lot of racket smashes etc losing is focus for which his early coaches had major doubts about his career. How he is now isn't luck, he's had to actively work at keeping his game face.

If for nothing it gives the front to the guy across the net that missed volley has no effect on his focus, what Murray does obviously encourages his opponent that they/the game is winding Murray up. Obviously Andy feels the need for the outburst but what's the benefit?

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Not sure what you're getting at here? Are you saying Murray shouldn't have even won those two because they were handed to him due to Djokovic choking?

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I think Fed was trying to stay in the rally to set up his forehand which isn't a mental weakness but playing the percentage. I guess he could try to be a hero and step in on Nadal forehands on the hard courts but that ship has sailed and at 34 he's not going to start trying to rip backhands any better or using a more aggressive grip.

Edited by Babw on Tuesday 27th January 00:09

[Justices]

Babw said:

1. Does anyone know why Dani and Jez left Murray camp?
2. This is just a hunch but I reckon it's because Mauresmo realised that they cocked around too much and was generally not focussed enough on the job. Feel free to correct me.

1. Yes.

2. You couldn't be further from the truth. Dani is one of the best coaches and tennis minds in the world and was not publicly given the full credit he deserves for the tireless work he has done to get Andy into Slam winning positions. Doing all the work but having a title of Assistant Coach and Hitting Partner etc so others can take the credit would bother me massively but everyone on tour knows who does what and he is extremely professional so gets on with making sure Andy is performing and winning. End of last season when Andy went on a tear in Asia and back into Europe? Who was coaching him? Dani. That he was immediately snatched up by Bedych who has a massive game but needs an edge against the guys above him speaks volumes. It is certainly a team effort to condition and prepare a player at this level to compete, but ultimately it is the player that has to follow the game plan of the coach. It took a while for the plan to be followed to completion and when it was he won Slams. Simple as that. With what he has to this point, Andy perhaps doesn't need a coach in the same way he did. He has the tools, he certainly needs a fitness team like any other player to keep him strong and injury free, that's about it.

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that ANY female tennis coach (especially one that choked beyond belief on tour) can teach Andy Murray. Picture a Slam final, it's 2 sets all, 5 games all, you are stepping up to serve and Rafa is at the other end. What in the world could Mauresmo possibly tell Andy Murray that would be of any benefit whatsoever at this moment? Much like the ridiculous hiring of the female coach for the men's Spanish Davis Cup team who will sit the best competitor ever to play the game during his match. "Hey Rafa.. er, I know what it's like out there (even though I have no experience in men's tennis by the way), maybe try a little harder as this final singles rubber depends on you?" Women's tennis is simply a completely different game and the stroke repertoire, speed, power, court movement, physical strain, psychological pressure, competition and tactics to name a few are wholly dissimilar You will never see them host a men's college player vs women's top 10 player match because it would be a disaster for WTA PR when their stars get beaten by guys who yet to hold a world ranking. They'll host a men's vs women's top 10 and fix it for the media however..

[JNW1]

Well, I see that for the first time Tomas Berdych has managed to beat Nadal (and in straight sets at that!); perhaps Dani Vallverdu's coaching is starting to have an impact?! This should really open-up the draw for Murray though; fancy him to come through against Kyrgios and generally I'd expect him to beat Berdych as well (although having said that you'd expect Vallverdu to be able to offer a few tips on how to play against Murray!).

[Justices]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Dani onboard with Berdych just destroyed Nadal in straights. After 18 attempts that's a great weight to get off of your shoulders. Perfect start to their season season I'd say. He awaits the winner of Andy/Nick in the semis. It would be a very interesting match up with all the background on the coaching bench!

IMO the issue with women coaching men is that the VAST majority never had the shots that men do. For me this is like someone trying to teach you a language they only partly know, but you knowing far more than them and having an experience at a far, far higher level. It's certainly not about the level of tennis you have achieved, I know plenty of great coaches that were unable to crack the top tier on tour, but they understand the game and importantly can teach the game. You can look through the women's draw and see the incredible number of abysmal serve techniques and ask the question why women who are physically able to serve using the same forms as men do (if not as hard) develop serves which wouldn't even get you into the lowest team of men's college tennis. I've been asked to look at a few promising female players and for as accurate as their flat groundstrokes are (easy to get good at a shot if you only hit one shot), they can't seem to be able to throw a ball from one end of the court to the other, quite bizarre. Not all players, but the vast majority of them certainly. There is also no variation to the game, it's just about going on court to out-pummelling the opponent who is doing the exact same thing which again makes little sense. This is why Justine Henin, Navratilova, Graf and a few others were actually pleasures to watch as they understood court-craft although Graf's form was fairly wooden.

As for the state of mind, Andy's previous team were doing very well on this front taking him from not being in any kind of slam contention to consistently arriving in the semis, to making finals then winning them. The final steps were down to Andy and he took them in great style. Up until his injury after Wimbledon things were only ever improving from my point of view. Bringing Mauresmo onboard seemed only to destabilise the team he had, if he wanted a fresh group to work with then that of course is his choice. Or perhaps it is some high-level gamble to play mental games with the other players, who knows? The only guy he really needs to worry about right now is Novak. Rafa won't be around for much longer I suspect and Roger is susceptible to losses early on if he is not focused as the aura of invincibility is long gone and everyone wants to claim a win from him and take that to the bank back in their hometowns.

Mauresmo is certainly not someone I'd ever consider choose to put on any team when it comes to the mental game as she was as fragile as they came. If I had to pick a woman then perhaps Navratilova as her game was as close to the complete game as I ever saw and she knows EVERYTHING about fighting and winning. On the mental side Steffi Graff perhaps.

Andy's run from Asia (I was courtside for all his matches and there was just a lack of desire to play, but as soon as he decided he wanted to play he won) all the way to finish 5th/6th in the world was remarkable. These guys (Andy included) are given very clear game plans before they fight it out on the match court. He had two tournaments that were won by saving 6 match points in each against the same player (Shenzhen/Valencia). My theory is he basically knows he only has to concern himself with 3-4 guys and play A-game tennis to win, the rest of the draw seems like it's a bit of a forced effort to stay focused as he knows he can win should he decide to play half decent tennis. All of those wins highlighted his mental strength and had bog-all to do with Mauresmo. I have no answers as to why he has gone down this route, haven't asked. I do know there are countless people with more experience that could also sit at home for most of the and pop out to a few tournaments every now and then and take credit. If there is a decent salary offer, I'd consider it

Boris is the funniest coach choice for me. My personal tennis hero, but he is mainly found in the lounge eating quite consistently before toddling off to the court to have a look around. Novak was doing just fine with his original setup so I am not sure a legendary millionaire pie-eating playboy joining the team is anything more than symbolic. Nice headlines for the ATP though and I know they are trying to recruit more former players to coach active players and make good stories from the collaborations.

Apologies in advance, I was typing this while doing several things over a few hours so excuse the rambling and ranting.

Edited by Justices on Tuesday 27th January 08:41

[E24man]

Kyrgios's showmanship in the second set was bordering on unsporting gamesmanship and as he was worshipping himself and his winning points I did think that he is believing himself to be a better player than he actually is..... a point proved by Murray in his cool calm winning of the tie-break.

[Justices]

Christ, missed the whole thing and just saw the scoreline.

Get in there Andy! He SHOULD deal with Berdych but Tomas is playing very aggressively this tournament and will be given the perfect plan to go up against Andy. Whether he will execute and stick with it is another thing. If Andy can come through and then, very likely go up against Novak and take the title.. that's three of the four slams! Pretty bloody good I'd say.

Great tournament so far, great atmosphere as always with knowledgable and passionate crowd.

[JNW1]

Justices said:

Christ, missed the whole thing and just saw the scoreline.

Get in there Andy! He SHOULD deal with Berdych but Tomas is playing very aggressively this tournament and will be given the perfect plan to go up against Andy. Whether he will execute and stick with it is another thing. If Andy can come through and then, very likely go up against Novak and take the title.. that's three of the four slams! Pretty bloody good I'd say.

Great tournament so far, great atmosphere as always with knowledgable and passionate crowd.

Yes, hope I'm not tempting a slip-up but I can see Murray going on to win the tournament. As you say, Berdych will have someone in his corner who ought to be able to give him a few pointers on how to play against Murray but I reckon Andy will come through in the end. If he does it's probably Novak in the final but having said that Stan's still in the tournament and seems to be getting a bit overlooked (not least by the organisers who don't seem to have put him on the Rod Laver Arena that often even though he's defending champion!).

[amare32]

JNW1 said:

Well, I see that for the first time Tomas Berdych has managed to beat Nadal (and in straight sets at that!); perhaps Dani Vallverdu's coaching is starting to have an impact?! This should really open-up the draw for Murray though; fancy him to come through against Kyrgios and generally I'd expect him to beat Berdych as well (although having said that you'd expect Vallverdu to be able to offer a few tips on how to play against Murray!).

Kudos to Berdych for beating Nadal but Rafa was half baked, most top guys would have done the same today.

Roll on Murray v Berdych on Thursday.

[Robbo66]

So straight sets then. I called the Murray win for the reasons on display .... K has the mind of a 5 year old on court.

I enjoy reading Mr Justices analysis ... Once indicated he knew everyone on tour personally ...first name terms ...Christmas card lists ..😏
You off to the wedding ?....😉

[JNW1]

amare32 said:

Kudos to Berdych for beating Nadal but Rafa was half baked, most top guys would have done the same today.

To be honest the Nadal we appear to be seeing at the moment is the one I was half expecting to see when he returned from his last lengthy lay-off at the start of 2013. At that time I really expected him to struggle to get back to the highest level but he had a fantastic year and played some of the best tennis of his career almost from his first tournament back; this time, however, he seems to be finding it a bit harder and, while it's far too early to write him off as a winner of more grand slams, I do begin to wonder whether his best years are now behind him?

[Justices]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

More than suggesting. Not in all cases, but certainly in a number of them

[BlackLabel]

Berdych is playing some great tennis at the moment. The bookies have Murray favourite at around 2/3 but I think it's a 50-50 type of match.

The other semi should be a cracker too - the last three times Wawrinka and Djokovic have met in a slam (Australia in 2014 and 2013 and in NY in 2013) the match has gone 5 sets. Djokovic's defensive skills vs Wawrinka's attacking play always makes for a good contest.

[Robbo66]

Justices said:

More than suggesting. Not in all cases, but certainly in a number of them

You're 'in the know' again aren't you. The wink, the inference of 'insider knowledge'.

When's the book out ?.

Life on Tour - Rough 'Justice' .....Can't wait.

An image of a tin of custard in 'Roger's' locker and I'll take it back ....until then I am calling 'Mitty' here.

[BlackLabel]

If anyone is interested Murray's match is live on bbc 2 right now.

Edited by BlackLabel on Thursday 29th January 09:30

[MiniMan64]

And it makes much better viewing if you only started watching from the second set!

[Justices]

Robbo66 said:

An image of a tin of custard in 'Roger's' locker and I'll take it back ....until then I am calling 'Mitty' here.

You'd have to get by the security team he is given at each event, a couple of them have looked like they'd do me harm. I might have to dress as a waiter and tell them Roger specifically requested Bird's.

Meanwhile, I was following the score in the first set and it was as tight as expected. We were busying ourselves with other things and just checked in on the score and see a bagel has been served?! Friends on both sides here so either outcome is fine, but Andy will probably be a stronger bet against Novak if they both make the finals.

[hornetrider]

Great comeback from the first set disappointment so far.