Discussion
Guvernator said:
I guess by ROTJ the rot had started with the teddy bear Ewoks. To be fair though they were originally meant to be an army of Wookies but they didn't have the budget\technology at the time so I'll let that slide.
Not quite. The original idea was always to be for a tribe of 'Noble Savages' to take on the Empire, and Lucas originally intended that to be the Wookiees (note correct spelling 
)However, it was clear by RotJ that Wookiees were quite adept with technology - Chewbacca could co-pilot the Falcon and handle a Bowcaster and the like, so it was decided to come up with a new race instead and thus came the Ewoks (or "those f
king teddy bears" as they are more often called). 
DJRC said:
Defo a whole lot of Too Cool For School going on. I was at the midnight showing of Phantom at the cinema on opening of general release. Nobody was unhappy during the film.
You interviewed each and every one? I travelled up to London to see Phantom Menace at Leicester Square (having held off seeing it at a local cinema for 2 weeks - it was the first showing that wasn't sold out), having bigged up how awesome it was going to be to my girlfriend. I came out deeply, deeply disappointed and told her that I'd been waiting 14 years for that film and couldn't remember when I had last been that disappointed.
Still, your experience overrides mine, eh?
Guvernator said:
Do you not think that had more to do with the atmosphere and anticipation on the night? I too was there on opening night and while the atmosphere was brilliant going in, I can distinctly remember leaving the cinema in a mild state of shock as my brain couldn't process the fact that they'd made manage to screw up a Star Wars film. When I had some more time to think about it the next day and talk it over with friends, my worst fears were confirmed, it just wasn't that good. I am too much of a sci-fi nerd to be too cool for school too so I can't even blame that. 
Yes. Exactly this. 
DJRC said:
Defo a whole lot of Too Cool For School going on. I was at the midnight showing of Phantom at the cinema on opening of general release. Nobody was unhappy during the film. It's still the only time I've been to a UK cinema and ppl were dressed up and cheered/generally acted like Americans during a film.
There was not much wrong with it.
Please watch this and then come back and tell us if you still think 'there was not much wrong' with The Phantom Menace.There was not much wrong with it.
http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-...
JonRB said:
Not quite. The original idea was always to be for a tribe of 'Noble Savages' to take on the Empire, and Lucas originally intended that to be the Wookiees (note correct spelling )
However, it was clear by RotJ that Wookiees were quite adept with technology - Chewbacca could co-pilot the Falcon and handle a Bowcaster and the like, so it was decided to come up with a new race instead and thus came the Ewoks (or "those fking teddy bears" as they are more often called).
If Kurtz could have worked with Lucas Jedi could have been a classic like, Empire, and suitably dark.)However, it was clear by RotJ that Wookiees were quite adept with technology - Chewbacca could co-pilot the Falcon and handle a Bowcaster and the like, so it was decided to come up with a new race instead and thus came the Ewoks (or "those f
king teddy bears" as they are more often called). Halb said:
If Kurtz could have worked with Lucas Jedi could have been a classic like, Empire, and suitably dark.
Well, I think Kershner had the best deal with Empire because the middle film of a trilogy can be darker and downbeat. RotJ had to have a feel-good ending, and the Battle of Endor did have a lot right with it IMO. But, yes, George Lucas is a terrible director but a good producer and a visionary. It's a shame he surrounded himself with sycophants and fired anyone who dared challenge his decisions.The Plinkett reviews make some very pertinent points.
The Kurz/Lucas break immediately pre-Jedi has been discussed here, what a shame!
Han Solo...looking at it now, he probably should have died as planned, along with Luke heading off alone and all the rest of it. Looking back now it is easy to see Kurtz's criticisms as valid, like the whole thing looking like a toy sale.
I do like Jedi, but when I rewatch it (usually at Xmas) I tend to ff through the Endor stuff. Tattooine and then the triple fight at the end for me.
Han Solo...looking at it now, he probably should have died as planned, along with Luke heading off alone and all the rest of it. Looking back now it is easy to see Kurtz's criticisms as valid, like the whole thing looking like a toy sale.
I do like Jedi, but when I rewatch it (usually at Xmas) I tend to ff through the Endor stuff. Tattooine and then the triple fight at the end for me.
RotJ is deeply flawed but there is a lot that is right with it too.
If Han had died we wouldn't have had that amazingly (yet subtly) romantic moment at the entrance to the bunker when Leia has been shot, and Han says (with genuine admiration, as equals, with no soppiness) that he loves Leia. It's easily missed but I think it's one of the most genuinely romantic things on film.
(I'm probably not explaining what I mean very well)
If Han had died we wouldn't have had that amazingly (yet subtly) romantic moment at the entrance to the bunker when Leia has been shot, and Han says (with genuine admiration, as equals, with no soppiness) that he loves Leia. It's easily missed but I think it's one of the most genuinely romantic things on film.
(I'm probably not explaining what I mean very well)
I remember watching TPM on a two CD version, via an Nvidia TNT graphics card, to s-video out to my old GEC bulging screen TV 
But hey, who needs HD cinema quality audio and visuals when the story and acting are so strong
Having caught it again a few months ago I was amazed at how wooden some sections of dialogue are. It's almost like a school play with young kids who can't remember their lines, or forget it is their line. Weird.
Dave
But hey, who needs HD cinema quality audio and visuals when the story and acting are so strong
Having caught it again a few months ago I was amazed at how wooden some sections of dialogue are. It's almost like a school play with young kids who can't remember their lines, or forget it is their line. Weird.
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
Having caught it again a few months ago I was amazed at how wooden some sections of dialogue are. It's almost like a school play with young kids who can't remember their lines, or forget it is their line. Weird.
If you haven't ever watched the Plinkett review then click the link someone posted earlier. It's far worse than you think.JonRB said:
Mr Whippy said:
Having caught it again a few months ago I was amazed at how wooden some sections of dialogue are. It's almost like a school play with young kids who can't remember their lines, or forget it is their line. Weird.
If you haven't ever watched the Plinkett review then click the link someone posted earlier. It's far worse than you think.But like many modern films it's just in yer face crap these days.
I took a free month of Now TV Sky Movies and watched a few 'blockbusters' from the last few years and they're all just throw-away trash time wasters really.
There are still the odd gems out there, but there is a lot of junk too... playing on pre-film hype or re-make mania or whatever else.
Getting these new Star Wars films right is gonna be a tough balancing act imo.
Dave
JonRB said:
RotJ is deeply flawed but there is a lot that is right with it too.
If Han had died we wouldn't have had that amazingly (yet subtly) romantic moment at the entrance to the bunker when Leia has been shot, and Han says (with genuine admiration, as equals, with no soppiness) that he loves Leia. It's easily missed but I think it's one of the most genuinely romantic things on film.
(I'm probably not explaining what I mean very well)
Yes, it's a reversal of their lines at the end of 'Empire': "I love you"..."I know".If Han had died we wouldn't have had that amazingly (yet subtly) romantic moment at the entrance to the bunker when Leia has been shot, and Han says (with genuine admiration, as equals, with no soppiness) that he loves Leia. It's easily missed but I think it's one of the most genuinely romantic things on film.
(I'm probably not explaining what I mean very well)
Halmyre said:
Yes, it's a reversal of their lines at the end of 'Empire': "I love you"..."I know".
I realise that. But it's so much more than that too. In Empire, Leia pretty much blurts it out and Han's reply is rather off the cuff (literally; it was an ad lib).
In RotJ it is an acknowledgement of something that has matured and deepened into mutual love, respect and equality. Also Han's is expressing deep admiration that Leia is probably just about to save them both (or get them both killed).
I dunno, perhaps I read too much into that little scene but to me it is quite deep and multi-layered.
ralphrj said:
This gif is supposed to be part of the trailer
My theory: this is exactly why people don't like CGI.Special Effects are supposed to be seamless and make you believe what's happening but they constantly break the rules about what allows a suspension of disbelief. To be convincing, that shot should look like it was filmed with a camera, but they've gone for a shot that couldn't possibly have been filmed (without destroying the camera and killing its operator).
While an audience is fine to go along with spaceships, lasers, monsters etc., I think they snap out of it when it breaks out of the fourth wall like this because the result is, you can't process that as anything other than a computer generated scene.
darth_pies said:
DJRC said:
Defo a whole lot of Too Cool For School going on. I was at the midnight showing of Phantom at the cinema on opening of general release. Nobody was unhappy during the film. It's still the only time I've been to a UK cinema and ppl were dressed up and cheered/generally acted like Americans during a film.
There was not much wrong with it.
Please watch this and then come back and tell us if you still think 'there was not much wrong' with The Phantom Menace.There was not much wrong with it.
http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-...
durbster said:
ralphrj said:
This gif is supposed to be part of the trailer
My theory: this is exactly why people don't like CGI.Special Effects are supposed to be seamless and make you believe what's happening but they constantly break the rules about what allows a suspension of disbelief. To be convincing, that shot should look like it was filmed with a camera, but they've gone for a shot that couldn't possibly have been filmed (without destroying the camera and killing its operator).
While an audience is fine to go along with spaceships, lasers, monsters etc., I think they snap out of it when it breaks out of the fourth wall like this because the result is, you can't process that as anything other than a computer generated scene.
At first they used it to nail the shots that they used to try do but couldn't entirely pull off, with jaw-dropping results (Jurassic Park!)... but today it's just gone bonkers really... to the point that less is more in most CGI films today.
Dave
Nope sorry, going to have to disagree with the ROTJ\Han's Death\Darker = better fans. I think ROTJ is fine the way it is. Sure it has a few slips but that Endor\Death Star Space Battle\Luke Vs Vader Vs Emperor climax is just breathtaking. Even the cuts between the 3 fights scenes are perfectly timed to build to a brilliant crescendo.
They've tried to recreate that interplay of 2-3 different scenes countless times now but none have got close to the original. You want dark, their is plenty of dark in the Luke\Vader\Emperor face off, it doesn't need to end on a further downer with Hans death. Far too many films end on a bum note, with me leaving the cinema slightly sad because they've decided to kill off a main character for no other reason that it now seems cool to do so. This is meant to be a modern day fairy tale, I want a happy finish goddamit. (oo-err)
I know it's cool to say Empire is the best one cos it's "sooo dark" but honestly I get more enjoyment from watching ROTJ because of it's upbeat ending.
They've tried to recreate that interplay of 2-3 different scenes countless times now but none have got close to the original. You want dark, their is plenty of dark in the Luke\Vader\Emperor face off, it doesn't need to end on a further downer with Hans death. Far too many films end on a bum note, with me leaving the cinema slightly sad because they've decided to kill off a main character for no other reason that it now seems cool to do so. This is meant to be a modern day fairy tale, I want a happy finish goddamit. (oo-err)
I know it's cool to say Empire is the best one cos it's "sooo dark" but honestly I get more enjoyment from watching ROTJ because of it's upbeat ending.
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