another abuse gang

[Dog Star]

Aww fking diddums - they're all upset now

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greate...

As a Rochdale local who has suffered a lifetime of these people I couldn't give a rats ass. They've took the piss and been immune and untouchable - now it's coming home to roost. Any local girl will tell you what the taxi drivers are like.

Incidentally - my best female friend apart from my OH is Pakistani and has just gone on long-term sick with depression as a result of a group of these men over 30 years ago (she's 47). I've already mentioned on here my sister getting her arm broken by them too; no police action.

[smegmore]

Mermaid said:

smegmore said:

I expect a serious backlash against this 'community' before much longer, I have family in a NW town where this kind of behaviour has been prevalent and well publicised and I have been told by people 'in the know' that there are already rumblings within the white indigenous community.

More serious race riots pending? Not unlikely I think.

Hope not, but only policy makers can prevent this and they are focused on votes right now.

The 'policy makers' have no interest in this other than how they can garner the public opinion of the day to further their own ends.

If things do kick off and I believe it is inevitable, they will be watching from afar in their own ivory towers tut tutting and mouthing platitudes via the media.

This country is fked.

[andymc]

Dog Star said:

Aww fking diddums - they're all upset now

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greate...

As a Rochdale local who has suffered a lifetime of these people I couldn't give a rats ass. They've took the piss and been immune and untouchable - now it's coming home to roost. Any local girl will tell you what the taxi drivers are like.

Incidentally - my best female friend apart from my OH is Pakistani and has just gone on long-term sick with depression as a result of a group of these men over 30 years ago (she's 47). I've already mentioned on here my sister getting her arm broken by them too; no police action.

hopefully they reap what they sew

[zuby84]

andymc said:

Dog Star said:

Aww fking diddums - they're all upset now

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greate...

As a Rochdale local who has suffered a lifetime of these people I couldn't give a rats ass. They've took the piss and been immune and untouchable - now it's coming home to roost. Any local girl will tell you what the taxi drivers are like.

Incidentally - my best female friend apart from my OH is Pakistani and has just gone on long-term sick with depression as a result of a group of these men over 30 years ago (she's 47). I've already mentioned on here my sister getting her arm broken by them too; no police action.

hopefully they reap what they sew

Camp 1: Yes, hopefully they all get punished and suffer one way or another due to the horrible actions of a subset of their ethnic and religious peers.

vs

Camp 2: We have a big problem with specific types of disgusting crime being disproportionately committed by a specific ethnic group. We all need to get our asses in gear and figure out how to 1) stop it and 2) punish those who have committed these crimes.

It's such a shame that most civilised people would prefer to go with option 2 isn't it? (terrorists normally prefer option 1 - ironic that.)

[goldblum]

heppers75 said:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-3011...

Interesting development.

Saw this on the news earlier. You'd think as this might have been the beginnings of another Rochdale the BBC would have mentioned the fact both groups of men involved were of the same Asian nationality. In fact the TV news almost went out of its way not to. Funnily enough next up was an item slating the UKIP candidate in tomorrow's election... .

[zuby84]

goldblum said:

Saw this on the news earlier. You'd think as this might have been the beginnings of another Rochdale the BBC would have mentioned the fact both groups of men involved were of the same Asian nationality. In fact the TV news almost went out of its way not to. Funnily enough next up was an item slating the UKIP candidate in tomorrow's election... .

Are you in favour of reporting the race and religion of all convicted criminals being mentioned in each news story? If you are, I beg your pardon. However, I suppose you're not really suggesting that are you? Who should decide as to whether race/religion gets mentioned in a news story?

Some people really are trying too hard to infer a "cover-up."

[smegmore]

zuby84 said:

Camp 1: Yes, hopefully they all get punished and suffer one way or another due to the horrible actions of a subset of their ethnic and religious peers.

vs

Camp 2: We have a big problem with specific types of disgusting crime being disproportionately committed by a specific ethnic group. We all need to get our asses in gear and figure out how to 1) stop it and 2) punish those who have committed these crimes.

It's such a shame that most civilised people would prefer to go with option 2 isn't it? (terrorists normally prefer option 1 - ironic that.)

It's admirable that you're defending your particular ethnic group against these unwarranted, vile and racist slurs aimed at a certain section of our gloriously diverse and multi-cultural harmonious population.

There is definitely a propaganda war being waged by rabid, right-wng racists against a section of the community, particularly in the north and the midlands, aimed at painting god-fearing religious people as being horrible child-molesting, sub-human, stone-age, country village mentality 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation descendants of honest, hard working immigrants.

Get a grip of yourself. If you defend these animals in any shape or form that means you are no better than them irrespective of your training, medical position or social standing.

[dudleybloke]

Dog Star said:

Aww fking diddums - they're all upset now

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greate...

Funny how they dont speak out about the filthy nonces in their community.
If they had any decency they wouldn't be playing the victim for a while but no, they still bleat on about how its the world picking on them.

[zuby84]

smegmore said:

It's admirable that you're defending your particular ethnic group against these unwarranted, vile and racist slurs aimed at a certain section of our gloriously diverse and multi-cultural harmonious population.

There is definitely a propaganda war being waged by rabid, right-wng racists against a section of the community, particularly in the north and the midlands, aimed at painting god-fearing religious people as being horrible child-molesting, sub-human, stone-age, country village mentality 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation descendants of honest, hard working immigrants.

Get a grip of yourself. If you defend these animals in any shape or form that means you are no better than them irrespective of your training, medical position or social standing.

Just to be clear - I am NOT "defending these animals" in any way shape or form. I agree with you that they are sickening attacks and hope the perpetrators are severely punished with the full brunt of the lawand the victims get the help they need. We need to have a grown up discussion on how to deal with this. Semi-accusing me of trying to defend them is not on and little wonder why people laugh at people like you.

Have I been straw-manned? There's no need to be so angry because someone has disturbed your circle-jerk. Your comment says it all really - you going to let me stay here? Do I have your permission Sir?

As an aside, your post is one of the most irony-laden posts I have read for a long time. You're two sides of the same coin - you've got more in common with the fkwits that want to make "Sharia Only Zones" etc... than I do. May I suggest that you move country if you want to live in a backwards intolerant society. I hear North Korea is nice this time of year.

(Yes, I will also gladly advise my 'brethren' to go back to a country that is more suitable with their views if they also can't treat people with respect.)

[zuby84]

dudleybloke said:

Funny how they dont speak out about the filthy nonces in their community.
If they had any decency they wouldn't be playing the victim for a while but no, they still bleat on about how its the world picking on them.

That word again... "they"

Who are "they"? All Muslims? All Pakistani's? All Pakistani's living in the North of England? The men only? Children of "they"? The perpetrators? Is Amir Khan a "they"?

(For the removal of doubt, because I am discussing a point with you that you may not agree with - it does not automatically mean that I disagree with everything you or anyone else may think about these vile crimes. Please do not confuse (either unintentinally or intentionally) anything I have said as trying to defend the perpetrators of these crimes.)

Edited by zuby84 on Thursday 20th November 00:47

[dudleybloke]

No zube i was on about the specific people in the article that was posted.

Its a no nonce-sense attitude.

Edited by dudleybloke on Thursday 20th November 00:54

[smegmore]

zuby84 said:

smegmore said:

It's admirable that you're defending your particular ethnic group against these unwarranted, vile and racist slurs aimed at a certain section of our gloriously diverse and multi-cultural harmonious population.

There is definitely a propaganda war being waged by rabid, right-wng racists against a section of the community, particularly in the north and the midlands, aimed at painting god-fearing religious people as being horrible child-molesting, sub-human, stone-age, country village mentality 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation descendants of honest, hard working immigrants.

Get a grip of yourself. If you defend these animals in any shape or form that means you are no better than them irrespective of your training, medical position or social standing.

Just to be clear - I am NOT "defending these animals" in any way shape or form. I agree with you that they are sickening attacks and hope the perpetrators are severely punished with the full brunt of the lawand the victims get the help they need. We need to have a grown up discussion on how to deal with this. Semi-accusing me of trying to defend them is not on and little wonder why people laugh at people like you.

Have I been straw-manned? There's no need to be so angry because someone has disturbed your circle-jerk. Your comment says it all really - you going to let me stay here? Do I have your permission Sir?

As an aside, your post is one of the most irony-laden posts I have read for a long time. You're two sides of the same coin - you've got more in common with the fkwits that want to make "Sharia Only Zones" etc... than I do. May I suggest that you move country if you want to live in a backwards intolerant society. I hear North Korea is nice this time of year.

(Yes, I will also gladly advise my 'brethren' to go back to a country that is more suitable with their views if they also can't treat people with respect.)

Oh dear, I don't know where to start with this but how's this for starters...





I'll come back on the rest of your apologist guff tomorrow after I've had a kip.

It's way past my bedtime so I can't be arsed to see any more of your apologist crap.

'bye.

[spitsfire]

smegmore said:

Oh dear, I don't know where to start with this but how's this for starters...





I'll come back on the rest of your apologist guff tomorrow after I've had a kip.

It's way past my bedtime so I can't be arsed to see any more of your apologist crap.

'bye.

Jean-Jacques Rousseau said:

Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong

[zuby84]

dudleybloke said:

No zube i was on about the specific people in the article that was posted.

Its a no nonce-sense attitude.

Yes, but as I understand from reading the article - they are "innocent"* no? Do they not have a right to be worried about their safety, just as I or you have a right not to have our cars vandalised or racially taunted no matter what we look like or where we come from.

My bigger "fans" on here know that I'm a Muslim. I'm not a single bit like these animals and neither are any of the other Muslims I know. I'm not some type of caped crusader who's job is to go out and look for Muslims/Asians/Pakistani's who are engaging in illegal activity. If I learn of a crime or have any suspicions - I would report it regardless of race just like the next man. Am I guilty? Can I not be worried about if my 10 year old sister, mother or gran are going to be racially abused as they have been subjected to in the past. Are we "they"? Do we deserve punishment and to be looking over our shoulder because other Muslims/Pakistani's have done terrible things? I'm a normal person - I was at the football on Friday along with 8 of my Pakistani cousins supporting Scotland playing against Ireland and again yesterday when we played England. We didn't go to the pub before and we didn't have a bacon sandwich; but does that really matter? I wasn't any less teary-eyed than the White Scot next to me whilst singing The Flower of Scotland.

To squarely lay all the blame at the community as a whole (and in effect all Pakistani's/Muslims) for this is a bit self-defeating IMO. It will only make the community yet more insular and less willing to report crime. We need to reverse that trend - not support it. Of course there will be situations where a criminal is "harboured" by family/friends, but name me situations where this isn't the case. Add in the aspect of "sex" and the taboo that may still be present for the women in finding out that their husbands/sons have been sexually abusing someone; it might not be as easy "to go to the police" for fear of losing face/pride as it may be for me or you. There will also be other cultural things at play here.

There are big problems with integration and it needs proper discussion, but I really think that the extremists on both sides are fanning the flames in questionable tit-for-tat battles down to the bottom - that is why I get so uptight about generalisations. Believe me; just like most Humans - most Pakistani's/Asians/Muslims just largely want to get on with their lives and are decent people. I also am aware that we don't have quite as much of a problem up here in Scotland as you do down South, but still doesn't detract away from the point.

[Pesty]

Zuby I posted earlier in thus thread about an ordinary muslim woman who's daughter had been sexually abused by a muslim next door neighbour.

She was shunned by the comunity for getting one of their own in trouble. She had to move areas because she was abused in the street and threatened by people she thought were freinds. Nobody supported her even her best female close freinds shunned her.

He returned into the fold no problem if course. 'So not only did her own ' not speak out they actually victimised her. And supported him.

This was an interview on radio 4. What is the difference between that community and every other? Other communities burn down paediatricians ( equally moronic) the muslim one attacks the victim. How can this be we are told it's only a handful yet nit one said hold on here. Stop ducking around and support your sister.

No not every muslim obviously but there is a big enough issue with communities who see themselves as different, better than the kafir and want sharia. One law and that's gods law etc etc but most telling was the White women are trash just fit for fking and worthless because they dress like wes test I heard from almost every young Pakistani male. Hundreds of in factories in the Midlands over a decade. the chants of 20 years, the double speak, ... Etc etc I had long conversations with these people over the years religion facsinates me. The stuff they would come out with would be hilarious if it wasn't disturbing.

Please explain Why no Sikh, Hindu or Buddhist stories every day. Where are the Shinto rape gangs. Of course it's just islamophobia. The media picking in them no doubt. Why has a Sikh never told me that he should pnt help a none Sikh with charity because his God wouldn't give him props for doing so.

Perhaps you don't mix with these classes but they are here they are a problem and the more The community not only supports and defends them and goes after the victims as trash nothing will ever change this backward mentality.

Another interview was a lady who started a support group for muslim women in Bolton iirc. She of course got death threats and had to be protected. She couldn't cope with the hundreds of calls she started getting but violence towards wives is another elephant in the room.

Meanwhile birminham kept lid on taxi drivers for 23years.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news...

[andymadmak]

zuby84 said:

I'm not a single bit like these animals and neither are any of the other Muslims I know. I'm not some type of caped crusader who's job is to go out and look for Muslims/Asians/Pakistani's who are engaging in illegal activity. If I learn of a crime or have any suspicions - I would report it regardless of race just like the next man.

good to hear., but then......

zuby84 said:

To squarely lay all the blame at the community as a whole (and in effect all Pakistani's/Muslims) for this is a bit self-defeating IMO. It will only make the community yet more insular and less willing to report crime.

Sooooo, if I read you correctly, the Pakistani Muslim community might feel justified in not reporting child abuse if other communities get a bit angry about the child abuse some of its members commit? The issue for the other communities ( and the reason why SOME people point the figure of shame at the whole Pakistani Muslim community is PRECISELY because it seems that the reputation of your community is more important to you ( the community) than protecting vulnerable kids

zuby84 said:

Of course there will be situations where a criminal is "harboured" by family/friends, but name me situations where this isn't the case. Add in the aspect of "sex" and the taboo that may still be present for the women in finding out that their husbands/sons have been sexually abusing someone; it might not be as easy "to go to the police" for fear of losing face/pride as it may be for me or you. There will also be other cultural things at play here.

So now you are constructing a"cultural scenario" in which the PM community might not report abuse. Is this not PRECISELY the point that so many people have been making on these threads? You and others have been flinging the R bomb around as soon as anyone suggests that cultural or religious influences might be playing a part in the actions of these men, and the actions of elements within the community in covering it up...yet here you are basically accepting the same points!

zuby84 said:

There are big problems with integration and it needs proper discussion, but I really think that the extremists on both sides are fanning the flames in questionable tit-for-tat battles down to the bottom - that is why I get so uptight about generalisations.

Thats alright Zuby, you just keep focussing on the important stuff like making sure that everyone gets the blame rather than those actually committing the abuse. Just focus on frothing on about the generalisations you perceive are the real issue here rather than dealing with the horrific crimes being committed. Way to go!

[goldblum]

zuby84 said:

Some people really are trying too hard to infer a "cover-up."

No need to simper. My comment was an observation, any inferred meanings have been subject to your wild imagination and paranoia.

[gpo746]

When I read those names in the Birmingham thing I must say I was really glad that they didn't remotely sound like Asian sounding names as I would have hated to jump to conclusions.
Abuse of young predominantly white girls by gangs and groups of Asian men is something that reflects badly on all the community you see, and it's high time we took positive steps to make sure that all the community is involved in this.
Mind you the "swagger crowd" of predominantly Asian men in Edgebaston do try to get all the community involved, usually it seems by renting out the girls.

Oh and lay off Zuby 84 he is lovely, pragmatio, well balanced and is unlike many of us able to see that the sacrifice of some white trash females is much better than blaming one part of society.

[WinstonWolf]

zuby84 said:

dudleybloke said:

No zube i was on about the specific people in the article that was posted.

Its a no nonce-sense attitude.

Yes, but as I understand from reading the article - they are "innocent"* no? Do they not have a right to be worried about their safety, just as I or you have a right not to have our cars vandalised or racially taunted no matter what we look like or where we come from.

My bigger "fans" on here know that I'm a Muslim. I'm not a single bit like these animals and neither are any of the other Muslims I know. I'm not some type of caped crusader who's job is to go out and look for Muslims/Asians/Pakistani's who are engaging in illegal activity. If I learn of a crime or have any suspicions - I would report it regardless of race just like the next man. Am I guilty? Can I not be worried about if my 10 year old sister, mother or gran are going to be racially abused as they have been subjected to in the past. Are we "they"? Do we deserve punishment and to be looking over our shoulder because other Muslims/Pakistani's have done terrible things? I'm a normal person - I was at the football on Friday along with 8 of my Pakistani cousins supporting Scotland playing against Ireland and again yesterday when we played England. We didn't go to the pub before and we didn't have a bacon sandwich; but does that really matter? I wasn't any less teary-eyed than the White Scot next to me whilst singing The Flower of Scotland.

To squarely lay all the blame at the community as a whole (and in effect all Pakistani's/Muslims) for this is a bit self-defeating IMO. It will only make the community yet more insular and less willing to report crime. We need to reverse that trend - not support it. Of course there will be situations where a criminal is "harboured" by family/friends, but name me situations where this isn't the case. Add in the aspect of "sex" and the taboo that may still be present for the women in finding out that their husbands/sons have been sexually abusing someone; it might not be as easy "to go to the police" for fear of losing face/pride as it may be for me or you. There will also be other cultural things at play here.

There are big problems with integration and it needs proper discussion, but I really think that the extremists on both sides are fanning the flames in questionable tit-for-tat battles down to the bottom - that is why I get so uptight about generalisations. Believe me; just like most Humans - most Pakistani's/Asians/Muslims just largely want to get on with their lives and are decent people. I also am aware that we don't have quite as much of a problem up here in Scotland as you do down South, but still doesn't detract away from the point.

I can forgive you for being Muslim, but a Scottish bawbag?


The problem is the word integration. For far too long it is us, the indigenous population who have been asked to bend over backwards and accept alien customs, some of which are worse than those which we already have. Sharia? No place in a civilised society.

For me it boils down to this. Would you like to live in Pakistan but without the sunshine? Most of it is a sthole, do we really want to emulate that here? I for one don't.

[Digga]

I think immigrants to the UK who want to live a culturally separate life can expect to be tolerated. However, when their isolation is combined with a clear correlation to criminal activity, inflicted on the rest of the population, by elements within their community, they cannot expect to avoid scrutiny and criticism unless they themselves take the most rigorous stance of all against the criminals.