another abuse gang

[zuby84]

andymadmak said:

So now you are constructing a"cultural scenario" in which the PM community might not report abuse. Is this not PRECISELY the point that so many people have been making on these threads? You and others have been flinging the R bomb around as soon as anyone suggests that cultural or religious influences might be playing a part in the actions of these men, and the actions of elements within the community in covering it up...yet here you are basically accepting the same points!

I'm sorry, it's a bit more complicated than that. One can bring up difficult to raise points without seeming to be racist. They are not mutually exclusive situations. Condoning some type of "collective punishment" for all the community crosses the line I feel; you might disagree however. I have illustrated how to tackle this issue without "being racist" on the previous page. However if you really do become easily offended, accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being an apologist for these "dirty animals" and think that ALL Pakistani's are equally as guilty as the next then in my eyes you're a racist (no one here I hope.) The "we can't say what we want for fear of getting called racist" meme some of you have going on here is quite funny actually. You are able to discuss this in a grown-up manner without being seen to be racist; your meme is an easy way out that leads itself to lazy arguments.

For the record; I think this is mainly cultural and not a religious issue. But hey what do I know? As an example a backwater idiot on Pakistan might think that the reason there are so many deaths by drink driving here is because of your religion (after all you drink wine in church!??!). Both you and me know that's not true; it's a culture thing and whilst religion has had it's part to play in culture; the two are often at odds with one another. There's backwater idiots in all countries and this country is no exception.

I suppose, it boils down to just who you think is guilty in this situation. The perpetrators, their family, their friends (all of whom may or may not have known about it) or do we blame every single Pakistani out there and hope the community suffers? There are multiple nuances and intricacies at play here - something which no one person will fully understand.

Gpo's last sarcastic sentence really sums up the kind of people you need to stifle if you are wanting to be taken seriously. If you don't I'm afraid you'll be playing the "reverse racism card" for a long long time.

Edited by zuby84 on Thursday 20th November 10:17

[RobGT81]

Amazing that the plod want to protect the private lives, family lives and human rights of these third world scum bags. Bad day for the Police. It's what these Pakistani men get up to in private that is the issue in the first place!!

[RobGT81]

zuby84 said:

For the record; I think this is mainly cultural and not a religious issue. But hey what do I know? As an example a backwater idiot on Pakistan might think that the reason there are so many deaths by drink driving here is because of your religion (after all you drink wine in church!??!). Both you and me know that's not true; it's a culture thing and whilst religion has had it's part to play in culture; the two are often at odds with one another. There's backwater idiots in all countries and this country is no exception.

Edited by zuby84 on Thursday 20th November 10:17

So will the Pakistani community bring out videos, talks, adverts on telly, billboards etc etc about why the community shouldn't be raping white children? The silence is deafening.

[andymadmak]

zuby84 said:

andymadmak said:

So now you are constructing a"cultural scenario" in which the PM community might not report abuse. Is this not PRECISELY the point that so many people have been making on these threads? You and others have been flinging the R bomb around as soon as anyone suggests that cultural or religious influences might be playing a part in the actions of these men, and the actions of elements within the community in covering it up...yet here you are basically accepting the same points!

I'm sorry, it's a bit more complicated than that. One can bring up difficult to raise points without seeming to be racist. They are not mutually exclusive situations. Condoning some type of "collective punishment" for all the community crosses the line I feel; you might disagree however. I have illustrated how to tackle this issue without "being racist" on the previous page. However if you really do become easily offended, accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being an apologist for these "dirty animals" and think that ALL Pakistani's are equally as guilty as the next then in my eyes you're a racist (no one here I hope.) The "we can't say what we want for fear of getting called racist" meme some of you have going on here is quite funny actually. You are able to discuss this in a grown-up manner without being seen to be racist; your meme is an easy way out that leads itself to lazy arguments.

For the record; I think this is mainly cultural and not a religious issue. But hey what do I know? As an example a backwater idiot on Pakistan might think that the reason there are so many deaths by drink driving here is because of your religion (after all you drink wine in church!??!). Both you and me know that's not true; it's a culture thing and whilst religion has had it's part to play in culture; the two are often at odds with one another. There's backwater idiots in all countries and this country is no exception.

I suppose, it boils down to just who you think is guilty in this situation. The perpetrators, their family, their friends (all of whom may or may not have known about it) or do we blame every single Pakistani out there and hope the community suffers? There are multiple nuances and intricacies at play here - something which no one person will fully understand.

Gpo's last sarcastic sentence really sums up the kind of people you need to stifle if you are wanting to be taken seriously. If you don't I'm afraid you'll be playing the "reverse racism card" for a long long time.

Edited by zuby84 on Thursday 20th November 10:17

aaaaaaaaand there you go again. Who has talked about collective punishments? Who has blamed the whole community? Who has said that ALL Pakistani Muslim males are involved in these crimes? No one, but of course you know that, so you are constructing an entirely specious argument.

[zuby84]

WinstonWolf said:

I can forgive you for being Muslim, but a Scottish bawbag?

The problem is the word integration. For far too long it is us, the indigenous population who have been asked to bend over backwards and accept alien customs, some of which are worse than those which we already have. Sharia? No place in a civilised society.

For me it boils down to this. Would you like to live in Pakistan but without the sunshine? Most of it is a sthole, do we really want to emulate that here? I for one don't.

I don't know anyone who wants a fully "Sharia Law" system here in the UK and I think the people who are do are in the tiny minority. Yes there are some people who want to only eat halal food and not to drink alcohol. There are others who want Islamic banking so they have the illusion of not paying any interest. There might be some who write their will in accordance with "Sharia law" [whatever that may be.] Sharia law also states that you should give a certain percentage of your net worth to charity every year. It doesn't mean that public beheadings are coming to the UK because the law society gave some guidance on how to make an "Islamic/Sharia will." I think like in every religion; people pick and chose what religious rules they want to follow and you can bet your bottom dollar that most Muslim don't want to live in a country like Saudi Arabia/Iran etc...

[WinstonWolf]

zuby84 said:

WinstonWolf said:

I can forgive you for being Muslim, but a Scottish bawbag?

The problem is the word integration. For far too long it is us, the indigenous population who have been asked to bend over backwards and accept alien customs, some of which are worse than those which we already have. Sharia? No place in a civilised society.

For me it boils down to this. Would you like to live in Pakistan but without the sunshine? Most of it is a sthole, do we really want to emulate that here? I for one don't.

I don't know anyone who wants a fully "Sharia Law" system here in the UK and I think the people who are do are in the tiny minority. Yes there are some people who want to only eat halal food and not to drink alcohol. There are others who want Islamic banking so they have the illusion of not paying any interest. There might be some who write their will in accordance with "Sharia law" [whatever that may be.] Sharia law also states that you should give a certain percentage of your net worth to charity every year. It doesn't mean that public beheadings are coming to the UK because the law society gave some guidance on how to make an "Islamic/Sharia will." I think like in every religion; people pick and chose what religious rules they want to follow and you can bet your bottom dollar that most Muslim don't want to live in a country like Saudi Arabia/Iran etc...

My concern is that the minority are trying to drag us screaming and kicking towards a cold wet version of Saudia Arabia. That cannot be good for anyone.

[zuby84]

WinstonWolf said:

My concern is that the minority are trying to drag us screaming and kicking towards a cold wet version of Saudia Arabia. That cannot be good for anyone.

Of course it's not, I don't want to live in a place like Saudi Arabia and I don't know who would*. Thankfully the "extremists" are more often than not - disproportionately "shoutey" and it might sometimes seem like a bigger danger than it actually is.

Actually just learned yesterday that one of my white female friends is going out there to work - madness I think but hey ho.

[RobGT81]

zuby84 said:

Actually just learned yesterday that one of my white female friends is going out there to work - madness I think but hey ho.

Perhaps she's more concerned about being raped by a Pakistani Muslim in the UK?

[zuby84]

Guam said:

Interesting twist here, what do we think of this ruling?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2841225/Fu...

It's a difficult one - I'm all for naming and shaming people who have committed crimes (especially sexual crimes against children), but I can see it from the Police's and family's point of view also.

I think on balance that the names should be publicised after being found guilty. By them "bringing shame on the family" might make other people think twice about engaging in vile acts in the future. Short term pain, long term gain kind of scenario.

[WinstonWolf]

zuby84 said:

WinstonWolf said:

My concern is that the minority are trying to drag us screaming and kicking towards a cold wet version of Saudia Arabia. That cannot be good for anyone.

Of course it's not, I don't want to live in a place like Saudi Arabia and I don't know who would*. Thankfully the "extremists" are more often than not - disproportionately "shoutey" and it might sometimes seem like a bigger danger than it actually is.

Actually just learned yesterday that one of my white female friends is going out there to work - madness I think but hey ho.

Unfortunately we all get dragged into it. There's shouty nutters at both ends of the debate, they balance each other out and kinda deserve each other.

My opinion is if you're lucky enough to be British you've actually got a pretty good place to live. Personally I don't want to see it dragged down by a few bad eggs.

I think overall Britain has done it's bit for integration, there are *some* people who need to do a bit more to keep their end of the bargain.

[RobGT81]

zuby84 said:

I think on balance that the names should be publicised after being found guilty. By them "bringing shame on the family" might make other people think twice about engaging in vile acts in the future.

Its a sad state of affairs when the main issue with these Pakistani communities is "bringing shame on the family".

[gruffalo]

zuby84 said:

I suppose, it boils down to just who you think is guilty in this situation. The perpetrators, their family, their friends (all of whom may or may not have known about it) or do we blame every single Pakistani out there and hope the community suffers? There are multiple nuances and intricacies at play here - something which no one person will fully understand.

Edited by zuby84 on Thursday 20th November 10:17

The problem is the deafening silence from the community that feeds the perception that the community is sheltering these low life, end the silence and actively be seen to try and stamp this out, not by chats in the mosque but by using the law of the land and that perception will change.

Then actively integrate into the western ways of the chosen country of residence, learn the language would be a good start in many cases, and I think you will see huge shift in thinking.

Or the community can continue to carry on as it is, when you see community leaders in the press bemoaning that they were not consulted before arrests are made for example is it really surprising that all Muslims get bundled as one community.

These low life have caused all Muslims to have a bit of a problem, there is some bridge building that needs to be done and constantly closing rank and having a sub community based on religion within the greater community (that is the UK, England or what ever) is only going to be divisive and cause mistrust.

[Mr_B]

RobGT81 said:

zuby84 said:

I think on balance that the names should be publicised after being found guilty. By them "bringing shame on the family" might make other people think twice about engaging in vile acts in the future.

Its a sad state of affairs when the main issue with these Pakistani communities is "bringing shame on the family".

Is "bringing shame on the familiy " code for advocating the honour killing of them ? Just asking.

[Mermaid]

zuby84 said:

Of course it's not, I don't want to live in a place like Saudi Arabia and I don't know who would*. Thankfully the "extremists" are more often than not - disproportionately "shoutey" and it might sometimes seem like a bigger danger than it actually is.

.

Saudis - a cancer to peaceful/religious harmony. Their influence looms large here.

Bigger danger than it is? Tipping point not far away.

Zuby, how about you mount PR campaign to extol the virtues of Pakistani Muslims for they do seem to be getting a lot of bad press.

A sad, sad situation -education, education and more education but the right education for this country.

[irocfan]

named, shamed and NOT pixilated

[dudleybloke]

WinstonWolf said:

I can forgive you for being Muslim, but a Scottish bawbag?

Mchammed?

[carinaman]

dudleybloke said:

WinstonWolf said:

I can forgive you for being Muslim, but a Scottish bawbag?

Mchammed?

Mchammed Where's Your Troosers?

[RobGT81]

carinaman said:

Mchammed Where's Your Troosers?

Honest Officer, they didn't just drop off when the 15 year old white slut turned up.

[Mermaid]

RobGT81 said:

carinaman said:

Mchammed Where's Your Troosers?

Honest Officer, they didn't just drop off when the 15 year old white slut turned up.

Sad stereotype, but too many incidents now. is there a national spokesperson for UK Muslims? Warsi? Malala?

[Mermaid]

RobGT81 said:

carinaman said:

Mchammed Where's Your Troosers?

Honest Officer, they didn't just drop off when the 15 year old white slut turned up.

Canadian take on this:


A Canadian female liberal wrote a lot of letters to the Canadian government, complaining about the treatment of captive insurgents (terrorists) being held in Afghanistan National Correctional System facilities. She demanded a response to her letter. She received back the following reply:
National Defense Headquarters
M Gen George R. Pearkes Bldg., 15 NT
101 Colonel By Drive
Ottawa , ON K1A 0K2
Canada

Dear Concerned Citizen,
Thank you for your recent letter expressing your profound concern of treatment of the Taliban and Al Qaeda terrorists captured by Canadian Forces, who were subsequently transferred to the Afghanistan Government and are currently being held by Afghan officials in Afghanistan National Correctional System facilities.

Our administration takes these matters seriously and your opinions were heard loud and clear here in Ottawa . You will be pleased to learn, thanks to the concerns of citizens like yourself, we are creating a new department here at the Department of National Defense, to be called 'Liberals Accept Responsibility for Killers' program, or L.A.R.K. for short.

In accordance with the guidelines of this new program, we have decided, on a trial basis, to divert several terrorists and place them in homes of concerned citizens such as yourself, around the country, under those citizens personal care. Your personal detainee has been selected and is scheduled for transportation under heavily armed guard to your residence in Toronto next Monday.
Ali Mohammed Ahmed bin Mahmud is your detainee, and is to be cared for pursuant to the standards you personally demanded in your letter of complaint. You will be pleased to know that we will conduct weekly inspections to ensure that your standards of care for Ahmed are commensurate with your recommendations.

Although Ahmed is a sociopath and extremely violent, we hope that your sensitivity to what you described as his 'attitudinal problem' will help him overcome those character flaws. Perhaps you are correct in describing these problems as mere cultural differences. We understand that you plan to offer counseling and home schooling, however, we strongly recommend that you hire some assistant caretakers.

Please advise any Jewish friends, neighbours or relatives about your house guest, as he might get agitated or even violent, but we are sure you can reason with him. He is also expert at making a wide variety of explosive devices from common household products, so you may wish to keep those items locked up, unless in your opinion, this might offend him. Your adopted terrorist is extremely proficient in hand-to-hand combat and can extinguish human life with such simple items as a pencil or nail clippers. We advise that you do not ask him to demonstrate these skills either in your home or wherever you choose to take him while helping him adjust to life in our country.

Ahmed will not wish to interact with you or your daughters except sexually, since he views females as a form of property, thereby having no rights, including refusal of his sexual demands. This is a particularly sensitive subject for him.

You also should know that he has shown violent tendencies around women who fail to comply with the dress code that he will recommend as more appropriate attire. I'm sure you will come to enjoy the anonymity offered by the burka over time. Just remember that it is all part of 'respecting his culture and religious beliefs' as described in your letter.

You take good care of Ahmed and remember that we will try to have a counselor available to help you over any difficulties you encounter while Ahmed is adjusting to Canadian culture.
Thanks again for your concern. We truly appreciate it when folks like you keep us informed of the proper way to do our job and care for our fellow man. Good luck and God bless you.

Cordially,
Gordon O'Connor
Minister of National Defense