Koenigsegg. The unloved super car?

[LotusOmega375D]

Nothing interesting to add apart from the fact they always remind me of B2 Stealth bombers. Anyway here's a photo of a pair at the Cholmondely PoP 2 or 3 years ago.

[Vocal Minority]

F1GTRUeno said:

Tonnes of claims to be the fastest car in the world but only once have they proved it. They also sound st.

So they are the fastest car in the world, surely you only need to prove it once?

[Harji]

LuS1fer said:

Harji said:

I think they need to race (and also the Pagini's, would love to see GT racing with them involved) to get the same Kudos as they just don't have the presence of the other supercars.

I diagree. I don't think much kudos comes from racing these days because it's very expensive and generally done by privateers. It was different back in the 50s adn 60s when they were pushing boundaries and innovating but safety regs now largely dictate what can and can't be done and there can be no doubting the ability of the Pagani which doubtless got more kudos from Top Gear.

The Formula 1 thing always bewilders me too. Why would I buy a road car based on whether the company race F1 cars?

I think rallying had more relavance to most manufacturers but that seems to have died the death and really, would anyone actually buy a Chevrolet despite the participation (and success???) in BTCC.

Publicity is good but any publicity will do.

Which makes it harder for a company with zilch presence to sell a car. I think a few races, a Le Mans GT entry, whatever happens , will generate publicity. If that publicity leads two a couple of sales then it would have worked.

As for the F1 thing. Red Bull are pushing the Infinity name, therefore more people are hearing about Infiniti cars, the mouths must be watering at Mercedes the sort of commercial tie up with Hamilton. I can see he being an ambassador at the very least for the high performance models.

It's Renault I can't understand, pioneers of Turbo F1 cars, multiple championship winners, suppliers of engines to Red Bull but seem to do nothing about telling anyone about it!

Edited by Harji on Thursday 10th January 13:46

[Tom73]

Harji said:

LuS1fer said:

Harji said:

I think they need to race (and also the Pagini's, would love to see GT racing with them involved) to get the same Kudos as they just don't have the presence of the other supercars.

I diagree. I don't think much kudos comes from racing these days because it's very expensive and generally done by privateers. It was different back in the 50s adn 60s when they were pushing boundaries and innovating but safety regs now largely dictate what can and can't be done and there can be no doubting the ability of the Pagani which doubtless got more kudos from Top Gear.

The Formula 1 thing always bewilders me too. Why would I buy a road car based on whether the company race F1 cars?

I think rallying had more relavance to most manufacturers but that seems to have died the death and really, would anyone actually buy a Chevrolet despite the participation (and success???) in BTCC.

Publicity is good but any publicity will do.

Which makes it harder for a company with zilch presence to sell a car. I think a few races, a Le Mans GT entry, whatever happens , will generate publicity. If that publicity leads two a couple of sales then it would have worked.

As for the F1 thing. Red Bull are pushing the Infinity name, therefore more people are hearing about Infiniti cars, the mouths must be watering at Mercedes the sort of commercial tie up with Hamilton. I can see he being an ambassador at the very least for the high performance models.

It's Renault I can't understand, pioneers of Turbo F1 cars, multiple championship winners, suppliers of engines to Red Bull but seem to do nothing about telling anyone about it!

Edited by Harji on Thursday 10th January 13:46

There are a lot of hoops to jump through before you get to race and if you're not welcomed into the big boys club they'll simply switch the rules on you to ensure you get the message. You can only play as a small company as long as your car doesn't stand a chance to win against the big boys. Historically there's been no quicker way to drown a small company than trying to keep up with politics and PR whether it's racing or production. You don't make a power move unless they've allowed you to make one...


They did attempt to race it though mind you. The Koenigsegg CCGT weighed just under 1000 kg so they had 100 kg of ballast to place anywhere in the car and the low drag would've made the most out of the N/A V8. Unfortunately for them FIA during development of the car decided to change to rules to exclude small volume manufacturers in GT1. It's a little bit sad considering it would've been 150 kgs lighter and had a lower drag coefficient at the same power levels (they were a little above 600 hp and the goal was 650 bhp) as the massively superior MC12 GT1. And those were yesterdays tech from the CCR. Even with todays standards it's nearly 100 kgs lighter and only 100-140 hp short of the Zonda R on a N/A V8 with a significantly better drag coefficient in it's base body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6ffIZvXLDI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi1A38QVQyk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kcz1MPOTZOg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbjSC-fDC-c


In the early days back at the old factory they even had plans to race a Koenigsegg LMP on a Koenigsegg redesigned Carlo Chiti Motori Moderni F1 flat-12 (contrary to popular belief this is not the monumental Subaru/Motori Moderni 1235 failure that was scrapped along with the Coloni/Subaru team midway into the 1990 season due to the engine being underpowered, overweight and highly unreliable; but a new iteration that sought to fix the issues of the 1235. It was newer used as Carlo Chiti and his company with him died in 1994). The wind tunnel tests for the car was in full spin and they own the patents and machining tools for the engine so they're more than capable of churning out a monster with a flat-12 if the plans didn't go up in flames with the old factory.

Car and engine:

http://youtu.be/ooGx-NB2-Qo?t=2m19s

Here's what it'd looked like in the car (MB C291 with a flat M291):



The original Subaru/Motori Moderni 1235:





I'd loved to see what it could've been with Koenigsegg's trickery added to the mix. If not for anything else they should build a low volume special edition Koenigsegg Carlo Chiti with the flat-12 just for the historical value of having the man's final creation made.

[vincegail]

Thank you for that!
I knew about the Flat 12, but thought it was meant to be in a roadcar. Never knew about a LMP project.

[Tom73]

Triplex suspension explained via Drive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbgjRBT4ltM

Love it or hate it that is just wonderful.

Here's one that explains the basic principles of the anti-squat damper/heave spring and Z-style antiroll bar a little bit better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwYybcpBeZI

Edited by Tom73 on Wednesday 16th January 14:38

[F1GTRUeno]

Vocal Minority said:

F1GTRUeno said:

Tonnes of claims to be the fastest car in the world but only once have they proved it. They also sound st.

So they are the fastest car in the world, surely you only need to prove it once?

Well until they get surpassed by other cars and then claim the new ones are faster without ever proving it.

[Tom73]

F1GTRUeno said:

Vocal Minority said:

F1GTRUeno said:

Tonnes of claims to be the fastest car in the world but only once have they proved it. They also sound st.

So they are the fastest car in the world, surely you only need to prove it once?

Well until they get surpassed by other cars and then claim the new ones are faster without ever proving it.

Define "fastest" and "faster"? If you mean top speed they've never "claimed" anything. They have a theoretical top speed and a world record in 0-300-0 km/h.

[DanielSan]

I'd buy one over pretty much any other hypercar to be honest just because they're genuinely mad. The Veyron is a numbers exercise, Ferrari's do very little for me, the new Mclaren isn't out yet, so and the Zonda, although better looking, just isn't quite as daft.

[Horse Pop]

Maybe a brand image thing?

I watched that video and was hooked because I can see that guy is an OCD nerd like me.

Definitely on my lottery win list.

But then... is your average supercar/hypercar buyer someone who finds this appealing?

Edited by Horse Pop on Wednesday 16th January 15:27

[pthelazyjourno]

It's difficult to brag about a car who's name you can't pronounce! I suspect that doesn't help...

Nor the lack of history, badge etc. Pagini has done well, but it's in an extreme minority, and suspect most people would still opt for an established name above a Zonda too.

[caraddict]

pthelazyjourno said:

Nor the lack of history, badge etc. Pagini has done well, but it's in an extreme minority, and suspect most people would still opt for an established name above a Zonda too.

Please. Pagani is a level above Ferrari. Anyone can have a Ferrari if they work for it, almost no one can afford a Pagani no matter how hard they try.

[david_b]

pthelazyjourno said:

It's difficult to brag about a car who's name you can't pronounce! I suspect that doesn't help...

You're better off putting your money into a Huayra then

[Tom73]

Latest from the Drive series. Million-Dollar Paint Job:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-IYh8Ln0wQ

[rj1986]

Just in case anyone finds some change down back of the sofa
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/k...

[vincegail]

Only 600 miles. But all of them in town: London, Paris, Cannes, Monte Carlo.
I'd rather buy a new one.

[vincegail]

Part 4 of 9, the interior:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpIQI-YtMsA

Edit: mostly shine-through buttons and the steering wheel. Didn't see much of the interior all together.

Edited by vincegail on Wednesday 30th January 11:31

[Streetrod]

Over on Teamspeed.com the Koenigsegg boys have actually joined the forum so now you can talk and ask questions of them directly, add this to the videos on the Drive channel and it appears Koenigsegg are starting to take PR a lot more seriously which is something I have campaigned for years and is only a good thing, but I take no credit for this

The recent top speed and circuit time wars could if Koenigsegg are not careful undo a lot of their recent hard work. The Venom GT has recently taken their 0-300KPH record and they are claiming the GT will go over 270MPH, we wait to see if that is true. Then you throw in the very unexpected Top Gear circuit record for the Huayra and Koenigsegg have to be worried as they have always promoted their cars on how fast they were.

At the moment the Agera R is not scheduled to post a TG or Ring lap time according to their comments over on Teamspeed, so what do they do now?

Well If I was them this is what my thought process would be. I would only submit the Agera R for a TG test if I was certain it was going to beat the Pagani, the negative publicity could be too damaging if they were slower. The other problem with this is timing. At the moment the Pagani is at the top of pile and they are celebrating that fact. But with the forthcoming McLaren P1 and Ferrari F150 already claiming to be a lot faster the current TG record is unlikely to last until the middle of the summer. So unless Koenigsegg get in there now they could miss the boat on any good PR.

So that leaves a possible Ring time. Pagani have yet to post one but their form following the TG test looks good. Would it not be a good time now for the Agera R to post a record Ring time now therefore beat the Pagani to the punch and before it is put out of reach by say the P1 which McLaren are already claiming will be faster around any track than any current road car?

This situation again highlights that Pagani have played a bit of a PR blinder here love them or hate them. They have let independent magazines, video blogs and tests promote their car rather than make any claims beforehand, the result, numerous awards and probably the second most important lap time from a PR point of view you could wish for, some may claim the most important.

[Carl_Docklands]

Why are they un-loved?

It is down to image and they only have themselves to blame.

Look at the state of the factory built Agera in this months evo, Purple with gold plated interior fittings.

[firemanSimon]

Carl_Docklands said:

Why are they un-loved?

It is down to image and they only have themselves to blame.

Look at the state of the factory built Agera in this months evo, Purple with gold plated interior fittings.

Oh so you think they should refuse to build a car for a customer based on YOUR personal taste! If i spent 1m+ on a super car i would expect it painted whatever color i wanted.
bellend!

Edited by firemanSimon on Wednesday 30th January 13:51