Discussion
Never had a problem with this before from employees but one of our best guys is kicking up a bit of a stink and I need to know what we can do...
We ask that everyone works an additional 30 mins per day in January and February as it is our busiest period for which they are paid overtime at time and a quarter. This is company wide, including finance and HR depts who help out answering email enquiries sent to our sales team in this time. One of my guys asked last week to not do this, which I agreed to as I thought it was just for one night. He has just emailed me saying he will no longer be doing the overtime and just working his normal hours.
Am I right in thinking that as his contract is a bit ambiguously worded ("You may be required to work additional hours, for which you will be paid, when the business requires it") that we can't really do anything? I do not like making threats, especially when I don't know the legal position, and he is one of the best guys in my team so I would like to keep him happy but I can imagine it's going to cause resentment amongst other staff who are being "forced" to work the additional 30 mins when he swans off at 17.30.
I am going to sit him down for a chat to explain why we ask everyone to do this in the morning but he knows he's well thought of by myself and other management and I think he may mention something along the lines of how much additional work he does/revenue he generates and he should be exempt from the additional 30 mins.
Apologies for any typos, on the train!
We ask that everyone works an additional 30 mins per day in January and February as it is our busiest period for which they are paid overtime at time and a quarter. This is company wide, including finance and HR depts who help out answering email enquiries sent to our sales team in this time. One of my guys asked last week to not do this, which I agreed to as I thought it was just for one night. He has just emailed me saying he will no longer be doing the overtime and just working his normal hours.
Am I right in thinking that as his contract is a bit ambiguously worded ("You may be required to work additional hours, for which you will be paid, when the business requires it") that we can't really do anything? I do not like making threats, especially when I don't know the legal position, and he is one of the best guys in my team so I would like to keep him happy but I can imagine it's going to cause resentment amongst other staff who are being "forced" to work the additional 30 mins when he swans off at 17.30.
I am going to sit him down for a chat to explain why we ask everyone to do this in the morning but he knows he's well thought of by myself and other management and I think he may mention something along the lines of how much additional work he does/revenue he generates and he should be exempt from the additional 30 mins.
Apologies for any typos, on the train!
His contract allows you to vary his hours. It's not unreasonable..... Have a chat with him, is there a problem he's not disclosing?
If he point blank refuses, you'll need proper advice before issuing a warning - or whatever. Informal chat first, then consider.
From my own experience as an employer, I'd say this guy has just written himself out of a future with the company. Whilst this would be illegal to acknowledge or say to him, it's how it is in the world of grown ups!
It's always the employees with the 'can-do' attitude that do well. Those who are truculent and stubborn tend to stay on the bottom rung - even if they're revenue producers.
If he point blank refuses, you'll need proper advice before issuing a warning - or whatever. Informal chat first, then consider.
From my own experience as an employer, I'd say this guy has just written himself out of a future with the company. Whilst this would be illegal to acknowledge or say to him, it's how it is in the world of grown ups!
It's always the employees with the 'can-do' attitude that do well. Those who are truculent and stubborn tend to stay on the bottom rung - even if they're revenue producers.
NDA said:
From my own experience as an employer, I'd say this guy has just written himself out of a future with the company. Whilst this would be illegal to acknowledge or say to him, it's how it is in the world of grown ups!
There is no way this was the first thing I thought when I got his email...Thanks for your response, it's what I was hoping for - I didn't think I was being unreasonable.
You can force him to vary the hours via that wording in the contract... but if he's one of your best guys then you're going to need to very carefully weigh up whether its worth forcing him. That could lead to him just walking out (if he's one of your best guys he's not going to have a problem getting a job anywhere else), or it could lead to him just losing interest in the job and you losing money.
On the other hand if you let him not do those 30 mins the risk is it causes resentment with your other staff - so basically you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
On the other hand if you let him not do those 30 mins the risk is it causes resentment with your other staff - so basically you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
The contract would allow you to insist on the employee working additional hours, subject always to the maximum hours under the Working Time Regulations, and any opt out from the maximum agreed by the employee. An opt out is terminable on notice (minimum 7 days, max 3 months if so stipulated by the employer).
Anyway, talk to the employee and try to find an agreed solution to the problem.
Anyway, talk to the employee and try to find an agreed solution to the problem.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 23 January 22:29
Cheers for the replies guys.
I will be having an informal chat over lunch with him tomorrow. He's a really good worker and we are also quite friendly and usually go for a few beers once a week together as well.
He was quite resentful of doing the extra hours last year, I'm pretty sure part of the reason is that we're "making" him work the hours and it's pissing him off, he can be a bit alpha male/territorial sometimes.
To answer other questions:
- He lives a 5 minutes walk from the office and is 28/29, no kids and no responsibilites apart from rent on his flat so it's no child/transport issues for working an extra 30 mins.
- I've already said to him just to take 30 mins less lunch (he gets an hour) if he wants to leave "on time" but he either goes to the gym/home/pub every lunch and likes his hour away.
I don't want him to go, I am a bit annoyed at his attitude, hopefully I can resolve this tomorrow without having to take it any further.
I will be having an informal chat over lunch with him tomorrow. He's a really good worker and we are also quite friendly and usually go for a few beers once a week together as well.
He was quite resentful of doing the extra hours last year, I'm pretty sure part of the reason is that we're "making" him work the hours and it's pissing him off, he can be a bit alpha male/territorial sometimes.
To answer other questions:
- He lives a 5 minutes walk from the office and is 28/29, no kids and no responsibilites apart from rent on his flat so it's no child/transport issues for working an extra 30 mins.
- I've already said to him just to take 30 mins less lunch (he gets an hour) if he wants to leave "on time" but he either goes to the gym/home/pub every lunch and likes his hour away.
I don't want him to go, I am a bit annoyed at his attitude, hopefully I can resolve this tomorrow without having to take it any further.
He's on commission and, having already hit his target for the month a week ago, he is now on double what he would usually earn, per unit. As such, even if he didn't care about the company and its success, you'd think he'd want to be doing that extra bit of work to really increase his own pay packet. You can't fault his drive, he's always on time, always doing more than he needs to, it's just this additional 30 mins that seems to be a sticking point.
BrabusMog said:
He's on commission and, having already hit his target for the month a week ago, he is now on double what he would usually earn, per unit. As such, even if he didn't care about the company and its success, you'd think he'd want to be doing that extra bit of work to really increase his own pay packet. You can't fault his drive, he's always on time, always doing more than he needs to, it's just this additional 30 mins that seems to be a sticking point.
If he is already hitting his target then is his "overtime" being taxed at the higher rate? If so he might not think it is worth the effort for starters rather than a wonderful increase in his pay packet.IN fact, if he is the highest earner in the team would someone else want the chance to work an hour to day for the extra?
Just a different viewpoint - certainly need to ask him why he doesn't want to do the 30 mins a day. But yes his contract does allow such a variation it seems, so you really have to decide just how worth it the hassle could be.
I can see your point re lunch but we'd already planned to go today and I thought it might be a bit better to have a chat then instead of calling him into one of the offices.
With regards to taxation, I hadn't thought about that, it could be a factor I guess - he is quite meticulous when it comes to planning his finances from what I know of him.
The simple fact of the matter is that we like to turn queries around within 24 hours whilst keeping responses as high-quality as possible, therefore we just ask everyone to do an additional 30 mins of emails at the end of the day for these 2 months. In fact, it got quieter towards the middle of Feb last year so we stopped asking people to do it unless they volunteered. All the team have hit their sales target and earned a decent level of commission for the last 12 months as it is, this guy just pushes on a bit more usually as his conversion rates are about 15-20% higher than anyone else.
I'm starting to think he might be thinking about leaving.
With regards to taxation, I hadn't thought about that, it could be a factor I guess - he is quite meticulous when it comes to planning his finances from what I know of him.
The simple fact of the matter is that we like to turn queries around within 24 hours whilst keeping responses as high-quality as possible, therefore we just ask everyone to do an additional 30 mins of emails at the end of the day for these 2 months. In fact, it got quieter towards the middle of Feb last year so we stopped asking people to do it unless they volunteered. All the team have hit their sales target and earned a decent level of commission for the last 12 months as it is, this guy just pushes on a bit more usually as his conversion rates are about 15-20% higher than anyone else.
I'm starting to think he might be thinking about leaving.
BrabusMog said:
Cheers for the replies guys.
- He lives a 5 minutes walk from the office and is 28/29, no kids and no responsibilites apart from rent on his flat so it's no child/transport issues for working an extra 30 mins.
- I've already said to him just to take 30 mins less lunch (he gets an hour) if he wants to leave "on time" but he either goes to the gym/home/pub every lunch and likes his hour away.
I don't want him to go, I am a bit annoyed at his attitude, hopefully I can resolve this tomorrow without having to take it any further.
Hmmmmm sounds like a real team player!! "I dont want to work the extra 30 mins but oh I couldn't possibly cut into my lunch time"! Has he heard of meeting you half way? No matter how good he is, no matter how much you like him, NOBODY is bigger than the company or the team. Which to be honest it sounds like he thinks he is. Best sales man, boss's pal. - He lives a 5 minutes walk from the office and is 28/29, no kids and no responsibilites apart from rent on his flat so it's no child/transport issues for working an extra 30 mins.
- I've already said to him just to take 30 mins less lunch (he gets an hour) if he wants to leave "on time" but he either goes to the gym/home/pub every lunch and likes his hour away.
I don't want him to go, I am a bit annoyed at his attitude, hopefully I can resolve this tomorrow without having to take it any further.
I would have a one way interview with no tea and biscuits, oh and it would be after work!
Whatever else happens remind him that he can be replaced or you are making a rod for your own back.
sunoco69 said:
Hmmmmm sounds like a real team player!! "I dont want to work the extra 30 mins but oh I couldn't possibly cut into my lunch time"! Has he heard of meeting you half way? No matter how good he is, no matter how much you like him, NOBODY is bigger than the company or the team. Which to be honest it sounds like he thinks he is. Best sales man, boss's pal.
I would have a one way interview with no tea and biscuits, oh and it would be after work!
Whatever else happens remind him that he can be replaced or you are making a rod for your own back.
And he will f'off to pastures new...I would have a one way interview with no tea and biscuits, oh and it would be after work!
Whatever else happens remind him that he can be replaced or you are making a rod for your own back.
Has he got prospects in his current position as hitting your targets is ok but he may be looking at the bigger picture at his age.
andyleesy said:
And he will f'off to pastures new...
Has he got prospects in his current position as hitting your targets is ok but he may be looking at the bigger picture at his age.
And the loss is what? Mabye the OP should quit and let this guy run the company? The boss is the boss. He has tried to be understanding but you can only take this liberal hug a hoody crap so far or the OP will lose any respect he has from the rest of the workforce. Has he got prospects in his current position as hitting your targets is ok but he may be looking at the bigger picture at his age.
Some people value a high degree of work/life separation and resent extension of working time. I'm one of them.
I am sympathetic to the problems he is causing, I think a lack of progression could accentuate the attitude, as it would with me.
Could you instigate a policy of waiving the overtime for high achievers in lieu of heavily taxed commission? Reactive, yes, but maintains harmony until you decide the permanent solution.
I am sympathetic to the problems he is causing, I think a lack of progression could accentuate the attitude, as it would with me.
Could you instigate a policy of waiving the overtime for high achievers in lieu of heavily taxed commission? Reactive, yes, but maintains harmony until you decide the permanent solution.
We've previously offered him a supervisory role within another department and laid out a sort of career path for him but he didn't want to take it as he would lose money in commission.
It turns out he's got a new missus which he hadn't told anyone about and she works nights quite a few times a week - he drops her off and she'd be late if he didn't do it
Call me cynical but I think that's a load of s
te and that all he just simply can't be arsed to work the extra 30 mins.
It's a bit of a rock and a hard place scenario, I don't want to lose him/anger him but I also don't want someone to not pull their weight regardless of how well they perceive themselves to do for the company. I told him I expect him to do the extra half an hour, preferably at the end of the day til 18.00 but if he really couldn't manage that then either before work or out of his lunch.
It turns out he's got a new missus which he hadn't told anyone about and she works nights quite a few times a week - he drops her off and she'd be late if he didn't do it
Call me cynical but I think that's a load of ste and that all he just simply can't be arsed to work the extra 30 mins.It's a bit of a rock and a hard place scenario, I don't want to lose him/anger him but I also don't want someone to not pull their weight regardless of how well they perceive themselves to do for the company. I told him I expect him to do the extra half an hour, preferably at the end of the day til 18.00 but if he really couldn't manage that then either before work or out of his lunch.
MotorcyclesFish said:
Some people value a high degree of work/life separation and resent extension of working time. I'm one of them.
I sort of sympathise with him but it is something everyone is asked to do and they get various benefits that none of our competitors would ever offer if they were to work for them. If it was a day here or there it would be tolerable but it's not fair on the other people who give up the extra half an hour, he just sees it as beneath him in my opinion. And we don't keep it a secret, everyone is informed what is expected of them at interview stage.Edited by BrabusMog on Friday 25th January 09:18
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