Richard Dawkins and Rowan Williams debate religion this week
Discussion
ChrisGB said:
Classical theism is provable in entirely rational terms, with no reference to religion / faith / etc. And you expect a straight answer calling it names like that?
What would there be if catholicism were untrue? The answer is: there would be nothing whatsoever in existence. Zilch.
Mmmmm? What would there be if catholicism were untrue? The answer is: there would be nothing whatsoever in existence. Zilch.
ChrisGB, are you on PH only to proselytize? I note that you haven't posted on any subject not related to religion for over a year (or ever?) so what is your purpose, here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn5jiiYRruc
Late last year Dawkins was interviewed by Mehdi Hasan, political editor of UK version of The Huffington Post, at the Oxford Union.
It's an interesting discussion and even though I'm a big Dawkins he struggles on a few points here.
If you have a spare 40 odd minutes then it's worth a watch.
Late last year Dawkins was interviewed by Mehdi Hasan, political editor of UK version of The Huffington Post, at the Oxford Union.
It's an interesting discussion and even though I'm a big Dawkins he struggles on a few points here.
If you have a spare 40 odd minutes then it's worth a watch.
Victor McDade said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn5jiiYRruc
Late last year Dawkins was interviewed by Mehdi Hasan, political editor of UK version of The Huffington Post, at the Oxford Union.
It's an interesting discussion and even though I'm a big Dawkins he struggles on a few points here.
If you have a spare 40 odd minutes then it's worth a watch.
Not at the moment. Could you do a quick run through on the points?Late last year Dawkins was interviewed by Mehdi Hasan, political editor of UK version of The Huffington Post, at the Oxford Union.
It's an interesting discussion and even though I'm a big Dawkins he struggles on a few points here.
If you have a spare 40 odd minutes then it's worth a watch.
ChrisGB said:
What would there be if catholicism were untrue? The answer is: there would be nothing whatsoever in existence. Zilch.
Actually a brief answer is:Babism
Bahá'í Faith
All the christian sects other than Roman.
Druze
Gnosticism
Islam
Judaism
Rastafarian
Black Hebrew Israelites
Mandaeans and Sabians
Samaritanism
Shabakism
Ayyavazhi
Bhakti movement
Buddhism
Din-i-Ilahi
Hinduism
Jainism
Meivazhi
Sikhism
Iranian religions
Manichaeism
Mazdakism
Mithraism
Yazdânism
Zoroastrianism / Parsi
Confucianism
Shinto
Taoism
There are an untold number of other religions, not to mention the recently invented ones such as Scientology and Jedi.
Derek Smith said:
ChrisGB said:
What would there be if catholicism were untrue? The answer is: there would be nothing whatsoever in existence. Zilch.
Actually a brief answer is:Babism
Bahá'í Faith
All the christian sects other than Roman.
Druze
Gnosticism
Islam
Judaism
Rastafarian
Black Hebrew Israelites
Mandaeans and Sabians
Samaritanism
Shabakism
Ayyavazhi
Bhakti movement
Buddhism
Din-i-Ilahi
Hinduism
Jainism
Meivazhi
Sikhism
Iranian religions
Manichaeism
Mazdakism
Mithraism
Yazdânism
Zoroastrianism / Parsi
Confucianism
Shinto
Taoism
There are an untold number of other religions, not to mention the recently invented ones such as Scientology and Jedi.
gadgetmac said:
I've just started reading and watching some of Hitchens stuff. That was one smart cookie in the debating arena.
As Dawkins himself once said "If you are a religious apologist invited to debate with Christopher Hitchens, decline."
I'm not sure Dawkins was necessarily referring solely to Hitchen's debating skills. His style was a trifle aggressive. As Dawkins himself once said "If you are a religious apologist invited to debate with Christopher Hitchens, decline."
He had the easy bit as well. If you believe in, for instance, creationism then you are an easy target, if you don't, then why not? It is, after all, in the bible and such the inspired word of god.
Do you believe in magic? Then you go against the teaching of your church (if christian). If you don't believe in magic, what about the, well, magic in the bible.
There's one bit on YT where Dawkins I think, but it might have been Hitchens, mentioned that when Jesus rose from the dead, so did all the deceased in Israel. He asked whether it was likely that such an unusual event would not have been mentioned in the newspapers of the time. There are, of course, no written records of this noteworthy event. You'd have thought someone would have mentioned it.
Easy targets often: I mean, Ann Widdicombe.
His books, or at least two of them, were rather preachy I thought. There was a condescending tone which is not quite so apparent in those of Dawkins.
I never really took to the bloke. He wrote well, but seemed very mixed up. Some of his views I disagreed with and it was really only his anti religious views that I was 'at one' with.
Dawkins I like. Anyone who marries a Dr Who second mate has got to have something going for him. His scientific books, and especially his writings of evolution, are very readable and 'available' to those who haven't studied biology beyond O level.
Troubleatmill said:
gadgetmac said:
I've just started reading and watching some of Hitchens stuff. That was one smart cookie in the debating arena.
As Dawkins himself once said "If you are a religious apologist invited to debate with Christopher Hitchens, decline."
Sam Harris is also very good.As Dawkins himself once said "If you are a religious apologist invited to debate with Christopher Hitchens, decline."
Derek Smith said:
He wrote well, but seemed very mixed up.
Well he's not called a 'contrarian' for nothing 
And lets not forget, Dawwkins isn't the most likeable personality either. But thats a strawman. It's the message thats important.
Hitchens himself asked for more help for Dawkins from his fellow biologists who did not seem to like him.
Hitchens had a rare gift (as I'm discovering) and that was to cut to the simple truth of the matter with a logic that was unarguable.
On the Virgin birth, "is it more believable that the natural order came to a halt for a moment or that some jezebel in the desert lied?"
Yep, not the nicest thing to say about the 'virgin Mary' but hell, it cuts to the bone.
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