GOlf MK III handling ?
Discussion
I am looking to improve the handling of a golf mk 3 tdi 90 bhp 97 76k miles. I used to own Mk 1 & 2 gti's which handled well.
I spoke to tuning people that tried to sell me up rated springs and dampers. They claimed that the current springs and dampers may be tired. Yes I agree with the dampers, but the springs? How many old coil sprung cars have you seen that look low due to tired springs? I have seen non. Previously I have a Mk 2 Scirocco as well that had Koni adjustable dampers with standard springs anti-roll bars etc. It handled very very well. I can speculate how to improve the handling but what has any body else done and what are the results. I am currently thinking of puttting just a set of Koni andjustables on. OK I know it not a GTI but has anyone done this to a similar car? And what were the results? There is no way I am doing anything to the engine until the car can cope better with the current torque and horse power.
>>> Edited by jelly-golf on Friday 17th September 15:56
I spoke to tuning people that tried to sell me up rated springs and dampers. They claimed that the current springs and dampers may be tired. Yes I agree with the dampers, but the springs? How many old coil sprung cars have you seen that look low due to tired springs? I have seen non. Previously I have a Mk 2 Scirocco as well that had Koni adjustable dampers with standard springs anti-roll bars etc. It handled very very well. I can speculate how to improve the handling but what has any body else done and what are the results. I am currently thinking of puttting just a set of Koni andjustables on. OK I know it not a GTI but has anyone done this to a similar car? And what were the results? There is no way I am doing anything to the engine until the car can cope better with the current torque and horse power.
>>> Edited by jelly-golf on Friday 17th September 15:56
To make your car handle more effectively, you need to lower its centre of gravity (ie lower the car) and stiffen up the suspension. Although your current springs may not actually be that worn, the fact that you will need to buy shortened dampers (to lower the ride height) may make buying shorter springs a necessity.
I am trying to avoid lowering the car but this may be unavoidable. I am not after race track handing but something a lot better than at present. Someone (not even a petrol head) followed me and said get your car sorted out it bounces around like a mad thing. There are so many combinations of springs dampers, anti-roll bars etc. I am trying to find someone that has got a MK 3 90 tdi to handle better than standard. I only want to fit things once and not really live with a mobile experiment. I can have a set of lowered springs and dampers for £240 or just a better set of dampers for £400, how long will the first lot last, just long enough to get me out of the warrenty period?
Are both prices you've quoted for brand new items? If you're car is "bouncing around" then its the springs that need replacing and not the dampers. Have a look at a few reputable suspension suppliers websites such as Koni, Bilstein, Spax, Eibach (springs only). I'm sure one of them will have a replacement part for your car without making it look and handle like a race car!
I think I may be able to help. The MK3 Golf is a notoriously bad handling vehicle especially when compared with it's Mk1 and 2 predecessors. There is little point in fitting GTi suspension (I have one) as the Gti is only marginally better than the standard car.
I fitted a Bilstien streetline kit to my Gti, which I would best describe as cheap and cheerful. It has lowered the car by about 20 to 25mm. I believe the dampers in this kit are only about 10% stiffer in bump and rebound over stock Gti. The springs are shorter and stiffer. The car now turns in a lot better and does not lurch fom corner to corner. The down side is that the rear suspension travel is now minimal before it bottoms out and the ride can be very uncomfortable on bad roads or over speed bumps.
I am fairly certain that the the drop in ride height is a major contributor to the improvement. If I were doing it all again i would probably fit Koni dampers with Eibach springs (I believe these are available as a kit)
I would certainly recommend fitting shorter springs to your deisel unless you regularly drive it four up and fully laden.
Sorry about the essay.
PP
I fitted a Bilstien streetline kit to my Gti, which I would best describe as cheap and cheerful. It has lowered the car by about 20 to 25mm. I believe the dampers in this kit are only about 10% stiffer in bump and rebound over stock Gti. The springs are shorter and stiffer. The car now turns in a lot better and does not lurch fom corner to corner. The down side is that the rear suspension travel is now minimal before it bottoms out and the ride can be very uncomfortable on bad roads or over speed bumps.
I am fairly certain that the the drop in ride height is a major contributor to the improvement. If I were doing it all again i would probably fit Koni dampers with Eibach springs (I believe these are available as a kit)
I would certainly recommend fitting shorter springs to your deisel unless you regularly drive it four up and fully laden.
Sorry about the essay.
PP
Hi,
thanks very much that answered a lot of questions. I had thought the GTI suspension would not be any use to me as the TDI is probably a lot heavier judging by the substantial sub frame the engine is mounted in. I think the actual chassis is probably very solid but then the suspension seems to have been softened up as some sort of compromise. Its almost like they had spent too much on the chassis and the did not have enough to isolate the suspension componts with good mountings. As far as I can tell it is not possible to get stiffened up standard height springs. So lowered and koni's may be the way to go. I will need to look in to what other differences there are between the GTI and TDI, for example supsnsion to body mountings? Thanks once again
thanks very much that answered a lot of questions. I had thought the GTI suspension would not be any use to me as the TDI is probably a lot heavier judging by the substantial sub frame the engine is mounted in. I think the actual chassis is probably very solid but then the suspension seems to have been softened up as some sort of compromise. Its almost like they had spent too much on the chassis and the did not have enough to isolate the suspension componts with good mountings. As far as I can tell it is not possible to get stiffened up standard height springs. So lowered and koni's may be the way to go. I will need to look in to what other differences there are between the GTI and TDI, for example supsnsion to body mountings? Thanks once again
Fit a set of uprated anti-roll bars (Neuspeed 25mm front /28mm rear will be ideal on a mk3) with new standard dampers and keep the original springs if you don't want to go down the lowering route. Friend had a car with these mods and it was a hoot to drive and still had decent suspension travel for out cr*p UK roads.
Ok, it was on a mk2 16v but the principle is the same
Ok, it was on a mk2 16v but the principle is the same
Hi,
thanks for the reply. There is a slight assumpition I need to put you right on. The MkI & II's handeled well so by changing the anti roll bar on a MKIII you think you are going to attchieve the same thing? No, all you did was improve the handling of a MKII even more. Well a MKIII TDI has been developed as if everything learnt on a MKI & II has been thrown away and started again from the beginning.
Having had the car for little while now I am far happier to drive it quickly and not expect to bounce off the road immediately, but if anything ever goes wrong or something unexpected happens, then its not a matter of will I stop, but more a matter or where can I plant it in order to stay alive?
I feel I have time now to explain I have been driving an auto Toyota Supra 3.0i for the last 5 years. OK it if anyone ever came my way I would quite happily point the front end straight at them. It had 2.5 feet of crumple zone before hitting anything solid like the block. (I mean 2.5 feet of rad & air & bumper.) The doors always seemed like the weak point in terms of impact damage. Lets face it the front of the car was about 6 feet away, the outside of the door about 1 foot away. Cars are also designed to take direct frontal hits, not door impacts. Now the front bumper is about 4 feet away things look a little different.
Sorry must get off and talk about oil.
thanks for the reply. There is a slight assumpition I need to put you right on. The MkI & II's handeled well so by changing the anti roll bar on a MKIII you think you are going to attchieve the same thing? No, all you did was improve the handling of a MKII even more. Well a MKIII TDI has been developed as if everything learnt on a MKI & II has been thrown away and started again from the beginning.
Having had the car for little while now I am far happier to drive it quickly and not expect to bounce off the road immediately, but if anything ever goes wrong or something unexpected happens, then its not a matter of will I stop, but more a matter or where can I plant it in order to stay alive?
I feel I have time now to explain I have been driving an auto Toyota Supra 3.0i for the last 5 years. OK it if anyone ever came my way I would quite happily point the front end straight at them. It had 2.5 feet of crumple zone before hitting anything solid like the block. (I mean 2.5 feet of rad & air & bumper.) The doors always seemed like the weak point in terms of impact damage. Lets face it the front of the car was about 6 feet away, the outside of the door about 1 foot away. Cars are also designed to take direct frontal hits, not door impacts. Now the front bumper is about 4 feet away things look a little different.
Sorry must get off and talk about oil.
hoping i can help a bit with the mk3 golf question.
if the car is bouncing,then its the dampers that need sorting,not the springs. the springs are the things that make the car bounce,the dampers control the osscilation.
a car with that many miles on may have some slightly worn bushes,so uprating these would be good.
springs can be made to any size/spec.
as for dampers,koni adjustables are a bit of a novalty,do people actually spend time adjusting them when on the car? the best option for dampers would be the bilstein SPORT damper. this damper uses digressive valving technology. far superior to koni or just about any others.
if the car is bouncing,then its the dampers that need sorting,not the springs. the springs are the things that make the car bounce,the dampers control the osscilation.
a car with that many miles on may have some slightly worn bushes,so uprating these would be good.
springs can be made to any size/spec.
as for dampers,koni adjustables are a bit of a novalty,do people actually spend time adjusting them when on the car? the best option for dampers would be the bilstein SPORT damper. this damper uses digressive valving technology. far superior to koni or just about any others.
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