Discussion
NGK BPR6EIX iridium every time.
If you cant stretch to the iridiums, then NGK BPR6ES will give similar improvements.
The key is moving away from the shrouded type to a projected electrode.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
- Better idle
- Better throttle response
- Improved cold start performance
If you cant stretch to the iridiums, then NGK BPR6ES will give similar improvements.
The key is moving away from the shrouded type to a projected electrode.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
As the man says- the funny thing is the BP6RES or BP6ES (if you dont want resistive plugs) are the ones used on most of the other Rover v8 set ups in the first place.
As for leads, just buy a decent set of OEM ones for the Range Rover, Bosch are a good bet for quality versus price. You will have to get a separate king lead (coil to dizzy) as I dont think the TVR one is the same length. Money spent on expensive fancy "low resistance" leads is a waste of money.
As for leads, just buy a decent set of OEM ones for the Range Rover, Bosch are a good bet for quality versus price. You will have to get a separate king lead (coil to dizzy) as I dont think the TVR one is the same length. Money spent on expensive fancy "low resistance" leads is a waste of money.
I avoid iridium plugs after seeing what happned to a friends engine after one of the fragile tips broke off and destroyed the piston. Rebuilt the engine and stuck with the cheap NGK copper core plugs and and had no loss in power.
Iridium plugs. Fitted to modern cars to lengthen service schedules.
If your existing type of plug works fine for you then stick with them.
Iridium plugs. Fitted to modern cars to lengthen service schedules.
If your existing type of plug works fine for you then stick with them.
With a huge percentage of cars now leaving the production line fitted with NGK iridium plugs we would be seeing a massive increase in warranty claims if they were destroying engines.
NGK are by a significant margin the worlds most respected spark plug manufacturer.
And there's very good reason for this, their quality control and manufacturing methods are steets ahead of the competition.
A company like NGK simple would not (& does not) put that kind of reputation at stake without the most extensive & rigorous testing of every product line they sell.
NGK have been manufacturing & supplying iridium plug technology for well over 10 years now, literally millions of iridium plugs are out there giving reliable service as I type this response.
The very fact NGK continue to supply & develop this technology is testament to it's performance, reliability & success within the OEM & after market sectors.
Trust me, if electrodes were failing we would all know about it, the real facts behind iridium technology is it provides a substantially stronger & more durable electrode.
Not a weaker one!
Interestingly there is one fuel type that demands a significantly more durable electrode, and that's LPG.
LPG is also significantly harder to strike, the ignition demands of this fuel are therefore significantly greater that with a liquid fuel.
This puts a huge strain on the coil/coil packs, ignition leads, distributor cap electrodes, rotor arm & last but not least the spark plugs.
Up to 7,000 volts more strain to be exact!
Every manufacturer (including NGK) that currently offers an LPG specific spark plug range do so using iridium electrode technology.
Do you really think that's a coincidence?
Of course it's not, just like the many motor manufacturers that choose to fit iridium plugs from day one it's because they offer better combustion and a significantly longer service life.
If they didn't they wouldn't fit them, because they are definitely more expensive, & we all know profit is king in motor manufacture.
And lets face it, motor manufacturers most definitely wouldn't fit them if they failed and damaged pistons.
The only thing that will happen if you fit NGK iridium plugs in your TVR is:
Far better, & proven to be so!
FACT.
NGK are by a significant margin the worlds most respected spark plug manufacturer.
And there's very good reason for this, their quality control and manufacturing methods are steets ahead of the competition.
A company like NGK simple would not (& does not) put that kind of reputation at stake without the most extensive & rigorous testing of every product line they sell.
NGK have been manufacturing & supplying iridium plug technology for well over 10 years now, literally millions of iridium plugs are out there giving reliable service as I type this response.
The very fact NGK continue to supply & develop this technology is testament to it's performance, reliability & success within the OEM & after market sectors.
Trust me, if electrodes were failing we would all know about it, the real facts behind iridium technology is it provides a substantially stronger & more durable electrode.
Not a weaker one!
Interestingly there is one fuel type that demands a significantly more durable electrode, and that's LPG.
LPG is also significantly harder to strike, the ignition demands of this fuel are therefore significantly greater that with a liquid fuel.
This puts a huge strain on the coil/coil packs, ignition leads, distributor cap electrodes, rotor arm & last but not least the spark plugs.
Up to 7,000 volts more strain to be exact!
Every manufacturer (including NGK) that currently offers an LPG specific spark plug range do so using iridium electrode technology.
Do you really think that's a coincidence?
Of course it's not, just like the many motor manufacturers that choose to fit iridium plugs from day one it's because they offer better combustion and a significantly longer service life.
If they didn't they wouldn't fit them, because they are definitely more expensive, & we all know profit is king in motor manufacture.
And lets face it, motor manufacturers most definitely wouldn't fit them if they failed and damaged pistons.
The only thing that will happen if you fit NGK iridium plugs in your TVR is:
- Your idle will be smoother
- Your throttle response will improve
- They will outlast a traditional electrode plug by tens of thousands of miles
Far better, & proven to be so!
FACT.
jonnylayze said:
Thanks for the replies. That is helpful. Two questions. What's the difference between resistive and non-resistive plugs and, depending on the plugs I use, will I need to alter the timing (one of them posts in the linked thread above suggests that I might)
The timing remains as is. The matter of resistve versus non resistive is pretty marginal, as the plug leads and possibly the plug extenders are also resistive anyway. The resistive plugs do produce less radio interferance that might glitch the cars electronics, but the 14CUX is a tough old girl and not prone to glitches, plus a resistive plug does reduce the spark intensity a tad. If you already have resistive plug extenders, then non resistive plugs will be fine.Russell Mc said:
Says who?
Audi, Maserati, Ferrari, Aston Martin, Ford, Mazda, Honda, Lamborghini, General Motors, BMW....Need I go on?
Did you read my post, or just look at the bottom two sentences and type your two word challenge?
I recommend you re-read my post in full, it's full of conclusive factual evidence supporting my final statement.
I would then encourage you to do your own research on the subject, but try and seek it from professional sources not forum based here say.
If the iridium plug was the true root cause of the engine failure mentioned (& I doubt it was), I would put money on it being promoted by ham fisted plug gaping.
In operation as designed an iridium electrode is far stronger than any conventional electrode, this is proven & well excepted within the industry.
That's the whole reason they can be made so small, and there are advantages to making a centre electrode smaller, which is precisely why iridium plug technology was developed.
People tend to look at the tiny electrode on an iridium plug and immediately assume its delicate, and yes it you subject it to forces it wasn't designed for, it is indeed quite delicate.
This is easily avoided by just removing them from the box & fitting them.
They are at the end of the day, precisely gapped to perfection by NGK, levering on them with a feeler gauge or plug gapping tool will very likely end in tears.
I hope this answers your question?
Edited by ChimpofDarkness on Tuesday 12th February 13:14
Russell Mc said:
You can go on all you like. You have your opinions I have mine. You don't have to try to convince people it's right just because its how you do it.
Indeed, you make a good point.In response I would just say this to anyone approaching plug change time.
Try a set of NGK BPR6EIX iridiums.
Drive the car, and report back with your findings on here for everyone to read.
Don't let one unproven case of a failed electrode destroying an engine put you off, just make sure you don't heave on your new plugs with a gapping tool.
Take confidence in the list of major motor manufactures I have listed above who all fit iridium plugs on their production lines.
I bet the tester's next post will go something like this:
"The car starts better, idles smoother and generally feels more responsive on the throttle"
There, that concludes it.
Let the community be the judge not me
PS: If there is anyone else out there that's switched to iridium plugs recently please do share your findings with the group.
ChimpofDarkness said:
Indeed, you make a good point.
In response I would just say this to anyone approaching plug change time.
Try a set of NGK BPR6EIX iridiums ...
PS: If there is anyone else out there that's switched to iridium plugs recently please do share your findings with the group.
Has anyone used these on a standard 14CUX fueling and distributor ignition set up?In response I would just say this to anyone approaching plug change time.
Try a set of NGK BPR6EIX iridiums ...
PS: If there is anyone else out there that's switched to iridium plugs recently please do share your findings with the group.
davep said:
ChimpofDarkness said:
Indeed, you make a good point.
In response I would just say this to anyone approaching plug change time.
Try a set of NGK BPR6EIX iridiums ...
PS: If there is anyone else out there that's switched to iridium plugs recently please do share your findings with the group.
Has anyone used these on a standard 14CUX fueling and distributor ignition set up?In response I would just say this to anyone approaching plug change time.
Try a set of NGK BPR6EIX iridiums ...
PS: If there is anyone else out there that's switched to iridium plugs recently please do share your findings with the group.
But as Russell MC points out it's just one isolated unproven case of significant & noticeable improvements.
So on balance we would seem we have:
- One excellent result from me
- One destroyed engine from Russell MC's mate's second cousin twice removed
Oh, and & nearly forgot...there's the million or so new car owners that have happily completed millions of miles on iridium plugs without issue.
However, I feel this situation is likely to change very soon, as I'm currently writing to NGK & all the major motor manufacturers to tell them about Russell MC's mate's case.
I'm almost certain NGK will pull the product and the big names will switch back to a conventional electrode plug once they see what a terrible mistake they've been making for the last 10 years.
Thanks Russell MC, you've really shown these stupid Japanese "so called" spark plug experts & silly car makers the error of their ways.
A million engines saved
Seriously though davep, and friendly joking aside, try a set and see what you think
What's the worst that could happen
ChimpofDarkness said:
What's the worst that could happen
Erm, pre-ignition or detonation due to the fact your '6' recommendation is a grade softer than the '7' specced by the engine developer and sits further in the combustion chamber where it can nicely absorb but fail to as effectively conduct away heat?As you've researched the subject so thoroughly, it's a tad surprising you don't mention NGK's own published wisdom on not deviating from ECS family electrodes due to their superior strength; nor the fact an ECS style electrode is actually available with an Iridium tip. You also fail to mention that many many forced induction builders are chucking OEM fitted Iridium plugs in favour of ECS variants due to their increased ruggedness; and it's not like you're unaware of that as it has been pointed out to you before
Bottom line chaps, THEY WORK!
And work extremely well too, but don't just take my word for it.
If the projected electrode sixes were going to kill your engine by promoting detonation I very much doubt V8 Developments would be fitting them to their extremely well respected RV8 engine builds.
Which they do.
I still encourage anyone that's using a projected electrode 6 and or it's iridium cousin to let everyone know what they found, I know "Quietlybonkers" over in the Chimp cage has.
Also it's interesting that Richard Atfield's ("Discopotatos") twin turbo 4.8 litre RV8 happily lays almost 500hp to the road using NGK BPR6ES with absolutely no detonation or plug failures of any kind.
There, I think that's pretty conclusive.
If you still feel your TVR needs stronger colder plugs than Richard's rather extreme engine build, then by all means fit a set of NGK B7ECS.
However if like me you think you might enjoy better cold starting, a smoother idle & improved throttle response, I still recommend you try NGK BPR6ES or NGK BPR6EIX.
At the end of the day I was just trying to share my real world experiences of NGK BPR6EIX with the group, & only because I found they gave genuine improvements in my TVR & I thought others might like to know about it.
I'll leave it there as I think enough time has been invested in this topic.
And work extremely well too, but don't just take my word for it.
If the projected electrode sixes were going to kill your engine by promoting detonation I very much doubt V8 Developments would be fitting them to their extremely well respected RV8 engine builds.
Which they do.
I still encourage anyone that's using a projected electrode 6 and or it's iridium cousin to let everyone know what they found, I know "Quietlybonkers" over in the Chimp cage has.
Also it's interesting that Richard Atfield's ("Discopotatos") twin turbo 4.8 litre RV8 happily lays almost 500hp to the road using NGK BPR6ES with absolutely no detonation or plug failures of any kind.
There, I think that's pretty conclusive.
If you still feel your TVR needs stronger colder plugs than Richard's rather extreme engine build, then by all means fit a set of NGK B7ECS.
However if like me you think you might enjoy better cold starting, a smoother idle & improved throttle response, I still recommend you try NGK BPR6ES or NGK BPR6EIX.
At the end of the day I was just trying to share my real world experiences of NGK BPR6EIX with the group, & only because I found they gave genuine improvements in my TVR & I thought others might like to know about it.
I'll leave it there as I think enough time has been invested in this topic.
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