Well Done North Korea. Nuclear weapon test fire.
Discussion
southendpier said:
Just heard on telly that they might be doing this for Iran. Any truth or simply whipping up the axis of evil idea?
I think a lot of their scientific assistance comes from Iran. They both use the same type of reactors iirc.I doubt anyone is in the mood for a ground war in Asia, and the fact Seoul is within range of the North's artillery keeps things interesting...
Edited by collateral on Tuesday 12th February 07:19
collateral said:
southendpier said:
Just heard on telly that they might be doing this for Iran. Any truth or simply whipping up the axis of evil idea?
I think a lot of their scientific assistance comes from Iran. They both use the same type of reactors iirc.I doubt anyone is in the mood for a ground war in Asia, and the fact Seoul is within range of the North's artillery keeps things interesting...
Edited by collateral on Tuesday 12th February 07:19
....anyway Seoul is being held to ransom.
Any overt military action against NK and it would be obliterated by conventional and chemical artillery attack.
NK poised to attack Seoul is just a ploy to prevent any further aggression towards the North - doesn't matter how effective the attack against the North would be, NK could level Seoul within hours. No one wants that.
The last rocket they launched did actually work - and placed a satellite (washing machine) in space. Now they are stating (without being explicit) that as the result of the test they have the ability to build a nuke.
I dont think they ever plan to use the Nuke, they just want to even the sides. Once they have a nuke stock pile, the chance of any country ever invading and toppling the regime will never be without the threat of nuclear retaliation.
Frankly the only way NK will ever fall is if all food aid is stopped - which means potentially sentencing 23 million people to starvation. The thing is that's already happening anyway, as the food aid is re appropriated for the army whilst the general population starves.
Also while everyone sits around discussion on how best to deal with the angry fat kit - hundreds of thousands peoples basic human rights are being violated, people are being tortured, beaten, worked to death and treated like they are sub human.
The last rocket they launched did actually work - and placed a satellite (washing machine) in space. Now they are stating (without being explicit) that as the result of the test they have the ability to build a nuke.
I dont think they ever plan to use the Nuke, they just want to even the sides. Once they have a nuke stock pile, the chance of any country ever invading and toppling the regime will never be without the threat of nuclear retaliation.
Frankly the only way NK will ever fall is if all food aid is stopped - which means potentially sentencing 23 million people to starvation. The thing is that's already happening anyway, as the food aid is re appropriated for the army whilst the general population starves.
Also while everyone sits around discussion on how best to deal with the angry fat kit - hundreds of thousands peoples basic human rights are being violated, people are being tortured, beaten, worked to death and treated like they are sub human.
moustachebandit said:
NK poised to attack Seoul is just a ploy to prevent any further aggression towards the North - doesn't matter how effective the attack against the North would be, NK could level Seoul within hours. No one wants that.
The last rocket they launched did actually work - and placed a satellite (washing machine) in space. Now they are stating (without being explicit) that as the result of the test they have the ability to build a nuke.
I dont think they ever plan to use the Nuke, they just want to even the sides. Once they have a nuke stock pile, the chance of any country ever invading and toppling the regime will never be without the threat of nuclear retaliation.
Frankly the only way NK will ever fall is if all food aid is stopped - which means potentially sentencing 23 million people to starvation. The thing is that's already happening anyway, as the food aid is re appropriated for the army whilst the general population starves.
Also while everyone sits around discussion on how best to deal with the angry fat kit - hundreds of thousands peoples basic human rights are being violated, people are being tortured, beaten, worked to death and treated like they are sub human.
Chance of an uprising from within?The last rocket they launched did actually work - and placed a satellite (washing machine) in space. Now they are stating (without being explicit) that as the result of the test they have the ability to build a nuke.
I dont think they ever plan to use the Nuke, they just want to even the sides. Once they have a nuke stock pile, the chance of any country ever invading and toppling the regime will never be without the threat of nuclear retaliation.
Frankly the only way NK will ever fall is if all food aid is stopped - which means potentially sentencing 23 million people to starvation. The thing is that's already happening anyway, as the food aid is re appropriated for the army whilst the general population starves.
Also while everyone sits around discussion on how best to deal with the angry fat kit - hundreds of thousands peoples basic human rights are being violated, people are being tortured, beaten, worked to death and treated like they are sub human.
moustachebandit said:
NK could level Seoul within hours.
I don't understand why so many people believe this. The military of South Korea is not insignificant, and they have the backing of the USFK. The NK military may be huge, but I suspect that it's also woefully ill-equipped, and would crumble in the same way that the Iraqi Army did. If it was a pitchfork fight my money would be on NK.
MX7 said:
I don't understand why so many people believe this. The military of South Korea is not insignificant, and they have the backing of the USFK. The NK military may be huge, but I suspect that it's also woefully ill-equipped, and would crumble in the same way that the Iraqi Army did.
If it was a pitchfork fight my money would be on NK.
Think you're missing the point that if it was to go off then NK would just lob everything at Seoul in retatliation. There is no conflict with NK that doesn't result in a sIf it was a pitchfork fight my money would be on NK.
tload of deaths in SK.On the plus side at least British soldiers won't be going into NK any time soon at the behest of the Americans.
Left alone NK isn't a problem. It's only a problem if you wish to interfere in their internal affairs as the west seems to want to do all around the world. Their people will eventually rise up against them if its as unbearable as the media would have us believe...just as they are throughout the Arab world.
Left alone NK isn't a problem. It's only a problem if you wish to interfere in their internal affairs as the west seems to want to do all around the world. Their people will eventually rise up against them if its as unbearable as the media would have us believe...just as they are throughout the Arab world.
Oakey said:
MX7 said:
I don't understand why so many people believe this. The military of South Korea is not insignificant, and they have the backing of the USFK. The NK military may be huge, but I suspect that it's also woefully ill-equipped, and would crumble in the same way that the Iraqi Army did.
If it was a pitchfork fight my money would be on NK.
Think you're missing the point that if it was to go off then NK would just lob everything at Seoul in retatliation. There is no conflict with NK that doesn't result in a sIf it was a pitchfork fight my money would be on NK.
tload of deaths in SK.MX7 said:
moustachebandit said:
NK could level Seoul within hours.
I don't understand why so many people believe this. The military of South Korea is not insignificant, and they have the backing of the USFK. The NK military may be huge, but I suspect that it's also woefully ill-equipped, and would crumble in the same way that the Iraqi Army did. If it was a pitchfork fight my money would be on NK.
Edit. There is only one new source........
http://www.kcna.co.jp/index-e.htm
Edited by jmorgan on Tuesday 12th February 11:25
MX7 said:
I don't understand why so many people believe this. The military of South Korea is not insignificant, and they have the backing of the USFK. The NK military may be huge, but I suspect that it's also woefully ill-equipped, and would crumble in the same way that the Iraqi Army did.
If it was a pitchfork fight my money would be on NK.
Their military is armed with all kinds of old crap but I'm not sure about woefully ill-equipped when it comes to hitting Seoul. They have enormous amounts of ballistic missiles, mostly SCUD derived. Rather a lot of them are dug into hardened bunkers too. Unlike Iraq they also have a lot of chemical weapons. These are fairly useless against a modern military force but would be devastating if they start lobbing them into South Korean cities.If it was a pitchfork fight my money would be on NK.
Oakey said:
Think you're missing the point that if it was to go off then NK would just lob everything at Seoul in retatliation. There is no conflict with NK that doesn't result in a stload of deaths in SK.
I'm not saying that they wouldn't be able to hit Seoul, but I believe that it would be a short lived attack, and result in the demise of NK. tload of deaths in SK.Here's what Anthony Cordesman saya:
Anthony Cordesman said:
“Artillery is not that lethal,” says Anthony Cordesman, who holds the Arleigh A. Burke Chair in Strategy at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), and is a national security analyst for ABC News. “It takes a long time for it to produce the densities of fire to go beyond terrorism and harassment.” Even in a worst-case scenario, where both U.S. and South Korean forces are somehow paralyzed or otherwise engaged, and North Korea fires its 170mm artillery batteries and 240mm rocket launchers with total impunity, the grim reality wouldn’t live up to the hype. Buildings would be perforated, fires would inevitably rage and an unknown number of people would die. Seoul would be under siege—but it wouldn’t be flattened, destroyed or leveled.
Puggit said:
...well within range of modern conventional weapons.
You might think with the oppositions firepower that close and on a land border they would have invested in an Iron Dome type interception defense system.Fundamentally I agree that nothing will happen with North Korea, it's too difficult to grasp the nettle still. Best bet is to get the Chinese on side granting asylum to refugees and possibly arming/training some sort of covert operation. You'd never even get the Chinese agree to starve them out.
Artillery is effective, but time limited, you can't constantly fire as the best modern equipment (our AS90's) can only do 2-3 fire missions before the barrell droops. We were always taught that a battery effect (6 gun) fire for effect fire
Mission would pretty much mash a 1k grid square before it was stopped for heat/ammo/maint issues.
Given the NK artillery is using way outdated equipment and poor quality ammo I'd be very surprised if it did much damage. Even throwing thousands of rounds down it would be ineffective. I also beleive te SK have a variant of our Pheonix missile systems so not much would be left standing inside 24hrs, especially given the sceptic tanks would soon have stealths running sortie after sortie.
Mission would pretty much mash a 1k grid square before it was stopped for heat/ammo/maint issues.
Given the NK artillery is using way outdated equipment and poor quality ammo I'd be very surprised if it did much damage. Even throwing thousands of rounds down it would be ineffective. I also beleive te SK have a variant of our Pheonix missile systems so not much would be left standing inside 24hrs, especially given the sceptic tanks would soon have stealths running sortie after sortie.
moustachebandit said:
Frankly the only way NK will ever fall is if all food aid is stopped - which means potentially sentencing 23 million people to starvation. The thing is that's already happening anyway, as the food aid is re appropriated for the army whilst the general population starves.
Cuttting off oil and energy supplies would be far quicker, cause far less death....Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff