Oscar Pistorius shoots girlfriend
Discussion
In fact here it all is, to save clicking.
This is Pistorius' defence "version":
1. Reeva happily goes to bed, having packed all her clothes neatly away in her bag, including her underwear and the top she was wearing, while leaving her jeans inside-out at the bottom of the bed.
2. OP wakes in the night and immediately puts his hands over his face. He takes them off long enough to glance over and notice Reeva’s legs under the duvet. He then puts his hands back over his face to get out of bed – pushing aside a duvet that is not actually on him.
3. He walks around to Reeva’s side of the bed, without either looking at her or telling her what he’s doing. She doesn’t ask, either.
4. Once his back is completely turned, Reeva silently scrambles across to his side of the bed and walks totally noiselessly and in the pitch black to the toilet.
5. Never once facing the bed, OP brings both fans in and positions them at the end of the bed. How he did that with his back to the bed the entire time, I am unable to fathom. He either stood with his back to the bed, and put the fans in front of him and then walked around them, or positioned them with his arms behind him.
6. In spite of the pitch-black room, he notices jeans on the floor. He is bothered by a small LED light enough to want to cover them with said jeans – but not bothered by the lit-up LED display, the light on the TV or the lights on the light switches.
7. He hears a terrifying sound from the bathroom and is frozen with fear. At no point does it cross his mind that it may have been the person sharing the bedroom and bathroom with him making the noise – nope, he’s so convinced it can’t be her, he doesn’t even bother to turn his head and glance in her direction.
8. He doesn’t seek to clarify what he’s heard with his awake girlfriend who is feet away from him. He doesn’t wonder if she heard it too and is scared.
9. He feels particularly vulnerable because he’s on his stumps, but doesn’t take a few seconds to put on the legs that are, actually, right next to him.
10. He stops being frozen with fear and heads for his gun, making his way around the fans that he has just positioned in front of the bed. He holds into the bed for balance, and says not-a-word to the person who is in it regarding the fact that he believes that there are intruders in the next room and he needs to arm himself.
11. He reaches under the bed for the gun, careful not to glance across at the person he believes is in it.
12. He stands up, faces the passage and whispers/speaks quietly to Reeva, telling her to get down and call the police without actually telling her why. He is not surprised that she doesn’t ask or that she doesn’t bother to get out of bed and get down as instructed.
13. He makes his way in terror to the bathroom – ignoring the door that he and Reeva could have escaped through and the panic alarm that would have brought immediate help.
14. He’s so desperate to put himself between the intruders and Reeva that he doesn’t actually check where Reeva is.
15. He is too scared to put the light on but not too scared to start screaming as soon as he starts walking down the passage.
16. He is walking slowly and quietly down the passage, screaming.
17. Reeva hears the screaming but is too scared of the intruder to respond and give away her position, so she slams the door.images-2
18. OP screams at Reeva to call the police. She fails to do this even though she has her phone with her.
19. OP gets to the bathroom doorway, and stops screaming so that the intruders won’t know where he is.
20.When he sees that there’s no one in the bathroom, he starts screaming again.
21. Reeva stands facing the door, making no effort to speak to her screaming boyfriend – who is now standing right outside the toilet door. She doesn’t wonder if he wants to come into the toilet and hide with her; she selfishly hides, silently locking the door and says nothing.
22. Somehow she steps backwards to knock the magazine rack on the other side of the toilet before immediately stepping forward again to the position she was in when she was shot.
23. OP has many thoughts running though his head – a story about a neighbour being tied up in his house, the crime rate in SA, the builder leaving a ladder outside his house, the folly of shooting a warning shot into the shower in case it ricochets and hits him, but a noise from the toilet has all thoughts disappearing from his mind like a fart in the wind and he shoots once, moves position and shoots three more times without actually meaning to….all the while screaming.
24. He stands screaming for a bit, then walks backwards out of the bathroom screaming.
25. He gets to the bedroom, screaming, and is a trifle surprised to see that Reeva is not sitting in bed after hearing four gunshots from the en suite bathroom.
26. He heads across the bed backwards, keeping his eyes on the passage….she’s not there. He walks along the gap between the bed and the curtains; she’s not there. She’s not behind the curtains either.
27. Gasp. Was that Reeva in the toilet? He doesn’t even bother checking to see whether she’s run out of the bedroom – that would be a ridiculous thing to do given that the shooting was in the bathroom, so he sees no sense in even checking (yes, he actually said that).
28. He runs with his gun back to the bathroom and tries to pull open the door – he’s still scared it may be an intruder, and hopeful it’s not Reeva, but he doesn’t bother checking to see if there’s a ladder outside the window.
29. He runs back to the bedroom, parts the curtains and shouts for help from the balcony….holding a cocked gun in his hand because he’s still scared.
30. He puts down his gun, sits on the bed, looks for his socks, puts on his legs then picks up his gun again to run to the bathroom – all in the pitch black because he tells us he never opened the curtains or put on the light.
31. Kicking the door doesn’t work, so he runs back for his bat. He then runs back to the bathroom with a cocked gun in one hand and a cricket bat in the other.
* Oh, I almost forgot – throughout all of this he is screaming like a woman, except when he goes onto the balcony to shout for help in a man’s voice.
All of the above takes him 15 minutes
32. Back in the bathroom, he puts down the gun and hits the door three times with enough ferocity that six people think they are gunshots. Four of those people had slept through the real gunshots 15 minutes earlier – seemingly not bothered by a sound 1000 times louder than the sound that they are hearing now.
33. Once he breaks down the door and sees Reeva bloody and not breathing, he is as silent as a monk. No more screaming – he is too “sad” to scream anymore.
34. In spite of screaming at Reeva to call the police three times, it doesn’t occur to him to do the same himself now.images-6
35. He sits sobbing over her, then pulls her against him, feeling her blood run on to him – although it only manages to stain his shorts and forearms.
36. He is so distraught by Reeva’s condition, that getting medical help for her is not his first thought….calling a friend is.
37. He psychically knows that Netcare will tell him to get Reeva to hospital himself so he calls Stander to help him lift her so he can do this.
38. He then calls Netcare to be given the worst medical advice of all time – to take a woman who has been shot three times, once in the head, to hospital himself.
39. He calls Security for help, then sobs down the phone to them. When they call him back, he forgets to ask for help and tells them he is fine.
40. He runs downstairs, careful to switch off the alarm first and opens the door, crying.
41. Coming back upstairs he smashes his way through the bedroom double-doors before simply unlatching them.
42. He carries Reeva through the bedroom, leaving a dissected line of blood that is half on carpet and half on the duvet on the bed – which the police can handily line up later making it look like the duvet was on the floor all along and that OP is one enormous great big fat liar.
This is Pistorius' defence "version":
1. Reeva happily goes to bed, having packed all her clothes neatly away in her bag, including her underwear and the top she was wearing, while leaving her jeans inside-out at the bottom of the bed.
2. OP wakes in the night and immediately puts his hands over his face. He takes them off long enough to glance over and notice Reeva’s legs under the duvet. He then puts his hands back over his face to get out of bed – pushing aside a duvet that is not actually on him.
3. He walks around to Reeva’s side of the bed, without either looking at her or telling her what he’s doing. She doesn’t ask, either.
4. Once his back is completely turned, Reeva silently scrambles across to his side of the bed and walks totally noiselessly and in the pitch black to the toilet.
5. Never once facing the bed, OP brings both fans in and positions them at the end of the bed. How he did that with his back to the bed the entire time, I am unable to fathom. He either stood with his back to the bed, and put the fans in front of him and then walked around them, or positioned them with his arms behind him.
6. In spite of the pitch-black room, he notices jeans on the floor. He is bothered by a small LED light enough to want to cover them with said jeans – but not bothered by the lit-up LED display, the light on the TV or the lights on the light switches.
7. He hears a terrifying sound from the bathroom and is frozen with fear. At no point does it cross his mind that it may have been the person sharing the bedroom and bathroom with him making the noise – nope, he’s so convinced it can’t be her, he doesn’t even bother to turn his head and glance in her direction.
8. He doesn’t seek to clarify what he’s heard with his awake girlfriend who is feet away from him. He doesn’t wonder if she heard it too and is scared.
9. He feels particularly vulnerable because he’s on his stumps, but doesn’t take a few seconds to put on the legs that are, actually, right next to him.
10. He stops being frozen with fear and heads for his gun, making his way around the fans that he has just positioned in front of the bed. He holds into the bed for balance, and says not-a-word to the person who is in it regarding the fact that he believes that there are intruders in the next room and he needs to arm himself.
11. He reaches under the bed for the gun, careful not to glance across at the person he believes is in it.
12. He stands up, faces the passage and whispers/speaks quietly to Reeva, telling her to get down and call the police without actually telling her why. He is not surprised that she doesn’t ask or that she doesn’t bother to get out of bed and get down as instructed.
13. He makes his way in terror to the bathroom – ignoring the door that he and Reeva could have escaped through and the panic alarm that would have brought immediate help.
14. He’s so desperate to put himself between the intruders and Reeva that he doesn’t actually check where Reeva is.
15. He is too scared to put the light on but not too scared to start screaming as soon as he starts walking down the passage.
16. He is walking slowly and quietly down the passage, screaming.
17. Reeva hears the screaming but is too scared of the intruder to respond and give away her position, so she slams the door.images-2
18. OP screams at Reeva to call the police. She fails to do this even though she has her phone with her.
19. OP gets to the bathroom doorway, and stops screaming so that the intruders won’t know where he is.
20.When he sees that there’s no one in the bathroom, he starts screaming again.
21. Reeva stands facing the door, making no effort to speak to her screaming boyfriend – who is now standing right outside the toilet door. She doesn’t wonder if he wants to come into the toilet and hide with her; she selfishly hides, silently locking the door and says nothing.
22. Somehow she steps backwards to knock the magazine rack on the other side of the toilet before immediately stepping forward again to the position she was in when she was shot.
23. OP has many thoughts running though his head – a story about a neighbour being tied up in his house, the crime rate in SA, the builder leaving a ladder outside his house, the folly of shooting a warning shot into the shower in case it ricochets and hits him, but a noise from the toilet has all thoughts disappearing from his mind like a fart in the wind and he shoots once, moves position and shoots three more times without actually meaning to….all the while screaming.
24. He stands screaming for a bit, then walks backwards out of the bathroom screaming.
25. He gets to the bedroom, screaming, and is a trifle surprised to see that Reeva is not sitting in bed after hearing four gunshots from the en suite bathroom.
26. He heads across the bed backwards, keeping his eyes on the passage….she’s not there. He walks along the gap between the bed and the curtains; she’s not there. She’s not behind the curtains either.
27. Gasp. Was that Reeva in the toilet? He doesn’t even bother checking to see whether she’s run out of the bedroom – that would be a ridiculous thing to do given that the shooting was in the bathroom, so he sees no sense in even checking (yes, he actually said that).
28. He runs with his gun back to the bathroom and tries to pull open the door – he’s still scared it may be an intruder, and hopeful it’s not Reeva, but he doesn’t bother checking to see if there’s a ladder outside the window.
29. He runs back to the bedroom, parts the curtains and shouts for help from the balcony….holding a cocked gun in his hand because he’s still scared.
30. He puts down his gun, sits on the bed, looks for his socks, puts on his legs then picks up his gun again to run to the bathroom – all in the pitch black because he tells us he never opened the curtains or put on the light.
31. Kicking the door doesn’t work, so he runs back for his bat. He then runs back to the bathroom with a cocked gun in one hand and a cricket bat in the other.
* Oh, I almost forgot – throughout all of this he is screaming like a woman, except when he goes onto the balcony to shout for help in a man’s voice.
All of the above takes him 15 minutes
32. Back in the bathroom, he puts down the gun and hits the door three times with enough ferocity that six people think they are gunshots. Four of those people had slept through the real gunshots 15 minutes earlier – seemingly not bothered by a sound 1000 times louder than the sound that they are hearing now.
33. Once he breaks down the door and sees Reeva bloody and not breathing, he is as silent as a monk. No more screaming – he is too “sad” to scream anymore.
34. In spite of screaming at Reeva to call the police three times, it doesn’t occur to him to do the same himself now.images-6
35. He sits sobbing over her, then pulls her against him, feeling her blood run on to him – although it only manages to stain his shorts and forearms.
36. He is so distraught by Reeva’s condition, that getting medical help for her is not his first thought….calling a friend is.
37. He psychically knows that Netcare will tell him to get Reeva to hospital himself so he calls Stander to help him lift her so he can do this.
38. He then calls Netcare to be given the worst medical advice of all time – to take a woman who has been shot three times, once in the head, to hospital himself.
39. He calls Security for help, then sobs down the phone to them. When they call him back, he forgets to ask for help and tells them he is fine.
40. He runs downstairs, careful to switch off the alarm first and opens the door, crying.
41. Coming back upstairs he smashes his way through the bedroom double-doors before simply unlatching them.
42. He carries Reeva through the bedroom, leaving a dissected line of blood that is half on carpet and half on the duvet on the bed – which the police can handily line up later making it look like the duvet was on the floor all along and that OP is one enormous great big fat liar.
ash73 said:
kiseca said:
ash73 said:
photosnob said:
no one can know definitely, as I said before we can shift one way or the other, but to state with certainty is an impossibility.
Classic example of the CSI effect. If I ever end up in court, *please* be on my jury.ash73 said:
Still ducking the elephant in the room then.
No I just don't take kindly to being called an idiot, or seeing anyone else called one either. It doesn't inspire me to engage in casual conversation with the individual. Manners cost nothing. Go and find some then we can talk about elephants if it makes you happy. Or ducks if you prefer.ash73 said:
Yep, ignore the issue at hand and flap your arms about, that's always the best way to disprove being an idiot.
The issue at hand is that neither of us have said that he is innocent. I've said I believe that he probably isn't. Again before telling others to read something, read what they have written. I believe tesco shares are going to increase in value, which is why I have invested in them. However I don't know this as a certainty.
Go back and read what has been written. If you have any questions I can provide you with a few links to what percentage of belief judges feel a jury should have before convicting. Hint - not one of them said 100%, statically certainty is 100%. Rather than post why he didn't do it, post perfect evidence that he did, so that there could be no doubt in anyone's mind. That is certainty.
ash73 said:
You are blinded by the CSI effect, and offering preposterous explanations for his actions that are completely at odds with human nature. Try to understand the difference between "no doubt" and "no reasonable doubt"; the latter is required to be "sure".
That would be all well and good. If I hadn't made the same point before you! Seriously you need to read what has been written because you look ridiculous now.
"Nobody will never really know with certainty" isn't you can never convict without certainty.
I apologise if you have some form of special needs but yo
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