Maybe the PH party idea is not so crazy
Discussion
How often do we hear that all politicians are self serving aholes and that we need a "new party", a party of common sense etc.. It's just not practical people say, the political establishment have too big a hold on things, too much power, money and control.
Well in Italy the "Grillo five star movement", led by Beppe Grillo, a comedian who has run on a manifesto that vowed to clear out the political classes has taken around 25% of the seats in the Italian parliament!
Who knows, perhaps a party of common sense led by a charismatic leader could energise the electorate in the UK and actually win some seats?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21587123
Well in Italy the "Grillo five star movement", led by Beppe Grillo, a comedian who has run on a manifesto that vowed to clear out the political classes has taken around 25% of the seats in the Italian parliament!
Who knows, perhaps a party of common sense led by a charismatic leader could energise the electorate in the UK and actually win some seats?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21587123
Eric Mc said:
No point in setting up a party until you know what the party stands "for". This clown (and others like him) are very good at telling everybody what they are "against".
I think being against the excesses of the political classes and wanting to shake up the system is as good a reason for running as any!unrepentant said:
Eric Mc said:
No point in setting up a party until you know what the party stands "for". This clown (and others like him) are very good at telling everybody what they are "against".
I think being against the excesses of the political classes and wanting to shake up the system is as good a reason for running as any!It's very easy to tear down.
Far more difficult to build something new that works.
rohrl said:
I don't want a "charismatic leader", I want a PM who knows what he or she is doing.
Charismatic leaders are nearly always a total disaster for the people they're leading because they believe their charisma will make up for other deficiencies, which it usually does until it doesn't.
Has there ever been a more charismatic leader than Churchill? Anyway, I don't think we're talking about a potential PM here. What the Grillo movement may achieve in Italy is a shake up of the system and that has to be a good thing. Imagine if a new party with sensible policies took 25% of the seats in parliament! Imagine that happening in the USA! We may actually get something done as the deadlock would have to be broken and there could be no more complacency. Unfortunately the electorate is even more entrenched here than in the UK.Charismatic leaders are nearly always a total disaster for the people they're leading because they believe their charisma will make up for other deficiencies, which it usually does until it doesn't.
I'm probably missing something really important here so please forgive my ignorance, but does anyone else look at those percentages and think they don't correspond with the actual number of seats?
For example, Bersani has almost three times as many seats in the Chamber of deputies as Berlusconi (340 vs 124) but only 0.4% more in the percentage table (29.5% vs 29.1%).
For example, Bersani has almost three times as many seats in the Chamber of deputies as Berlusconi (340 vs 124) but only 0.4% more in the percentage table (29.5% vs 29.1%).
People from showbiz never get anywhere in serious politics. I mean whoever heard of,
Arnold Schwarzeneger?
Ronald Reagan?
Personally I'd rather vote for someone who achieved something in the real world, however modest, rather then the cretins of all UK parties who have no experience outside the Oxbridge to Westminster gravy train.
Arnold Schwarzeneger?
Ronald Reagan?
Personally I'd rather vote for someone who achieved something in the real world, however modest, rather then the cretins of all UK parties who have no experience outside the Oxbridge to Westminster gravy train.
jhfozzy said:
I'm probably missing something really important here so please forgive my ignorance, but does anyone else look at those percentages and think they don't correspond with the actual number of seats?
For example, Bersani has almost three times as many seats in the Chamber of deputies as Berlusconi (340 vs 124) but only 0.4% more in the percentage table (29.5% vs 29.1%).
Maybe the Senate uses PR and the chamber FPTP? For example, Bersani has almost three times as many seats in the Chamber of deputies as Berlusconi (340 vs 124) but only 0.4% more in the percentage table (29.5% vs 29.1%).
Eric Mc said:
No it's not.
It's very easy to tear down.
Far more difficult to build something new that works.
That's all true. Difficult to the point of impossibility, without actual violent revolution I would suggest - the system is too sewn up. So the political class shouldn't be surprised when the people reject their corruption and/or It's very easy to tear down.
Far more difficult to build something new that works.
unnacountable machinations, as a quater of Italy's electorate just did. The "two fingers" vote is pretty much the only peaceful option left to a dissatisfied people now.
Eric Mc said:
No point in setting up a party until you know what the party stands "for". This clown (and others like him) are very good at telling everybody what they are "against".
By that you mean Ed Milliband? 
At the moment, their position is simply 'We'd make less cuts than the Conservatives, and give you more money than the Conservatives."
Nothing like Beppe Grillo can come to prominence in the UK until we have PR, so this discussion is moot. Everyone who voted to keep FPTP recently is complicit in keeping the Lab-Con axis alive and well. Opportunity for a glimmer of hope of any kind of change was lost then, and it's unlikely to to rise again in our lifetimes with the current media-led destruction of the only mainstream party offering Electoral Reform. Look at UKIP. Empty vessels in Parliamentary terms and will remain so. Anyone else trying the same schtick in this country is equally doomed to fail.
unrepentant said:
jhfozzy said:
I'm probably missing something really important here so please forgive my ignorance, but does anyone else look at those percentages and think they don't correspond with the actual number of seats?
For example, Bersani has almost three times as many seats in the Chamber of deputies as Berlusconi (340 vs 124) but only 0.4% more in the percentage table (29.5% vs 29.1%).
Maybe the Senate uses PR and the chamber FPTP? For example, Bersani has almost three times as many seats in the Chamber of deputies as Berlusconi (340 vs 124) but only 0.4% more in the percentage table (29.5% vs 29.1%).
Ozzie Osmond said:
People from showbiz never get anywhere in serious politics. I mean whoever heard of,
Arnold Schwarzeneger?
Ronald Reagan?
Personally I'd rather vote for someone who achieved something in the real world, however modest, rather then the cretins of all UK parties who have no experience outside the Oxbridge to Westminster gravy train.
Make up your mind not that long ago you were dissmissing UKIP and Farage now you want someone with some expirance of something outside politics!!! Arnold Schwarzeneger?
Ronald Reagan?
Personally I'd rather vote for someone who achieved something in the real world, however modest, rather then the cretins of all UK parties who have no experience outside the Oxbridge to Westminster gravy train.
Eric Mc said:
No point in setting up a party until you know what the party stands "for". This clown (and others like him) are very good at telling everybody what they are "against".
I though that to but reading the policies down the side on the BBC website:- New electoral system, based on proportional representation; halving number of MPs; end of public funding of parties.
- His MPs will only take part of their salary, and will serve a maximum two terms.
- Support for renewable energy, free internet provision.
- Voting age reduced to 16 (from 18) and 18 for the Senate (from 25).
- Referendum on leaving euro.
I might have voted for them as well given the state of Italian politics.
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