Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 2

Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 2

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AreOut

3,658 posts

160 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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voyds9 said:
Electric cars not so green

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-287...

Could be upto 3.5x more polluting than petrol

Looks like the dailymail is catching up
even if it's just 1.5x it's pointless

Terminator X

14,920 posts

203 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
quotequote all
Mr GrimNasty said:
BBC Arctic Sea Ice - "Two cool summers in a row have now allowed the pack to increase and then hold on to a good deal of its volume."

Hold on, globally it was supposedly the hottest year in infinity, of all time, ever - did no one tell the Arctic?
It was though wasn't it, by 0.01 degrees C? If that carries on then in 100 years it will be 1 degree C hotter! Open your eyes man!

TX.

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
quotequote all
voyds9 said:
Electric cars not so green

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-287...

Could be upto 3.5x more polluting than petrol

Looks like the dailymail is catching up
And I bet that doesn't even look at the damage caused to the environment mining for the minerals for the battery.

I would at least expect it to account for the production (including shipping it across the world) though and the destruction of the car it replaces.

turbobloke

103,736 posts

259 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
quotequote all
Jasandjules said:
voyds9 said:
Electric cars not so green

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-287...

Could be upto 3.5x more polluting than petrol

Looks like the dailymail is catching up
And I bet that doesn't even look at the damage caused to the environment mining for the minerals for the battery.

I would at least expect it to account for the production (including shipping it across the world) though and the destruction of the car it replaces.
Remember Dust to Dust from CNW Marketing Research? Hybrids worse than Hummers etc and as the report name suggests the study included everything.

If so you may also remember that the 'paper' which true believers waved around claiming to 'refute' the above report findings was from, wait for it, Peter Gleick. That's the Peter Gleick of Pacific Institute fame or perhaps infamy after he apologised for the deception in using a false name to obtain files from the Heartland Institute..."My judgment was blinded by my frustration". Poor chap, after all surely keeping the faith justifies it anyway.

Blib

43,789 posts

196 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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Shirley, "My judgement was blinded by my faith"?

turbobloke

103,736 posts

259 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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Blib said:
Shirley, "My judgement was blinded by my faith"?
Indeed. The blessings of Gaia work in mysterious ways to confound data.

Mr GrimNasty

8,172 posts

169 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
BBC Arctic Sea Ice - "Two cool summers in a row have now allowed the pack to increase and then hold on to a good deal of its volume."

Hold on, globally it was supposedly the hottest year in infinity, of all time, ever - did no one tell the Arctic?
It was though wasn't it, by 0.01 degrees C? If that carries on then in 100 years it will be 1 degree C hotter! Open your eyes man!

TX.
I've been reading the BBC to guide me to the light. Just for entertainment, I've been counting the number of times this phrase appears:-

"The fear is that as the planet warms........"

rovermorris999

5,195 posts

188 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
quotequote all
Mr GrimNasty said:
I've been reading the BBC to guide me to the light. Just for entertainment, I've been counting the number of times this phrase appears:-

"The fear is that as the planet warms........"
A favourite phrase I look out for in the Economist magazine is 'in a warming world' which is liberally used in all sorts of articles nothing to do with climate change. Keep the faith!

Diderot

7,263 posts

191 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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rovermorris999 said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
I've been reading the BBC to guide me to the light. Just for entertainment, I've been counting the number of times this phrase appears:-

"The fear is that as the planet warms........"
A favourite phrase I look out for in the Economist magazine is 'in a warming world' which is liberally used in all sorts of articles nothing to do with climate change. Keep the faith!
You beat me to it.

voyds9

8,488 posts

282 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
It was though wasn't it, by 0.01 degrees C? If that carries on then in 100 years it will be 1 degree C hotter! Open your eyes man!

TX.
With an error of +/- 1.00C wink

turbobloke

103,736 posts

259 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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AKA 'would you distrust a thief when out of jail or only when they are convicted again and back in jail'.


turbobloke

103,736 posts

259 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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New Era Of Cheap Energy Will Accelerate Collapse Of Green Energy Myth

The falling oil prices that are reshaping the global economy could derail the green energy revolution by making renewable power sources prohibitively bad value, experts have warned. A new “era of cheap oil” would be good news for consumers and motorists – but analysts say the consequences for politics, industry and the climate could be even more radical. The ripple effects could help the Conservatives to remain in power at next year’s general election by making voters feel richer as bills fall – while hurting Scotland’s oil-reliant economy and setting back its campaign for independence.

Tim Bawden, The Independent, 12 December 2014


The biggest threat posed by falling oil and gas prices – in the UK and globally – is to the renewable energy industry dominated by wind- solar- and hydro-power, experts say. “Renewable energy subsidies have been mostly sold to the public on the basis of the economic benefits,” said Peter Atherton, an energy analyst with Liberum Capital. “But the economic arguments hinged on the idea that fossil fuel prices would get more expensive, while expensive renewable subsidies would be able to come down over time. That’s looking doubtful now.”

Tim Bawden, The Independent, 12 December 2014



rovermorris999

5,195 posts

188 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
quotequote all
Guam said:
Good post on JC on the Plateau (the preferred term to Pause or hiatus it now appears) smile
http://judithcurry.com/2014/12/15/will-a-return-of...
That is good reading. Let's hope those in charge read it and act accordingly. I won't hold my breath. Any comments from our resident warmists on the article?

motco

15,918 posts

245 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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turbobloke

103,736 posts

259 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
quotequote all
motco said:
hehe

As carbon dioxide - from any source - doesn't precede temperature changes in the data record, as required by the general principle of causality, Tufty can rest easy in his drey.

dickymint

24,089 posts

257 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
quotequote all
^^^ never new Squirells lived underground - sneaky fkers!

turbobloke

103,736 posts

259 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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dickymint said:
^^^ never new Squirells lived underground - sneaky fkers!
Change in behaviour due to global warming. Proof positive, Shirley.

AreOut

3,658 posts

160 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
quotequote all
"Dr Sue Natali, from Woods Hole Research Center in Massachusetts, and Nigel Golden, from the University of Wisconsin, spent eight days in the Kolyma River watershed in north-east Siberia, Russia,"

so RUSSIAN squirrels, more sanctions please!

turbobloke

103,736 posts

259 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
quotequote all
How Obama and His Environmental Base Are Planning to Eradicate the Oil and Gas Industry

Why does the Environmental Protection Agency’s regulatory war against hydraulic fracturing look like the Natural Resources Defense Council’s 2007 agenda for eliminating domestic oil and natural gas development?

Because it is.

President Obama is coordinating with far-left environmental activists to wage an all-out assault on American oil and natural gas. The NRDC’s unjustifiable access to such anti-fracking regulatory power and the diversion of $8.4 million in taxpayer dollars to its coffers is highlighted in an October report from the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee minority staff titled, “Setting the Record Straight: Hydraulic Fracturing and America’s Energy Revolution.”

The 111-page committee report opens by citing the enormously positive impacts of America’s oil and natural gas renaissance, which has: created and sustained millions of jobs and revitalized our manufacturing sector; Provided greater energy security and geopolitical strength while reducing our trade deficit; Lowered domestic energy prices both in our homes and at the gasoline pump.

But the emphasis is on those who would obliterate that renaissance. The message to the public is a warning: President Obama is coordinating with far-left environmental activists such as the aggressive NRDC and the Sierra Club, along with their millionaire board members, their Hollywood celebrity boosters and their “philanthropic” funders, such as the rabidly anti-fracking Park Foundation, to wage an all-out assault to shut down domestic production of American oil and natural gas.

The report notes that “the price of energy is no object to them; they can afford to pay their energy bills at virtually any price.” They can dump hundreds of millions of dollars into a coordinated campaign against affordable energy, decrease the standard of living for middle-class America and devastate the poor without a qualm.

Specifically, NRDC and other groups are “initiating legal challenges to force regulatory action with sue-and-settle arrangements” the Sierra Club has received more than $19 million and the NRDC $252,004 in EPA-friendly settlements.

The most insidious attack is “blurring the scientific literature with spurious studies.”

The foremost example is a 2011 Cornell University report by two biologists and an engineer who “falsely concluded that the life-cycle emissions from natural gas development emit more greenhouse gases than coal,” which was touted by The New York Times as “settled science” useful to silence defenders of fracking. But it was, in fact, science made for hire.

Lead author Robert W. Howarth “was approached by the Park Foundation in 2010 and asked to write an academic article that would make a case that shale gas was a dangerous, polluting fuel. That same year, Park Foundation gave Cornell University $135,000 for Howarth’s study,” the report said.

Howarth’s “outdated and manipulated data” were so wrong that his study was refuted by his own Cornell colleagues, state regulators, some environmental groups and even Obama’s White House.

The Park Foundation’s IRS Form 990PF reports from recent years reveal anti-fracking grants totaling more than $3 million to media outlets, including the American Prospect, Earth Talk, Grist, Mother Jones, the Nation and Yes! Magazine, along with activist groups including Earthworks, Food and Water Watch, Friends of the Earth, Greenpeace, Media Matters for America and a network of about 50 others.

“This strategically organized alliance,” says the report, “has gone to great lengths to misconstrue facts, falsify science, and manufacture risks in order to vilify hydraulic fracturing” while ignoring the numerous failed “green” stimulus projects, including Solyndra.

More:

http://www.icecap.us/

http://dailysignal.com/2014/12/12/obama-environmen...

Mr GrimNasty

8,172 posts

169 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
quotequote all
motco said:
Warning, may contain the phrase "The fear is that as the planet warms........", and nuts.

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