Prospective 991 GT3 Owners Discussion

[JJMatrixx]

jonnywalker46 said:

Chipper said:

How many of you lot are going for the ceramics?

I think these should be standard on the GT3 like the new Turbo S

I'd rather they kept the base price low and kept them as an option.

[jonnywalker46]

JJMatrixx said:

I'd rather they kept the base price low and kept them as an option.

If it was 3k i would actually add them but 6k I just cant see it

[dazren]

jonnywalker46 said:

If it was 3k i would actually add them but 6k I just cant see it

I'm planning on keeping my 991GT3 for the long term and doing at least 7/8k miles hooning a year in it. If I had faith that PCCB would last the life of the car, for £6k I would order them. Sadly I don't believe they will last 100k+ miles of hard mountain/hooning/track type driving. The fact Porsche now offer a steel trackday brake set for those cars running PCCB is quite telling. Cost/benefit doesn't fit for my proposed length of ownership and usage.

You mentioned earlier that PCCB should be a the only option like on the turbo S. I almost cancelled my slot over the PDK, I most definitely would have cancelled if PCCB were also thrown at us.

[RSVP911]

jonnywalker46 said:

If it was 3k i would actually add them but 6k I just cant see it

Agree - I'd pay £k3 - shall we speak to Porsche together - I'm sure they'd do this as long as we kept it secret - dohhhh !

[rosino]

I'd be interested to hear what Chris Monkey H. thought of the steel set-up... in a Ferrari style way (when they released the F430) all press cars seem to be PCCB equipped.. his was the only one with red calipers.

I would like to know how the Steel set up copes (should be very good with 380mm good quality material all round me thinks)... b/c the F430 were mostly ordered with steels back in the day which :
1. made them look ridiculous with ppl thinking it had CDs as opposed to brakes behind the huge 19' rims..
2. would fade in a hearbeat.. good driver mate of mine could not do more than 3/4 of 1 Ring lap (which is brake friendly..) before pedal going completely soft..

Kinda betting on the fact Porsche would know better than provide a car with anything else than astonishing braking power/resistance.. at the moment am on no PCCB mind

[stefan1]

isaldiri said:

stefan1 said:

I offered my 4.0 to Evo for their group test - and so had a chance to drive the new car on that day. It was great fun, and great to meet a lot of the Evo team.

Interesting to read your opinion of the car earlier. No doubt the new gt3 is exceedingly quick and capable but if I could ask, how did you think it compared to the 997 gt3 in terms of driver involvement/enjoyment?

The short answer is that I am someone who prefers the type of engagement offered by a manual gearbox car. The older car (my 4.0) is harder to drive quickly, demands more of the driver in terms of judging throttle applications, and offers the fun and involvement of heel & toe changes. It is also far stiffer, and so you need to plan your line more carefully to get the car straight over the larger bumps and yumps on a typical B-road.

But I also appreciate the upsides that come with the enhancements in the new GT3. By way of anaology, I am fortunate enough to own a CGT (bought in 2006). It is an intensely engaging car, and is entirely passive (bar a very basic traction control system). Driving it fast is all down to the driver - screw it up, and it will tell you! It is endlessly engaging, and it will take me a lifetime to master it (i.e. I never will - but I will love trying!).

But I have recently also bought a McLaren 12C. It has the same power and torque as the CGT, but is the polar opposite insofar as it is car with multiple systems to help the driver (active suspension, paddles, brake steer etc.). It is orders of magnitude easier to drive as fast as the CGT. In the 12C I appreciate different things - the ability to focus entirely on precision of line and turn in point - because I don't have to worry about when to slot in a manual downchange. I also love double clutch gearboxes for the way it allows a virtually continuous surge of acceleration - that in itself has its own thrills. I also marvel at the seamless integration of the technology into the driving experience. It is an amazing machine.

So with that context, I also really enjoyed the new GT3. It is very different to the older, more analogue cars - and feels like the biggest evolution yet. I admired its enormous ability to cross the ground, and it has bags of character (that engine!).

But ultimately given a choice of just one car for a Sunday blast, I would take the 4.0 - I'd make less progress, but I'd enjoy myself just that bit more along the way.

Cheers

[RSVP911]

stefan1 said:

The short answer is that I am someone who prefers the type of engagement offered by a manual gearbox car. The older car (my 4.0) is harder to drive quickly, demands more of the driver in terms of judging throttle applications, and offers the fun and involvement of heel & toe changes. It is also far stiffer, and so you need to plan your line more carefully to get the car straight over the larger bumps and yumps on a typical B-road.

But I also appreciate the upsides that come with the enhancements in the new GT3. By way of anaology, I am fortunate enough to own a CGT (bought in 2006). It is an intensely engaging car, and is entirely passive (bar a very basic traction control system). Driving it fast is all down to the driver - screw it up, and it will tell you! It is endlessly engaging, and it will take me a lifetime to master it (i.e. I never will - but I will love trying!).

But I have recently also bought a McLaren 12C. It has the same power and torque as the CGT, but is the polar opposite insofar as it is car with multiple systems to help the driver (active suspension, paddles, brake steer etc.). It is orders of magnitude easier to drive as fast as the CGT. In the 12C I appreciate different things - the ability to focus entirely on precision of line and turn in point - because I don't have to worry about when to slot in a manual downchange. I also love double clutch gearboxes for the way it allows a virtually continuous surge of acceleration - that in itself has its own thrills. I also marvel at the seamless integration of the technology into the driving experience. It is an amazing machine.

So with that context, I also really enjoyed the new GT3. It is very different to the older, more analogue cars - and feels like the biggest evolution yet. I admired its enormous ability to cross the ground, and it has bags of character (that engine!).

But ultimately given a choice of just one car for a Sunday blast, I would take the 4.0 - I'd make less progress, but I'd enjoy myself just that bit more along the way.

Cheers

V interesting post - thanks

[mollytherocker]

RSVP911 said:

V interesting post - thanks

Agreed, very interesting and well balanced, unbiased opinion.

[isaldiri]

stefan1 said:

The short answer is that I am someone who prefers the type of engagement offered by a manual gearbox car. The older car (my 4.0) is harder to drive quickly, demands more of the driver in terms of judging throttle applications, and offers the fun and involvement of heel & toe changes. It is also far stiffer, and so you need to plan your line more carefully to get the car straight over the larger bumps and yumps on a typical B-road.

But I also appreciate the upsides that come with the enhancements in the new GT3. By way of anaology, I am fortunate enough to own a CGT (bought in 2006). It is an intensely engaging car, and is entirely passive (bar a very basic traction control system). Driving it fast is all down to the driver - screw it up, and it will tell you! It is endlessly engaging, and it will take me a lifetime to master it (i.e. I never will - but I will love trying!).

But I have recently also bought a McLaren 12C. It has the same power and torque as the CGT, but is the polar opposite insofar as it is car with multiple systems to help the driver (active suspension, paddles, brake steer etc.). It is orders of magnitude easier to drive as fast as the CGT. In the 12C I appreciate different things - the ability to focus entirely on precision of line and turn in point - because I don't have to worry about when to slot in a manual downchange. I also love double clutch gearboxes for the way it allows a virtually continuous surge of acceleration - that in itself has its own thrills. I also marvel at the seamless integration of the technology into the driving experience. It is an amazing machine.

So with that context, I also really enjoyed the new GT3. It is very different to the older, more analogue cars - and feels like the biggest evolution yet. I admired its enormous ability to cross the ground, and it has bags of character (that engine!).

But ultimately given a choice of just one car for a Sunday blast, I would take the 4.0 - I'd make less progress, but I'd enjoy myself just that bit more along the way.

Cheers

Very interesting thanks for that.

Somewhat coincidentially, think I can kind of understand what you mean. Have had a 12c for almost a year and was recently been lucky enough to drive a couple of hundred miles in a CGT. The gt was utterly enthralling to drive, unlike any other road car I have ever driven and the overriding impression of the gt is a race car disguised with some road car amenities. At risk of using a very lazy automotive journalists cliche, 'visceral' is the only word I could use to accurately describe the driving experience. The 12c I think is a great road car and delivers it's speed very easily but the cgt is on different level of engagement.

[RSVP911]

stefan1 said:

The short answer is that I am someone who prefers the type of engagement offered by a manual gearbox car. The older car (my 4.0) is harder to drive quickly, demands more of the driver in terms of judging throttle applications, and offers the fun and involvement of heel & toe changes. It is also far stiffer, and so you need to plan your line more carefully to get the car straight over the larger bumps and yumps on a typical B-road.

But I also appreciate the upsides that come with the enhancements in the new GT3. By way of anaology, I am fortunate enough to own a CGT (bought in 2006). It is an intensely engaging car, and is entirely passive (bar a very basic traction control system). Driving it fast is all down to the driver - screw it up, and it will tell you! It is endlessly engaging, and it will take me a lifetime to master it (i.e. I never will - but I will love trying!).

But I have recently also bought a McLaren 12C. It has the same power and torque as the CGT, but is the polar opposite insofar as it is car with multiple systems to help the driver (active suspension, paddles, brake steer etc.). It is orders of magnitude easier to drive as fast as the CGT. In the 12C I appreciate different things - the ability to focus entirely on precision of line and turn in point - because I don't have to worry about when to slot in a manual downchange. I also love double clutch gearboxes for the way it allows a virtually continuous surge of acceleration - that in itself has its own thrills. I also marvel at the seamless integration of the technology into the driving experience. It is an amazing machine.

So with that context, I also really enjoyed the new GT3. It is very different to the older, more analogue cars - and feels like the biggest evolution yet. I admired its enormous ability to cross the ground, and it has bags of character (that engine!).

But ultimately given a choice of just one car for a Sunday blast, I would take the 4.0 - I'd make less progress, but I'd enjoy myself just that bit more along the way.

Cheers

Can you tell me a little about the CGT - how many we're made and when - I saw one in my OPC - I think it was over £k 300 and didn't really understand why ? Cheers

[isaldiri]

RSVP911 said:

Can you tell me a little about the CGT - how many we're made and when - I saw one in my OPC - I think it was over £k 300 and didn't really understand why ? Cheers

There are others far better placed than me to reply on this but I'll give it a start.

1270 GTs in total I believe, 04-06 was the production run, car is full carbon fibre and is really built to an incredible standard. For a carbon car built to that standard 300k actually was cheap IMHO for what it is...

[JJMatrixx]

isaldiri said:

RSVP911 said:

Can you tell me a little about the CGT - how many we're made and when - I saw one in my OPC - I think it was over £k 300 and didn't really understand why ? Cheers

There are others far better placed than me to reply on this but I'll give it a start.

1270 GTs in total I believe, 04-06 was the production run, car is full carbon fibre and is really built to an incredible standard. For a carbon car built to that standard 300k actually was cheap IMHO for what it is...

All the ones for sale on PH are left hookers - how many built were RHD?

[isaldiri]

JJMatrixx said:

All the ones for sale on PH are left hookers - how many built were RHD?

All were LHD only.

Edit: where's wtdoom when one needs him as the resident source of all CGT knowledge!

[RSVP911]

isaldiri said:

There are others far better placed than me to reply on this but I'll give it a start.

1270 GTs in total I believe, 04-06 was the production run, car is full carbon fibre and is really built to an incredible standard. For a carbon car built to that standard 300k actually was cheap IMHO for what it is...

Thanks - do you know roughly how many made it to the UK ?

[isaldiri]

RSVP911 said:

Thanks - do you know roughly how many made it to the UK ?

Not really sure on that. If I remember correctly there were ~50 C16 (UK ordered) cars but given the GBP strength at the time quite a few were imported over from the US and Europe.

[stefan1]

RSVP911 said:

isaldiri said:

There are others far better placed than me to reply on this but I'll give it a start.

1270 GTs in total I believe, 04-06 was the production run, car is full carbon fibre and is really built to an incredible standard. For a carbon car built to that standard 300k actually was cheap IMHO for what it is...

Thanks - do you know roughly how many made it to the UK ?

There are, I believe, 50 official UK (C16) cars, but quite a few cars were imported from the US into the UK, so OPC Reading (who are the only people who can service the car) now look after around 70.

The idea for the car came from a stillborn Le Mans project. A 5.5 litre engine had been designed for a new Le Mans racing car, but then the rules changed so the engine could not be used. So Porsche had the bright idea of building a supercar around this engine. It is very race car in philosophy - carbon tub and carbon rear subframe (to which the engine is bolted), inboard suspension, lots of aero (completely flat undertray, rear diffuser, lower rear wishbones shaped like a wing to add downforce). The engine is amazing - gear driven cams (very race car), I believe 9 or 10 oil pumps to scavenge oil at high g-loads, systems to help the engine warm up quickly (about 3 minutes to 80 deg C oil temp). The gearbox is bespoke, as is the flexball gear linkage, which is super fast and slick. And then of course the unfairly infamous clutch which is carbon ceramic. Very, very small in diameter to allow a very low CoG for the drivetrain, and very strong. Very easy to use once you trust the anti-stall software when pulling away from rest. Avoid slipping the clutch and it will last 50k miles plus. There are lots of other lovely touches, like the rising centre console placing the gearlever right next to the steering wheel, and the beautiful aluminium pedals which are perfect for H&T.

The engine note is best from the outside, but with the roof off you can also enjoy the induction sound and F1-V10 style exhaust howl. Tunnels are a lot of fun!

The engineering depth is everything you'd expect of Porsche, meaning big mileages are no problem at all. I know of several cars with 50k miles of more, needing little more than regular servicing.

All told, it's a gem. I was not all surprised that in the previous edition of Evo it was ranked alongside the McLaren F1 and F50 as the best analogue supercar.

Cheers

[MCSL]

forward to 9.15mins for CGT p0rn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCpCbZaD8xc

[RSVP911]

RSVP911 said:

stefan1 said:

There are, I believe, 50 official UK (C16) cars, but quite a few cars were imported from the US into the UK, so OPC Reading (who are the only people who can service the car) now look after around 70.

The idea for the car came from a stillborn Le Mans project. A 5.5 litre engine had been designed for a new Le Mans racing car, but then the rules changed so the engine could not be used. So Porsche had the bright idea of building a supercar around this engine. It is very race car in philosophy - carbon tub and carbon rear subframe (to which the engine is bolted), inboard suspension, lots of aero (completely flat undertray, rear diffuser, lower rear wishbones shaped like a wing to add downforce). The engine is amazing - gear driven cams (very race car), I believe 9 or 10 oil pumps to scavenge oil at high g-loads, systems to help the engine warm up quickly (about 3 minutes to 80 deg C oil temp). The gearbox is bespoke, as is the flexball gear linkage, which is super fast and slick. And then of course the unfairly infamous clutch which is carbon ceramic. Very, very small in diameter to allow a very low CoG for the drivetrain, and very strong. Very easy to use once you trust the anti-stall software when pulling away from rest. Avoid slipping the clutch and it will last 50k miles plus. There are lots of other lovely touches, like the rising centre console placing the gearlever right next to the steering wheel, and the beautiful aluminium pedals which are perfect for H&T.

The engine note is best from the outside, but with the roof off you can also enjoy the induction sound and F1-V10 style exhaust howl. Tunnels are a lot of fun!

The engineering depth is everything you'd expect of Porsche, meaning big mileages are no problem at all. I know of several cars with 50k miles of more, needing little more than regular servicing.

All told, it's a gem. I was not all surprised that in the previous edition of Evo it was ranked alongside the McLaren F1 and F50 as the best analogue supercar.

Cheers

Thanks very interesting , I didn't know anything about it so I appreciate the lesson - if I win the lottery it will be one to try Sounds amazing and very special but I would need someone to teach me how to drive it - that's really why I've bought the 991 GT3 - great drive for the novice really

[RSVP911]

MCSL said:

forward to 9.15mins for CGT p0rn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCpCbZaD8xc

Thanks , that looks amazing - great noise !!! Thanks for pointing me to the clip

[mollytherocker]

RSVP911 said:

....that's really why I've bought the 991 GT3 - great drive for the novice really

Should a GT3 be for the novice?