2 Lorry drivers arrested after nasty crash on the M25 today.

[MarshPhantom]

I got delayed today in the chaos caused by this accident that closed the M25 for 5 hrs at Lakeside. The incident involved 3 HGVs and 5 cars, The Mail are reporting that 2 truck drivers have been arrested for causing death by dangerous driving.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2302971/M2...

[Digga]

MarshPhantom said:

I got delayed today in the chaos caused by this accident that closed the M25 for 5 hrs at Lakeside. The incident involved 3 HGVs and 5 cars, The Mail are reporting that 2 truck drivers have been arrested for causing death by dangerous driving.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2302971/M2...

Horrific. Thre trucks there in the pictures, one English (Downtons sponsor Gloucester RUFC) the other two look foreign IMHO. I wqnder which are the two who are alleged to have driven dangerously...

[Adrian W]

It is scary driving on the M25 seems more and more unrestricted trucks about, your doing 70 and an artic is three feet from your rear bumper with no chance of stopping if something goes wrong, some even flash you to go faster.

[Digga]

Adrian W said:

It is scary driving on the M25 seems more and more unrestricted trucks about, your doing 70 and an artic is three feet from your rear bumper with no chance of stopping if something goes wrong, some even flash you to go faster.

Euro s by any chance? IIRC most UK trucks are now restricted.

Looking at the pictures of the latest wreck, it seems possible this was (yet another) LHD-LGV blind-spot crash.

[speedy_thrills]

I don't know. AB Texel seem to be UK based as is Downton. Who is Spath though, the truck at the rear that's avoided nasty things?

[Digga]

speedy_thrills said:

I don't know. AB Texel seem to be UK based as is Downton.

AB Texel are Dutch.

[airportparking]

Euro or not trucks need to be kept in certain lanes , that's my view and I don't care about the flaming I will get, to big take too long to stop

[Silver993tt]

Also, no trucks allowed to operate on Sundays/public holidays as is the case in Germany.

Edited by Silver993tt on Wednesday 3rd April 10:44

[Brite spark]

Polish driver has been released without charge, German driver still held.

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/10329257.UPDATE_...

[audidoody]

A regular route for me (not yesterday TG). Around the Brentwood stretch an uphill gradient and main danger is from HGV's pulling out when you are alongside them and being restricted from getting out the way by traffic in front and to the right. There's usually another car up your chuff so emergency braking is not usually an option. There are many times I would have happily committed murder on an HGV driver for unnecessary near-death experiences I have been subjected to on this stretch of the M25. And all because they want to travel at a relatively faster speed of 2mph than the artic in front of them.

[Digga]

In this day and age, where even boggo cars are fitted with devices to help mogadon mothers from reversing into bollards, a safe means of eradicating HGV blind-spots cannot be impossible to concieve. FWIW, I think the M25 is one of the particularly dangerous stretches of road - where there are large numbers of LHD trucks just off the Eurotunnel or ferry and still struggling with the combined lack of sleep and translation to driving on the left.

[Justin Cyder]

I'd be interested to see the outcome of the investigations. CM Downton is someone I trade with & they have an impeccable reputation. Still it only takes a momentary lapse when you're controlling a 44 ton machine at 56mph to cause carnage. Let's see what the police say in due course.

[Digga]

Justin Cyder said:

I'd be interested to see the outcome of the investigations. CM Downton is someone I trade with & they have an impeccable reputation. Still it only takes a momentary lapse when you're controlling a 44 ton machine at 56mph to cause carnage. Let's see what the police say in due course.

Well according to last news article another poster linked to, the only two drivers arrested were German (yet to be charged) and Polish (released without charge).

[Andy Zarse]

Adrian W said:

It is scary driving on the M25 seems more and more unrestricted trucks about, your doing 70 and an artic is three feet from your rear bumper with no chance of stopping if something goes wrong, some even flash you to go faster.

A couple of weeks ago, late on a sunday evening, I followed a Hungarian artic up the hill out of Dover. I'm guessing he was freighted up and yet he was doing 70mph. Clearly he'd pulled the fuse out of the governor. The UK authorities need to come down like a ton of bricks on these people. Trucks impounded, massive fines, prison sentences on both owner and driver, no holds barred.

[Justin Cyder]

Well let's see what comes of it. The coppers will initially act on witness accounts then when they have cleared the immediate aftermath they'll get into the tachos & more involved investigation work. Being a foreign driver does not automatically make anyone a pill popping death trucker just as working for Downton isn't instant sainthood candidature.

The police will tell us what happened soon enough.

[Digga]

Andy Zarse said:

I'm guessing he was freighted up and yet he was doing 70mph..

Spoke to a British owber-operator once who reckoned his 44 (unrestricted) tonner used to happily pull 80, fully laden on the A14, in the days before the speed cameras.

Justin Cyder said:

The police will tell us what happened soon enough.

It is one thing they're pretty good at, but what the collective authorities have failled to do is address the broader issues of foreign trucks on our roads (and laybys) and the IMHO unfair competition with well-run British firms, many of whom have gone to the wall, because they were forced to play by the book.

[Andy Zarse]

Digga said:

t is one thing they're pretty good at, but what the collective authorities have failled to do is address the broader issues of foreign trucks on our roads (and laybys) and the IMHO unfair competition with well-run British firms, many of whom have gone to the wall, because they were forced to play by the book.

A few years back a mate reported to the police the driver of a Romanian truck who was parked next to us on the Newhaven ferry coming back from Le Mans. The drive wheel tyres were falling to bits and had massive cracks and chunks of rubber missing. When the problem was pointed out to him he basically shrugged his shoulders and swore. Little did he know one of my travelling companions was a logistics manager who knew the rule book inside out...

[B17NNS]

I don't do much in the way of motorway driving but have taken a few longish trips over the last couple of weeks.

It seemed to me that every bit of congestion I encountered was due to one lorry doing 56mph trying overtake another doing 55mph.

[ZR1cliff]

Digga said:

Adrian W said:

It is scary driving on the M25 seems more and more unrestricted trucks about, your doing 70 and an artic is three feet from your rear bumper with no chance of stopping if something goes wrong, some even flash you to go faster.

Euro s by any chance? IIRC most UK trucks are now restricted.

Looking at the pictures of the latest wreck, it seems possible this was (yet another) LHD-LGV blind-spot crash.

I drive an artic out of North Kent, Tilbury docks and Purfleet docks and use this route all the time. Reckon you could be right.

The first artic, at broad side, is obviously empty or carrying a light load, otherwise it would have gone over judging by the arc of it's last travel.


At the begining of the arc is a crumpled heap of a car that looks what he hit. The Downton driver stopped reasonably straight, but I can't see if his tag axle is down, to workout if he is loaded.

The third artic, again foriegn, looks loaded as he's stopped in a hurry and the weight in the back has pushed on thru, causing him to jack-knife.

Without knowing the facts, it looks to me the likely cause is the first had a blindspot knock trying to pull in when a jam was building,or, something slowed drastically ahead of him. The Downton driver also had to brake sharpish, hence being out of line slightly.

As for the third artic, looks like he was too close, or his vision had drawn in.

[ZR1cliff]

Also to add - Of course we don't know what the car drivers were doing and that is at the start of the slip road. Again without knowing the true facts, I can only say what happens to myself and at times cars cut in front of me at the last moment to use a slip road and slam there brakes on, not thinking of how a 44 ton truck is supposed to stop in the space they've created. Might not be just/all the truckers fault?