Oh no - more RTI PAYE questions
Discussion
Trying to get my head around all this PAYE RTI stuff. Small business, 2 employees (one is director), currently using HMRC basic PAYE tools, and planning to use their new RTI equivalent.
I've read somewhere in their info that I can't update the basic PAYE tools software/install their RTI software, until I've done the year end submission for 2012/13. But I believe that I also can't pay anyone until we are running with the new RTI software. So that means we either need to get the EOY submission done pretty quick, or we don't pay anyone for this month. Is this right?
We currently pay wages monthly, on the last day of the month. But if I'm too busy (or for cashflow), it might slip back a bit. Would there be any point sliding our standard monthly pay date to the 6th of the following month, which would then give us a full 30 days to get in the HMRC's month window? Or am I being daft? It would mean that we effectively have a barren month for wages during the changeover, unless I brought the pay date forward instead.
What's all this about a BACS reference requirement? I either pay using regular online banking (faster payments), or credit my director's loan account. Will this matter?
Why have they sent me an employer payment booklet and envelopes, is that still necessary in this day and age? It must cost them a fortune if they are still sending that out to every employer in the land!
I notice that I have to submit 'average working hours' for each employee (I will be in the 30+ category), but that would put me well under the min. wage. Could this be a problem?
I've read somewhere in their info that I can't update the basic PAYE tools software/install their RTI software, until I've done the year end submission for 2012/13. But I believe that I also can't pay anyone until we are running with the new RTI software. So that means we either need to get the EOY submission done pretty quick, or we don't pay anyone for this month. Is this right?
We currently pay wages monthly, on the last day of the month. But if I'm too busy (or for cashflow), it might slip back a bit. Would there be any point sliding our standard monthly pay date to the 6th of the following month, which would then give us a full 30 days to get in the HMRC's month window? Or am I being daft? It would mean that we effectively have a barren month for wages during the changeover, unless I brought the pay date forward instead.
What's all this about a BACS reference requirement? I either pay using regular online banking (faster payments), or credit my director's loan account. Will this matter?
Why have they sent me an employer payment booklet and envelopes, is that still necessary in this day and age? It must cost them a fortune if they are still sending that out to every employer in the land!
I notice that I have to submit 'average working hours' for each employee (I will be in the 30+ category), but that would put me well under the min. wage. Could this be a problem?
mjb1 said:
Why have they sent me an employer payment booklet and envelopes, is that still necessary in this day and age? It must cost them a fortune if they are still sending that out to every employer in the land!
That's one for the "Save the Public Sector 1%" thread.I've used a payroll bureau service of my accountants since I've had just 1 employee (4 now) and all these RTI questions I've not had the headache of. I think my bureau has made the offical payroll day the 3rd or 4th of the month but I'll aways pay employees by the 31st.
So my unhelpful answer is - outsurce payroll and get on with whatever you're good at instead.
mjb1 said:
Trying to get my head around all this PAYE RTI stuff. Small business, 2 employees (one is director), currently using HMRC basic PAYE tools, and planning to use their new RTI equivalent.
I've read somewhere in their info that I can't update the basic PAYE tools software/install their RTI software, until I've done the year end submission for 2012/13. But I believe that I also can't pay anyone until we are running with the new RTI software. So that means we either need to get the EOY submission done pretty quick, or we don't pay anyone for this month. Is this right?
You have to complete year end before using RTI software, or at least that's what I've done. The EOY submission shouldn't take more than 30 mins to do as long as their server isn't busy as it seems to have been all weekend.I've read somewhere in their info that I can't update the basic PAYE tools software/install their RTI software, until I've done the year end submission for 2012/13. But I believe that I also can't pay anyone until we are running with the new RTI software. So that means we either need to get the EOY submission done pretty quick, or we don't pay anyone for this month. Is this right?
Why would you need to alter the payment date?
ETA
http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/anyanswers/question...
Edited by Rollin on Tuesday 9th April 17:26
Mr Overheads said:
So my unhelpful answer is - outsurce payroll and get on with whatever you're good at instead.
That's what I've done. My company has one employee - me - and my accountant is doing all this RTI stuff, which seems to me to me little more than submitting 11 blank returns and 1 real one either from what I can gather. Or something like that. I was paying attention honest.I'm sure uncle Eric will be along in a minute to tell us the real answer.
The 2011/12 P35 and P60's are due by 19 May.
This thread is about procedures for 2013/14 - P35's are now officially dead.
I believe that the OP is right - if using the HMRC product then you have to file 2011/12 before any 2012/13 RTI submissions.
I have bought in specialist software for my payroll bureau, though initially looks more complicated than the old pre-RTI version!
David
This thread is about procedures for 2013/14 - P35's are now officially dead.
I believe that the OP is right - if using the HMRC product then you have to file 2011/12 before any 2012/13 RTI submissions.
I have bought in specialist software for my payroll bureau, though initially looks more complicated than the old pre-RTI version!
David
Same here. I use Iris payroll software. The 21012/13 P35 submission is independent of 2013/14 payroll. I do need to finalise the 2012/13 payroll system before I can start running 2013/14 RTI but the filing of the P35 itself is a separate issue so I can "park" the completed P35s to one side and then file them anytime before 19 May.
Although technically the filing of a P35 for 2013/14 is not officially required - because the regular payroll submissions will cover what used to be submitted annually on the P35 - one aspect of what would have been P35 data will still need to be submitted after 5 April 2014. This is the questionnaire section of the P35 which asks questions about -
Payment of staff/directors free of tax
Payment of expenses
Anyone paid outside UK
Payments to 3rd parties
Whether the company is a service company
This data is still required so a pseudo P35 of some sort will need to be submitted.
And the P11D will still be required if appropriate.
Although technically the filing of a P35 for 2013/14 is not officially required - because the regular payroll submissions will cover what used to be submitted annually on the P35 - one aspect of what would have been P35 data will still need to be submitted after 5 April 2014. This is the questionnaire section of the P35 which asks questions about -
Payment of staff/directors free of tax
Payment of expenses
Anyone paid outside UK
Payments to 3rd parties
Whether the company is a service company
This data is still required so a pseudo P35 of some sort will need to be submitted.
And the P11D will still be required if appropriate.
Been trying to do my first RTI submission, using HMRC's PAYE Basic Tools software. But it just sits on "initialising submission" and never gets any further. It appears to be a known issue, I tried the fix detailed on their website - backup, uninstall, reinstall etc. Called the helpline, they didn't have any more suggestions, other than to wait for the update at the end of this month.
Anyone else had this issue? Managed to overcome it?
Anyone else had this issue? Managed to overcome it?
mjb1 said:
Been trying to do my first RTI submission, using HMRC's PAYE Basic Tools software. But it just sits on "initialising submission" and never gets any further. It appears to be a known issue, I tried the fix detailed on their website - backup, uninstall, reinstall etc. Called the helpline, they didn't have any more suggestions, other than to wait for the update at the end of this month.
Anyone else had this issue? Managed to overcome it?
Ask them to switch it off and on again.. Anyone else had this issue? Managed to overcome it?
I did my first monthly RTI submissions a few days ago. Most went well (I had 30 to do) but two failed. The message I received said "You have not been invited......".
All a bit mysterious so I phoned the HMRC hot line to see what the problem was. The girl I initially spoke to told me I didn't have a "mandate" to make an RTI submission. This was new and strange terminology to me so I had to ask her what she meant by not having a "mandate". Was it because I wasn't listed as the PAYE agent for the client or was it because the client wasn't being allowed to make an RTI submission for some reason? It turned out to be the latter.
Of course, when I asked what that specific reason was, I obviously exceeded the helpline person's pay grade and she wasn't able to tell me. I had to get her to explain whether she wasn't telling me because she wasn't allowed to tell me or because she wasn't able to see the reason on her system. It turned out to be the latter.
To progress the query further she gave me another phone number to call - which I did.
The next lady (blokes don't work for HMRC any more it seems) was able to tell me that the reason the RTI submission was rejected was because the PAYE schemes for both companies had been shut down by HMRC. When I asked why, she said that this was because no PAYE or NI had been paid for a number of years. When I explained to her that employers still have obligations to operate PAYE even if no tax or NI is due (to cover P11Ds etc) she said that she knew that but HMRC still took it on themselves to shut PAYE schemes - without telling the employer or the agent it seems.
The strange thing is is that I had been submitting Nil returns in respect of these two clients on a regular monthly basis - and the annual P35 and P11D - without HMRC flagging up that they had shut the scheme down.
When I pointed this out to her she seemed to think this was OK and admitted that the different divisions of HMRC's PAYE system don't always communicate with each other.
Anyway, she has now re-opened these closed down schemes and told me I should be able to file the RTIs next month.
She also said she wouldn't fine the employers for failing to submit an RTI for May by the due date. Which was nice of her.
HMRC have waived all RTI penalties for the first year of its operation.
All a bit mysterious so I phoned the HMRC hot line to see what the problem was. The girl I initially spoke to told me I didn't have a "mandate" to make an RTI submission. This was new and strange terminology to me so I had to ask her what she meant by not having a "mandate". Was it because I wasn't listed as the PAYE agent for the client or was it because the client wasn't being allowed to make an RTI submission for some reason? It turned out to be the latter.
Of course, when I asked what that specific reason was, I obviously exceeded the helpline person's pay grade and she wasn't able to tell me. I had to get her to explain whether she wasn't telling me because she wasn't allowed to tell me or because she wasn't able to see the reason on her system. It turned out to be the latter.
To progress the query further she gave me another phone number to call - which I did.
The next lady (blokes don't work for HMRC any more it seems) was able to tell me that the reason the RTI submission was rejected was because the PAYE schemes for both companies had been shut down by HMRC. When I asked why, she said that this was because no PAYE or NI had been paid for a number of years. When I explained to her that employers still have obligations to operate PAYE even if no tax or NI is due (to cover P11Ds etc) she said that she knew that but HMRC still took it on themselves to shut PAYE schemes - without telling the employer or the agent it seems.
The strange thing is is that I had been submitting Nil returns in respect of these two clients on a regular monthly basis - and the annual P35 and P11D - without HMRC flagging up that they had shut the scheme down.
When I pointed this out to her she seemed to think this was OK and admitted that the different divisions of HMRC's PAYE system don't always communicate with each other.
Anyway, she has now re-opened these closed down schemes and told me I should be able to file the RTIs next month.
She also said she wouldn't fine the employers for failing to submit an RTI for May by the due date. Which was nice of her.
HMRC have waived all RTI penalties for the first year of its operation.
sumo69 said:
Eric
Have you filed any "nil payment for the month" yet, such as 1 man companies who only get paid annually in March?
Apparently, you have to ask HMRC to put these schemes onto an annual basis or make monthly returns!
David
In the HMRC basic tools software, there is a tick box in each employee's settings called "paid on an irregular basis". The built in help says that if an employee isn't paid regularly (i.e. a submission made), and you haven't ticked the box, after 3 months of non payments HMRC assumes they have left your employment and issues their P45.Have you filed any "nil payment for the month" yet, such as 1 man companies who only get paid annually in March?
Apparently, you have to ask HMRC to put these schemes onto an annual basis or make monthly returns!
David
I assume other software has a similar option, or it might get messy!
On the old PAYE tools, it would show you an electronic equivalent of the P11 working sheet with all payments and deductions for an employee, itemised week by week/month by month. But I can't find that on the new RTI version.
Is it in there? I thought I'd seen it previously, but now I can't find it again. I can view the details for each payment submission, and I can find the YTD totals, but it is very useful to see the whole lot laid out in one table.
Is it in there? I thought I'd seen it previously, but now I can't find it again. I can view the details for each payment submission, and I can find the YTD totals, but it is very useful to see the whole lot laid out in one table.
Thought I might resurrect this thread just to let those who might not have heard that HMRC have postponed (for the THIRD time) the imposition of penalties for late submission of RTI data.
The new date from which penalties will be imposed is now April 2015. This postponement will only apply to employers with 49 or fewer staff/directors etc.
The new date from which penalties will be imposed is now April 2015. This postponement will only apply to employers with 49 or fewer staff/directors etc.
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