GT86 owners - did you consider/drive a M135i?
Discussion
RobM77 said:
Fantuzzi said:
Id like to know if anyone considered a standard elise, which are the same price at 25k.
That is if the car is meant for fun rather than everyday, as no boot everyday as I find in the MR2 can be, um, interesting when shopping...
I was interested in a GT86 and owned an Elise for 3 years. There's a thread about running one everyday currently over on the PH Elise forum: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...That is if the car is meant for fun rather than everyday, as no boot everyday as I find in the MR2 can be, um, interesting when shopping...
I've not driven a GT86, but I should imagine the Elise is much better to drive, but without the practicality. Of course both have Toyota engines, so even in an Elise you benefit from Toyota build quality a bit! The rest of the car isn't up to Toyota standards, but it's really not bad at all and I never had any issues with mine at all.
The only real difference is that modern Elises are less unrefined. They are still noisy, tight for shoulder room, awkward for the uninitiated to enter and exit and have nothing more than an ineffective stereo for gadgets. The seats are fixed back and can only be adjusted fore and aft and the wheel has no adjustment. If you are the right sort of shape, however, they are comfortable once you are in and ride more smoothly than you would expect.
In terms of luggage, this lot went into the boot after I forgot which car I was in:
In terms of luggage, this lot went into the boot after I forgot which car I was in:
Fantuzzi said:
RobM77 said:
Fantuzzi said:
Id like to know if anyone considered a standard elise, which are the same price at 25k.
That is if the car is meant for fun rather than everyday, as no boot everyday as I find in the MR2 can be, um, interesting when shopping...
I was interested in a GT86 and owned an Elise for 3 years. There's a thread about running one everyday currently over on the PH Elise forum: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...That is if the car is meant for fun rather than everyday, as no boot everyday as I find in the MR2 can be, um, interesting when shopping...
I've not driven a GT86, but I should imagine the Elise is much better to drive, but without the practicality. Of course both have Toyota engines, so even in an Elise you benefit from Toyota build quality a bit! The rest of the car isn't up to Toyota standards, but it's really not bad at all and I never had any issues with mine at all.
Had a drive in a GT86 at the weekend. You know, the usual - accompanied test drive - 30 mins max, so not enough of a drive to form a real opinion on the car. However, here are my impressions.
Engine: As others have stated, it's not the greatest powerplant in the world. The test car had only 500 miles on the clock so the engine was still tight, but you really don't feel you have 197Bhp until you get the car over 4500 rpm. At which point, it revs nicely and picks up. You can pile on some speed surprisingly quickly if you rev it properly. The engine doesn't sound great at all though and the induction noise is piped in to the cabin which means the engine resonates from around your feet/drivers door, rather than from the nose of the car. Sounds weird. Also, sounds artificially "gravelly" as if its doing an impression of how a sports car should sound.
Steering: Lovely pointy, but meaty feeling steering. The car wants to turn and feels positive doing so. That said, there is no "feel" really coming back through the steering - its a fully electric set-up
Chassis/tyres: It was a damp day so an interesting test of the tyres/chassis. I gave it half throttle mid corner on one occassion (with TC fully on) and the back stepped out, needing a very slight correction. You can definitely feel that the car doesn't have a surfeit of grip in greasy conditions and would be an oversteer fest if you're so inclined! I'm sure in the bone dry you wouldn't get this feel and would have to provoke the car more to get it to slide, but it does feel like a car set up for some sideways fun if you have the skills to drive it on the throttle. I'm sure for a few rear-drive novices it might catch the unwary out... S2000 style!
Brakes feel very positive with good bite and a nice firm pedal.
Interior and controls: Great driving position, seats hold you very well but are too bolstered over the shoulder for my liking. Steering wheel feels perfectly sized. The clutch is light and the gearboax is snikety and has a short-ish shift. You can feel that the engineering team have put a lot of time into ensuring the controls have the right weight and feel for a sports car. They just feel "right".
The interior doesn't feel like a £25k car in my opinion. Its nice enough - bit dark and plasticky though (typical of Jap cars), but would feel more appropriate to a £15-17k car. The stereo sounded weak and there was a trim rattle from the centre dash near the windscreen. Not brilliant on such a new car.
The rear seats could actually be used by a person of average height (up to say 5'8). I am 6'1" and sat in the back and my head touched the rear window. A smaller person could probably get away with it for a short journey. Foot/Leg room is a real issue for the rear passenger though unless the person in the front seat jacks his/her seat up from the floor and moves it forward.
The seats can of course be folded flat for taking tyres to a trackday/slotting in a bike with a wheel removed.
Summary: I reckon it'd be a really nice daily driver, capable of providing some fun on track/on a B-road. Those rear seats are actually a bonus and a real advantage over something like a Cayman. The engine is a disappointment though - it feels a bit thrashy and uninspiring, but does rev out smoothly to the red line. The chassis balance is the real star.
Engine: As others have stated, it's not the greatest powerplant in the world. The test car had only 500 miles on the clock so the engine was still tight, but you really don't feel you have 197Bhp until you get the car over 4500 rpm. At which point, it revs nicely and picks up. You can pile on some speed surprisingly quickly if you rev it properly. The engine doesn't sound great at all though and the induction noise is piped in to the cabin which means the engine resonates from around your feet/drivers door, rather than from the nose of the car. Sounds weird. Also, sounds artificially "gravelly" as if its doing an impression of how a sports car should sound.
Steering: Lovely pointy, but meaty feeling steering. The car wants to turn and feels positive doing so. That said, there is no "feel" really coming back through the steering - its a fully electric set-up
Chassis/tyres: It was a damp day so an interesting test of the tyres/chassis. I gave it half throttle mid corner on one occassion (with TC fully on) and the back stepped out, needing a very slight correction. You can definitely feel that the car doesn't have a surfeit of grip in greasy conditions and would be an oversteer fest if you're so inclined! I'm sure in the bone dry you wouldn't get this feel and would have to provoke the car more to get it to slide, but it does feel like a car set up for some sideways fun if you have the skills to drive it on the throttle. I'm sure for a few rear-drive novices it might catch the unwary out... S2000 style!
Brakes feel very positive with good bite and a nice firm pedal.
Interior and controls: Great driving position, seats hold you very well but are too bolstered over the shoulder for my liking. Steering wheel feels perfectly sized. The clutch is light and the gearboax is snikety and has a short-ish shift. You can feel that the engineering team have put a lot of time into ensuring the controls have the right weight and feel for a sports car. They just feel "right".
The interior doesn't feel like a £25k car in my opinion. Its nice enough - bit dark and plasticky though (typical of Jap cars), but would feel more appropriate to a £15-17k car. The stereo sounded weak and there was a trim rattle from the centre dash near the windscreen. Not brilliant on such a new car.
The rear seats could actually be used by a person of average height (up to say 5'8). I am 6'1" and sat in the back and my head touched the rear window. A smaller person could probably get away with it for a short journey. Foot/Leg room is a real issue for the rear passenger though unless the person in the front seat jacks his/her seat up from the floor and moves it forward.
The seats can of course be folded flat for taking tyres to a trackday/slotting in a bike with a wheel removed.
Summary: I reckon it'd be a really nice daily driver, capable of providing some fun on track/on a B-road. Those rear seats are actually a bonus and a real advantage over something like a Cayman. The engine is a disappointment though - it feels a bit thrashy and uninspiring, but does rev out smoothly to the red line. The chassis balance is the real star.
RobM77 said:
Fantuzzi said:
RobM77 said:
Fantuzzi said:
Id like to know if anyone considered a standard elise, which are the same price at 25k.
That is if the car is meant for fun rather than everyday, as no boot everyday as I find in the MR2 can be, um, interesting when shopping...
I was interested in a GT86 and owned an Elise for 3 years. There's a thread about running one everyday currently over on the PH Elise forum: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...That is if the car is meant for fun rather than everyday, as no boot everyday as I find in the MR2 can be, um, interesting when shopping...
I've not driven a GT86, but I should imagine the Elise is much better to drive, but without the practicality. Of course both have Toyota engines, so even in an Elise you benefit from Toyota build quality a bit! The rest of the car isn't up to Toyota standards, but it's really not bad at all and I never had any issues with mine at all.
I sympathise with the post above on boot space, my MK3 MR2 is a rather good excuse for not doing the weekly shop myself!
Fantuzzi said:
RobM77 said:
Fantuzzi said:
RobM77 said:
Fantuzzi said:
Id like to know if anyone considered a standard elise, which are the same price at 25k.
That is if the car is meant for fun rather than everyday, as no boot everyday as I find in the MR2 can be, um, interesting when shopping...
I was interested in a GT86 and owned an Elise for 3 years. There's a thread about running one everyday currently over on the PH Elise forum: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...That is if the car is meant for fun rather than everyday, as no boot everyday as I find in the MR2 can be, um, interesting when shopping...
I've not driven a GT86, but I should imagine the Elise is much better to drive, but without the practicality. Of course both have Toyota engines, so even in an Elise you benefit from Toyota build quality a bit! The rest of the car isn't up to Toyota standards, but it's really not bad at all and I never had any issues with mine at all.
I sympathise with the post above on boot space, my MK3 MR2 is a rather good excuse for not doing the weekly shop myself!
I love mk3 MR2s by the way - nice car I had a mk1 for a few years and loved it to bits.
RobM77 said:
Fantuzzi said:
RobM77 said:
Fantuzzi said:
RobM77 said:
Fantuzzi said:
Id like to know if anyone considered a standard elise, which are the same price at 25k.
That is if the car is meant for fun rather than everyday, as no boot everyday as I find in the MR2 can be, um, interesting when shopping...
I was interested in a GT86 and owned an Elise for 3 years. There's a thread about running one everyday currently over on the PH Elise forum: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...That is if the car is meant for fun rather than everyday, as no boot everyday as I find in the MR2 can be, um, interesting when shopping...
I've not driven a GT86, but I should imagine the Elise is much better to drive, but without the practicality. Of course both have Toyota engines, so even in an Elise you benefit from Toyota build quality a bit! The rest of the car isn't up to Toyota standards, but it's really not bad at all and I never had any issues with mine at all.
I sympathise with the post above on boot space, my MK3 MR2 is a rather good excuse for not doing the weekly shop myself!
I love mk3 MR2s by the way - nice car I had a mk1 for a few years and loved it to bits.
Not having driven any Elise, all I can draw is from mags and the like, but wasn't the biggest reason for the majority of the s2 being seen as a lesser drivers car was due to the added understeer by the smaller width front tires on the s2?
Ive been brushing up on them from as I plan to get an s1, from all Ive read it seemed to be that one to pick over the s2. But Id welcome some different opinions!
Fantuzzi said:
RobM77 said:
Fantuzzi said:
RobM77 said:
Fantuzzi said:
RobM77 said:
Fantuzzi said:
Id like to know if anyone considered a standard elise, which are the same price at 25k.
That is if the car is meant for fun rather than everyday, as no boot everyday as I find in the MR2 can be, um, interesting when shopping...
I was interested in a GT86 and owned an Elise for 3 years. There's a thread about running one everyday currently over on the PH Elise forum: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...That is if the car is meant for fun rather than everyday, as no boot everyday as I find in the MR2 can be, um, interesting when shopping...
I've not driven a GT86, but I should imagine the Elise is much better to drive, but without the practicality. Of course both have Toyota engines, so even in an Elise you benefit from Toyota build quality a bit! The rest of the car isn't up to Toyota standards, but it's really not bad at all and I never had any issues with mine at all.
I sympathise with the post above on boot space, my MK3 MR2 is a rather good excuse for not doing the weekly shop myself!
I love mk3 MR2s by the way - nice car I had a mk1 for a few years and loved it to bits.
Not having driven any Elise, all I can draw is from mags and the like, but wasn't the biggest reason for the majority of the s2 being seen as a lesser drivers car was due to the added understeer by the smaller width front tires on the s2?
Ive been brushing up on them from as I plan to get an s1, from all Ive read it seemed to be that one to pick over the s2. But Id welcome some different opinions!
Fantuzzi said:
Yeah the Mr2 great fun, lots of fun!
Not having driven any Elise, all I can draw is from mags and the like, but wasn't the biggest reason for the majority of the s2 being seen as a lesser drivers car was due to the added understeer by the smaller width front tires on the s2?
Ive been brushing up on them from as I plan to get an s1, from all Ive read it seemed to be that one to pick over the s2. But Id welcome some different opinions!
VX220... I'm probably going to change my MR2 for one some time this year - cheaper than the Elise S1, much cheaper to insure and it's got more of the S2 creature comforts (roof etc).Not having driven any Elise, all I can draw is from mags and the like, but wasn't the biggest reason for the majority of the s2 being seen as a lesser drivers car was due to the added understeer by the smaller width front tires on the s2?
Ive been brushing up on them from as I plan to get an s1, from all Ive read it seemed to be that one to pick over the s2. But Id welcome some different opinions!
Only problem is they're so damn rare might have to travel around to find one.
Thread resurrection here. Interesting that the latter half of this thread moved to Elise & GT86 as i've just got a GT for general duties.
Elise has top slot in my garage and will only be replaced by another Lotus until i need a crane to get behind the wheel. The GT is sublime and as the opening posts stated, doesn't compete with a M135i - different market segment. For me it doesn't compete with the Elise either, although it offers similar joys on a b road. After all the press coverage my first drive in the Toyota showed 2 things: 1. it really doesn't have any mid-range punch; and 2. it's actually far more civilised than i expected. No german competitor for sure, but for me it offers enough practicality for most daily chores (no kids), longer runs and is always there to step up for an involving twisty blast. Perfect compromise car i'd say. A short test drive gives some indication of its intent and capability but it needs many more miles to get under your skin and show its depth, whereas i suspect many would be seduced by 10 mins behind the M135 and its obvious solidity and power. As always drive any car yourself, but in the case of the GT86 make sure you give it enough time to shine.
Elise has top slot in my garage and will only be replaced by another Lotus until i need a crane to get behind the wheel. The GT is sublime and as the opening posts stated, doesn't compete with a M135i - different market segment. For me it doesn't compete with the Elise either, although it offers similar joys on a b road. After all the press coverage my first drive in the Toyota showed 2 things: 1. it really doesn't have any mid-range punch; and 2. it's actually far more civilised than i expected. No german competitor for sure, but for me it offers enough practicality for most daily chores (no kids), longer runs and is always there to step up for an involving twisty blast. Perfect compromise car i'd say. A short test drive gives some indication of its intent and capability but it needs many more miles to get under your skin and show its depth, whereas i suspect many would be seduced by 10 mins behind the M135 and its obvious solidity and power. As always drive any car yourself, but in the case of the GT86 make sure you give it enough time to shine.
Robert Elise said:
Thread resurrection here. Interesting that the latter half of this thread moved to Elise & GT86 as i've just got a GT for general duties.
Elise has top slot in my garage and will only be replaced by another Lotus until i need a crane to get behind the wheel. The GT is sublime and as the opening posts stated, doesn't compete with a M135i - different market segment. For me it doesn't compete with the Elise either, although it offers similar joys on a b road. After all the press coverage my first drive in the Toyota showed 2 things: 1. it really doesn't have any mid-range punch; and 2. it's actually far more civilised than i expected. No german competitor for sure, but for me it offers enough practicality for most daily chores (no kids), longer runs and is always there to step up for an involving twisty blast. Perfect compromise car i'd say. A short test drive gives some indication of its intent and capability but it needs many more miles to get under your skin and show its depth, whereas i suspect many would be seduced by 10 mins behind the M135 and its obvious solidity and power. As always drive any car yourself, but in the case of the GT86 make sure you give it enough time to shine.
You sir have my garage 5 years in the future! albeit with the S1. The GT seems to be a perfect car that can be used for (admittedly limited) daily duties. I think whilst the M135i is meant to be rather good the bit that puts me off is the often repeated 'not much steering feel' - the bane of the modern cars - but will have to get behind the wheel of one, preferable the 235i coupe, not a fan of the hatch no need for space.Elise has top slot in my garage and will only be replaced by another Lotus until i need a crane to get behind the wheel. The GT is sublime and as the opening posts stated, doesn't compete with a M135i - different market segment. For me it doesn't compete with the Elise either, although it offers similar joys on a b road. After all the press coverage my first drive in the Toyota showed 2 things: 1. it really doesn't have any mid-range punch; and 2. it's actually far more civilised than i expected. No german competitor for sure, but for me it offers enough practicality for most daily chores (no kids), longer runs and is always there to step up for an involving twisty blast. Perfect compromise car i'd say. A short test drive gives some indication of its intent and capability but it needs many more miles to get under your skin and show its depth, whereas i suspect many would be seduced by 10 mins behind the M135 and its obvious solidity and power. As always drive any car yourself, but in the case of the GT86 make sure you give it enough time to shine.
davyvee said:
Took delivery of a GT 2 weeks ago. Flipping fantastic it is. As chuckable as a RS clio but rear wheel drive. Oh yes.
Do I regret not test driving the cheaper (in lease/pcp terms) M135i? Nope. you can't hide an extra quarter ton.
As for the speed difference, the M135i is 30,995 (evo oct), given the praise the Litchfield option has been given, for the same price (given you go easy on the options), even a supercharged GT86 with the handling pack is still cheap by a whisker.Do I regret not test driving the cheaper (in lease/pcp terms) M135i? Nope. you can't hide an extra quarter ton.
Must admit I have been thinking an awful lot about a Litchfield GT, Black with the leather and alcantara...
Fantuzzi said:
You sir have my garage 5 years in the future! albeit with the S1. The GT seems to be a perfect car that can be used for (admittedly limited) daily duties.
Thank you! They're becoming keepers now, including the 'everyday' GT86. It has that low running cost fun factor that puts it amongst MX5s, MR2s but is just a lot more comfortable and spacious. The pure fun cars are for (regular) fun use but not suited to everyday chores.i also fancy an MR2 at some point.
Elise - go drive, it's the only way. There's a lot more banter amongst Lotus owners than, say, Porsche. An outsider might get the impression that only the S1 is a drivers car and that an S3 is really a hairdresser's car. Reality is that the S3 is still as bare as an S1 apart from some welcome safety gear and an amusing jockstrap cup holder. The GT is a Rolls by comparison. The understeer issue can i) be dialled out, and ii) isn't really there anymore.
My MX5 is going as part of deal with swmbo to rationalise cars ;-( That was an early MK3 which is inherently BAD, but suspension was corrected by WIM and she's a fabulous car now. But i can see her point, we have a fleet of cars and yet when we need to do a long straight journey she still has to 'gracefully fall into her seat' (GT86).
Robert Elise said:
Fantuzzi said:
You sir have my garage 5 years in the future! albeit with the S1. The GT seems to be a perfect car that can be used for (admittedly limited) daily duties.
Thank you! They're becoming keepers now, including the 'everyday' GT86. It has that low running cost fun factor that puts it amongst MX5s, MR2s but is just a lot more comfortable and spacious. The pure fun cars are for (regular) fun use but not suited to everyday chores.i also fancy an MR2 at some point.
Elise - go drive, it's the only way. There's a lot more banter amongst Lotus owners than, say, Porsche. An outsider might get the impression that only the S1 is a drivers car and that an S3 is really a hairdresser's car. Reality is that the S3 is still as bare as an S1 apart from some welcome safety gear and an amusing jockstrap cup holder. The GT is a Rolls by comparison. The understeer issue can i) be dialled out, and ii) isn't really there anymore.
My MX5 is going as part of deal with swmbo to rationalise cars ;-( That was an early MK3 which is inherently BAD, but suspension was corrected by WIM and she's a fabulous car now. But i can see her point, we have a fleet of cars and yet when we need to do a long straight journey she still has to 'gracefully fall into her seat' (GT86).
On the Elise issue, I'm under no impression the later gens aren't ace, its just the S1's style and approach seems to be right what I'm after. Id love to have a play in an S3, see how 'useable' the modern Elise has become with some (minor) creature comforts. But I quite like the idea of something really stripped.
Id have a look at the mk3 MR2, I love mine, they seem to be universally loved. I need some new tyres on mine soon so will be getting some Yokohama ADO8S, so I hoping compared to the cheap as chips tyres the previous owner had put on (basically new tyres when I got it!), the MR2 should be transformed to an even more enjoyable drivers car! At 975kg its only really beaten in lightness by very early mk1 MX5s, and the 138bhp makes it pretty swift if you are willing to use the fun end of the rev range!
nottyash said:
In terms of looks the GT86 wins hands down, in performance the 135 is in another league, the weight can't account for the 120bhp difference of the 3.0 turbo engine.
Price wise, forget rrp. New GT86 are less than 22 grand, and M135 26 grand.
22K seriously, that's insane! Price wise, forget rrp. New GT86 are less than 22 grand, and M135 26 grand.
Is that normal for a new gt86 at a dealer?
http://www.drivethedeal.com/
I got a quote from them before I bought my BRZ. They have relationships with various dealers and were offering around £3k off a new GT86.
They don't offer Subaru, so no deals on the BRZ.
I got a quote from them before I bought my BRZ. They have relationships with various dealers and were offering around £3k off a new GT86.
They don't offer Subaru, so no deals on the BRZ.
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