Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]
Discussion
Derek Smith said:
So will we see a return of the military in Greece? It is not so long ago that a democratic rightist government was seen as too liberal.
Greece, the home of democracy, has hardly been stable over recent years.
If the left leaning government does force what will be, in effect, the economic collapse of the country, there might well be riots in the streets, just the sort of excuse an ambitious army officer might find useful.
My understanding is that this might well force Greece to leave/be kicked out of the EU.
Destabilising the area would be a gift for Russia. The dormant ill-feeling between Greece and Turkey would probably surface again, leaving opportunities for Putin.
If you could not afford to import oil for electricity, let alone businesses, and the nice man offered you gas and oil at a price you could indeed afford, at least in the short term, then you are going to accept.
Surely the Eurocrats have a cunning plan to prevent Greece and the Greeks coming to harm - we haven't seen an inch of it yet but no matter. Make up a rule or two, break a rule or two, make a crass speech, sorted.Greece, the home of democracy, has hardly been stable over recent years.
If the left leaning government does force what will be, in effect, the economic collapse of the country, there might well be riots in the streets, just the sort of excuse an ambitious army officer might find useful.
My understanding is that this might well force Greece to leave/be kicked out of the EU.
Destabilising the area would be a gift for Russia. The dormant ill-feeling between Greece and Turkey would probably surface again, leaving opportunities for Putin.
If you could not afford to import oil for electricity, let alone businesses, and the nice man offered you gas and oil at a price you could indeed afford, at least in the short term, then you are going to accept.
This morning the press here in Germany are running the stories that Tsipras has said that Greece will not be paying the next installment of around €1.6 M.
But, much, much better: The clown known as Varoufakis is threatening to sue the EU if they throw Greece out of the EU.
You couldn't make it up: what has he been smoking?
But, much, much better: The clown known as Varoufakis is threatening to sue the EU if they throw Greece out of the EU.
You couldn't make it up: what has he been smoking?
Derek Smith said:
So will we see a return of the military in Greece? It is not so long ago that a democratic rightist government was seen as too liberal.
Greece, the home of democracy, has hardly been stable over recent years.
If the left leaning government does force what will be, in effect, the economic collapse of the country, there might well be riots in the streets, just the sort of excuse an ambitious army officer might find useful.
My understanding is that this might well force Greece to leave/be kicked out of the EU.
Destabilising the area would be a gift for Russia. The dormant ill-feeling between Greece and Turkey would probably surface again, leaving opportunities for Putin.
If you could not afford to import oil for electricity, let alone businesses, and the nice man offered you gas and oil at a price you could indeed afford, at least in the short term, then you are going to accept.
As the EU has happily led greece to this point without a real solution over the last 5 years or more, to a point of hopelessness and nationalism:Greece, the home of democracy, has hardly been stable over recent years.
If the left leaning government does force what will be, in effect, the economic collapse of the country, there might well be riots in the streets, just the sort of excuse an ambitious army officer might find useful.
My understanding is that this might well force Greece to leave/be kicked out of the EU.
Destabilising the area would be a gift for Russia. The dormant ill-feeling between Greece and Turkey would probably surface again, leaving opportunities for Putin.
If you could not afford to import oil for electricity, let alone businesses, and the nice man offered you gas and oil at a price you could indeed afford, at least in the short term, then you are going to accept.
will the EU do the right thing and give back the Nobel peace prize..?
God I hate the communist Ponzi european edifice and all that goes with it....
Blib said:
But, voting to remain within the euro averts nothing for the Greeks. The only possible outcome for them if thy stay is far worse economic conditions for decades.
Far worse than closed banks with no money to distribute?Where Tsipras is right is that the debt burden is unsustainable, everyone knows that, but a policy of reform followed by debt renegotiation is the only viable way forward imo. If Greece reverts to the Drachma without reform then all of the existing problems will still be there, plus a whole host of new ones.
RYH64E said:
Blib said:
But, voting to remain within the euro averts nothing for the Greeks. The only possible outcome for them if thy stay is far worse economic conditions for decades.
Far worse than closed banks with no money to distribute?Where Tsipras is right is that the debt burden is unsustainable, everyone knows that, but a policy of reform followed by debt renegotiation is the only viable way forward imo. If Greece reverts to the Drachma without reform then all of the existing problems will still be there, plus a whole host of new ones.
GuitarTech said:
This morning the press here in Germany are running the stories that Tsipras has said that Greece will not be paying the next installment of around €1.6 M.
But, much, much better: The clown known as Varoufakis is threatening to sue the EU if they throw Greece out of the EU.
You couldn't make it up: what has he been smoking?
It would appear like the last desperate attempt to keep the balls in the air, could he have a point though ? as others have said Greece should never have joined in the first place, they did not meet the financial requirements for joining, but were still allowed in, I am sure that the Greeks will lay the blame at the feet of the EU, would they have been in this mess if they had not been allowed in ? who knows, but from a Greek perspective I can see the advantage of having somebody to blame. But, much, much better: The clown known as Varoufakis is threatening to sue the EU if they throw Greece out of the EU.
You couldn't make it up: what has he been smoking?
Blib said:
The fact is that Greece will continue to exist outside of the Euro. They WILL survive. Life will go on. GREXIT is the only sensible solition for the country, long term. Oher countries will trade with them. The choice is a decade of harsh economic conditions or decades crushed under an economic jackboot with no hope of escape.
Other countries will trade with them providing they get paid in a proper, internationally accepted currency, not something with Tsipras' face and a number followed by a gazillion zeros printed on the front. And one way or another, they're going to have to reform their economy whether they like it or not, regardless of the currency they use.matsoc said:
Once you are in it going out from the Euro is madness, I think YES will win by a huge margin, something like 80% or more.
The problem is thay'll basicly be voting yes to keep the Euro, but no to servicing the debt, not to mention reforming the greek system so they could pay some of it back if they wanted to.I don't believe Greece will ever reform, and is completely incapable of doing so. Their recent history is one of finding some poor sap with a poor knowledge of history, to give or lend a whole load of money to fund their profligate lazy lifestyle and then refuse to pay it back. Rinse and repeat except this time the misguided lenders included the EU which take idiocy to whole new level therefor Greece even further in debt this time. Cut em adrift they can sink or swim but not at my expense.
GuitarTech said:
This morning the press here in Germany are running the stories that Tsipras has said that Greece will not be paying the next installment of around €1.6 M.
But, much, much better: The clown known as Varoufakis is threatening to sue the EU if they throw Greece out of the EU.
You couldn't make it up: what has he been smoking?
Don't you mean Bn rather than M. We're talking huge sums of money they owe every month which they don't have. I'd be dusting off the old printing presses make a Greek pint 50p again and watch the tourists flock in! But, much, much better: The clown known as Varoufakis is threatening to sue the EU if they throw Greece out of the EU.
You couldn't make it up: what has he been smoking?
GuitarTech said:
But, much, much better: The clown known as Varoufakis is threatening to sue the EU if they throw Greece out of the EU.
You couldn't make it up: what has he been smoking?
Okay then, show us where in any of the EU Treaties there is a mechanism for terminating EU membership? You couldn't make it up: what has he been smoking?
What Varoufakis is saying (and I am no particular fan of Syriza) is that the EU must act within the law and the Greeks will apply for an injunction against being thrown out of the EU.
In any event, I wouldn't pay too much attention to the utter horsecrap written in the German press. It's a complete disgrace, no more than a mouthpiece for the likes of Schaubel. History will be very harsh on Germany for their role in perpetuating this crisis.
The EU have been totally unwilling to restructure the long term debt for Greece, and yet any realistic solution must contain a write down.
It could all have been so different.
A year ago, The Euro could have put out a bland little statement somewhere quiet on a Tuesday night, with a technical sentence like.
As a result of success in containing and managing the financial shocks of 2008, the bailout terms for Greece have been amended to write down 70bn Euros in bonds, and adjust term dates out to 2050 on a further 70bn.
As they are printing close a trillion euros anyway, you wonder what actually is the value in punishing Greece of the Troika terms which let's face it was a necessary firewall to prevent a French banking run.
Sure some of the members might not have liked it, but I think they will find it considerable less funny, if Greece does default and exit, as effectively the EU loses one tail end charlie, but will quickly gain another one, likely to be Portugal.
It could all have been so different.
A year ago, The Euro could have put out a bland little statement somewhere quiet on a Tuesday night, with a technical sentence like.
As a result of success in containing and managing the financial shocks of 2008, the bailout terms for Greece have been amended to write down 70bn Euros in bonds, and adjust term dates out to 2050 on a further 70bn.
As they are printing close a trillion euros anyway, you wonder what actually is the value in punishing Greece of the Troika terms which let's face it was a necessary firewall to prevent a French banking run.
Sure some of the members might not have liked it, but I think they will find it considerable less funny, if Greece does default and exit, as effectively the EU loses one tail end charlie, but will quickly gain another one, likely to be Portugal.
911Gary said:
"God I hate the communist Ponzi european edifice and all that goes with it...."
+1
That can't be right, you don't exist! Nobody has been looking on with a mix of shock and derision over the years as the EU in general and the EZ fiasco in particular stumble from farce to crisis. We're all jelly babies waiting to be moulded by a slick EU-funded totally honest In campaign. Scared at one time, and spun a line by CMD at another time, we'll end up as good little eurofodder sheeple and vote to stay In. The asylum will still have lunatics in charge and care little for us, but we must stay in as anything other than being locked in ever closer union with such people is apparently too scary.+1
Obvious, really
BoRED S2upid said:
GuitarTech said:
This morning the press here in Germany are running the stories that Tsipras has said that Greece will not be paying the next installment of around €1.6 M.
But, much, much better: The clown known as Varoufakis is threatening to sue the EU if they throw Greece out of the EU.
You couldn't make it up: what has he been smoking?
Don't you mean Bn rather than M. We're talking huge sums of money they owe every month which they don't have. I'd be dusting off the old printing presses make a Greek pint 50p again and watch the tourists flock in! But, much, much better: The clown known as Varoufakis is threatening to sue the EU if they throw Greece out of the EU.
You couldn't make it up: what has he been smoking?
edited once for sticky fingers
RYH64E said:
Greece needs to be able to import and no overseas suppliers will accept payment in Drachma, if the funds in my various bank accounts were unilaterally converted to Monopoly Money my business would fail within months. If Greece votes to leave the EZ the next few months will see what's left of their economy destroyed and the middle classes decimated, those with something left to lose will surely vote to avert catastrophe. As is always the case, those with nothing to lose can afford to be brave, but I expect that to be a minority.
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