Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]
Discussion
RYH64E said:
As I understand it, and I haven't looked at it very closely (yet), the business (large or small) isn't affected, it's the recipient of the dividends who is paying more tax.
If you won the business then the differentiation is moot. IMHO, the tax increase for most will be unwelcome but not really significant.Mermaid said:
Already popped to some extent. A friend of mine rents in Central Perth and it's been getting cheaper for a year and a bit now. And they are still building new stuff! It's almost as if every half-generation forgets the previous boom/bust. I would still live there though - it's very international nowadsys.Edited by fido on Thursday 30th July 12:14
Digga said:
DJRC said:
It's galling. I think many ppl do not realise what a business and personal profit orientated place the UK iswas.
A lot changed for many in the latest budget. You'll find 'contractors' who were evading the IR35 and masquerading as businesses will be less happy.I also think the reduction in capital investment write-downs against corp tax is a retrograde step for the economy in the longer term.
The UK is a much better place than Europe business wise atm.
DJRC said:
No Digga, I was referring to now, to the post IR35 rule. Yes I have my own ltd in the UK for contract work and delved into it. This was rather my point - continually looking/ knowing only the UK and whinging due to ignorance. The UK is VASTLY more business and personal profit orientated than the majority of Europe. Even with IR35, most contractors in the UK will be paying an effective tax rate of only about 21%. In Germany it's more like 28% and that's the next generous. You can't really count Switzerland and Lux because they are outliers. The UK is also *easy*, it's grief elsewhere - don't forget I've done all this crap in different countries around Europe.
The UK is a much better place than Europe business wise atm.
After living and working in another EU country for three years, I have to concur - the UK is like a tax haven in comparison to some other EU countriesThe UK is a much better place than Europe business wise atm.
Edited by chris watton on Thursday 30th July 12:42
Dig...you do realise that that statement doesn't actually either make any sense or mean anything in reality right?
What exactly do you think you mean? Firstly - are you in charge of an SME or in charge of any capital investment at an SME? Secondly - what sort of investment do you think you mean? Thirdly - why do you think which specific changes, will affect what exactly and how?
Without trying to sound like an accountant who is speaking in terms that make it sounds like they have never done any of the work they are talking about.
What exactly do you think you mean? Firstly - are you in charge of an SME or in charge of any capital investment at an SME? Secondly - what sort of investment do you think you mean? Thirdly - why do you think which specific changes, will affect what exactly and how?
Without trying to sound like an accountant who is speaking in terms that make it sounds like they have never done any of the work they are talking about.
DJRC said:
Dig...you do realise that that statement doesn't actually either make any sense or mean anything in reality right?
What exactly do you think you mean? Firstly - are you in charge of an SME or in charge of any capital investment at an SME? Secondly - what sort of investment do you think you mean? Thirdly - why do you think which specific changes, will affect what exactly and how?
Without trying to sound like an accountant who is speaking in terms that make it sounds like they have never done any of the work they are talking about.
What exactly do you think you mean? Firstly - are you in charge of an SME or in charge of any capital investment at an SME? Secondly - what sort of investment do you think you mean? Thirdly - why do you think which specific changes, will affect what exactly and how?
Without trying to sound like an accountant who is speaking in terms that make it sounds like they have never done any of the work they are talking about.
Sorry, this change: http://www.coutts.com/rates-and-prices/tax-rates/c...
I just think the reduction in the "annual investment allowance", from £500k to £200k discourages business investment.
Digga said:
Sorry, this change: http://www.coutts.com/rates-and-prices/tax-rates/c...
I just think the reduction in the "annual investment allowance", from £500k to £200k discourages business investment.
Edited by RYH64E on Thursday 30th July 14:47
RYH64E said:
The investment allowance has been up and down over the years, as recently as 2012 it was just £25k and £500k is the highest it's ever been (in my memory at least). A lower limit doesn't mean that you can't spend more, or that you don't get tax relief on higher amounts, it's a limit to the amount you can depreciate 100% in year one. If you spend more you just depreciate over a longer period (or put it through as repairs and renewals, if you can justify it and don't care about having the asset on your balance sheet). I've been putting as much through as capital spending as I can get away with in recent years but I've never got close to the £500k/annum mark.
You are looking at it purely form your own POV. Different firms have different capital requirements and investment opportunities.IMHO one of the really good things about Italian SMEs is their investment in engineering capital. You don't see anything like it here an they do get economic advantage from it in certain sectors.
The good thing about the 100% write-down is that it helps the cashflow of firms taking a leap. It helps to divert money that business owners might variously fritter away on revenue spending or personally as drawings into projects that have a longer term benefit not only to the businesses but also the economy.
Back to Greece, Tsipras seems to be getting his part of it through the Greek parliament and so far avoid his party collapsing. IMF say they aren't taking part until they see the next euro bail out in place with agreed debt relief, which knocks the ball back into German hands. Germans have already said that a deal wouldn't get through the German Bundestag without it having the IMF involved so what will they do now... have to give in to debt relief by pushing it out to the future even further rather than actually reducing the amount?
FT said:
According to a four-page “strictly confidential” summary of Wednesday’s board meeting obtained by the Financial Times, IMF negotiators will “participate in policy discussions” to ensure the eurozone’s new bailout “is consistent with what the Fund has in mind”.
But they “cannot reach staff level agreement at this stage.” The Fund will only decide whether to participate during a “stage two” after Greece has “agreed on a comprehensive set of reforms” and, crucially, after eurozone bailout lenders have “agreed on debt relief”.
But they “cannot reach staff level agreement at this stage.” The Fund will only decide whether to participate during a “stage two” after Greece has “agreed on a comprehensive set of reforms” and, crucially, after eurozone bailout lenders have “agreed on debt relief”.
Let's not forget the others in the PIIGS boat. In other news, there's been another bail-in, this time in Italy.
Except that The Powers That Be decided that a "bail-in" is still a bit unpalatable, so they found a different piggy bank to raid: http://www.bruegel.org/nc/blog/detail/article/1691...
Except that The Powers That Be decided that a "bail-in" is still a bit unpalatable, so they found a different piggy bank to raid: http://www.bruegel.org/nc/blog/detail/article/1691...
Axionknight said:
Reality hitting Greece as reality inevitably will. This will only end when Greece leaves the Euro and EU which inevitably Greece will because Greece cannot possibly afford to remain within the EU. Then the real trouble will start!Perhaps the most disgusting part of this has become the eager grabbing of every penny of the costs of sustaining this complete nonsence by the EU politicians without either admittance or recognition of the massive losses that have been accruing steadily for the past five years all of which will be met by the EU taxpayers. With the sole ouropse of putting off the inevitable fall of Greece without the slightest concern for their transparent personal, dishonesty. The EU politicians have become both financially self serving and inept and visibly dishonest in their continued refusal to ensure proper auditing and budgeting within the EU.
The IMF will not lend any further monies to Greece (Wise Move!) unless the EU agrees to write of the majority of the "Debts"
already incurred by Greece in failing to recover over the last five years. If the EU actually agree to this the other failing states within the EU will be banging on the door seeking to be treated like Greece! This is manifest economic nonsence and Greece is going to collapse financially because Greece is not recovering economically in any way!
Matter of time: fantasy land currently in Greece with more and more and more EU Taxpyers money literally buying the continuance of this travesty of economics by the day, day after day after day. Greece has not shown the slightest sign of recovery and will not recover because the Greek economy simply never had the strength to survive within the Euro and the EU. The EU are deliberately prolonging this because it suits the EU leaders. Not for long!
I think the level of f
ked has now been breached and all commentary on the actual real Greek economy should now include the phrased "like Detroit only far far worse" Manufacturing in July at a 16 year low, Tax receipts almost none existent, Stock market worst sine 1987 Wall Street Crash 23% down in a day, unemployment up, banks need £25bn of recapitalisation. Basically the Euro has made a wasteland of all of Greece. The only survivors are cash based family firms and multinationals for whom Greece is a rounding error on the accounts.
July's numbers are so mind bendingly awful, that the Eurozone are already E5bn behing on the economic projections since the "deal to save Greece" was done.
All banking and economic analysts are lining up to say "Grexit" and no-one really expects the renegotiation part three bailout to be approved or effective.
A total and utter clusterfluck of massive proportions.
Enter the French with another Ostrich moment, you can't leave to fix your economy..... barking, expensive and incredible madness.
I am lost for words...someone, somewhere needs to tell Obama to stick to bland repetitions of "yes we can", whilst Europe deals with its tailenders.
As Digga and Gargamel have confirmed, correctly in my view, this Greek supposed recovery is simply tosh from the EU who are throwing Billions of Euros away with no hope whatsoever that Greece can recover. This third bail out by the EU is going the way of the previous two bailouts the EU. Nowhere fast!
All the economic reports and details from Greece indicate the Greek economy is nosediving steadily and has been nosediving for all of the last expensive five years of EU bailouts. The Emperors clothes story, is perfectly demonstrated by the total arrogance of the EU in this nonsense, trying to pretend the Greek economy can be restored. It can never be!
Given the visibility of the hopless indebtedness of Greece I suspect the cracks will start to show, pretty smartish. I do not expect this complete nonsense to last long at all. It is by any reasonable aseesement outright madness and therefore it will be seen for what it really represents. Twaddle from the EU. Regrettably when the crunch does come the consequences to the seriously damaged reputation and trust in the EU as an entity may well cause waves of concern which the EU cannot calm. I can see the failure of the economic minnow Greece, having deeply serious cosequences to the credibility of the EU as a stable currency. Just a matter of time.
All the economic reports and details from Greece indicate the Greek economy is nosediving steadily and has been nosediving for all of the last expensive five years of EU bailouts. The Emperors clothes story, is perfectly demonstrated by the total arrogance of the EU in this nonsense, trying to pretend the Greek economy can be restored. It can never be!
Given the visibility of the hopless indebtedness of Greece I suspect the cracks will start to show, pretty smartish. I do not expect this complete nonsense to last long at all. It is by any reasonable aseesement outright madness and therefore it will be seen for what it really represents. Twaddle from the EU. Regrettably when the crunch does come the consequences to the seriously damaged reputation and trust in the EU as an entity may well cause waves of concern which the EU cannot calm. I can see the failure of the economic minnow Greece, having deeply serious cosequences to the credibility of the EU as a stable currency. Just a matter of time.
Steffan said:
I can see the failure of the economic minnow Greece, having deeply serious consequences to the credibility of the EU as a stable currency.
It is the credibility issue that must surely be the biggest problem now. This is the third bailout in prospect, Debt has been extended, all kinds of pots have been raiding to continue the charade, a e35bn infrastructure fund has been created, that will essentially by used for pay offs and all manner of fraud. But - The EU used to think they had a contagion problem with Greece, then they fixed it by loaning out taxpayers money to repay international bank debt. Now they have another kind of contagion problem emanating from Greece, a political one - if the EU fail to manage Greece (and they have) then not only will other states vote in anti EU parties, but the curtain will begin to be lifted further on how in effective they really are.
Small pebbles, but maybe one day boulders.
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