911 3.2 carrera - can you lose the whale tail?
Discussion
still thinking about an earlier 911 but am rather put off the late '80s versions by the huge whale tail spoiler which I jsut dont like. So my questions are
1) were any 84-89 3.2 carreras or targas made without the huge rubber spoiler?
2) if no, and presuming its there for a reason (like keeping the rear of the car behind the front end when cornering) then can one replace the whale tail with the later active spoiler as seen on the 964?
3) if 2) is feasible, how much would it cost?
1) were any 84-89 3.2 carreras or targas made without the huge rubber spoiler?
2) if no, and presuming its there for a reason (like keeping the rear of the car behind the front end when cornering) then can one replace the whale tail with the later active spoiler as seen on the 964?
3) if 2) is feasible, how much would it cost?
84-89 cars with spoilers were known as carrera sport, front/rear spoilers sports suspension,wider wheels and slightly sportier seats.
the carrera coupe was available at the same time, without spoliers or other parts of the sports kit. from mid '88 the carrera coupe (without spoilers) came with sports suspension and wider wheels as standrd. I had a late '89 in this spec as my first taste of pork.
In the uk mkt there were far more sports purchased over this period,but the coupes are out there.
you can take the spoilers off (front/rear together) and get the holes in the engine lid sorted.
You could pick up a 964 lid for about £500 secondhand, then you have probably got to paint it,,,fit the electrics etc.. more hassle than it is worth....I assume they would fit? I wouldn't bother with this myself, also it is unoriginal and may devalue the car.
the carrera coupe was available at the same time, without spoliers or other parts of the sports kit. from mid '88 the carrera coupe (without spoilers) came with sports suspension and wider wheels as standrd. I had a late '89 in this spec as my first taste of pork.
In the uk mkt there were far more sports purchased over this period,but the coupes are out there.
you can take the spoilers off (front/rear together) and get the holes in the engine lid sorted.
You could pick up a 964 lid for about £500 secondhand, then you have probably got to paint it,,,fit the electrics etc.. more hassle than it is worth....I assume they would fit? I wouldn't bother with this myself, also it is unoriginal and may devalue the car.
As suggested both options are possible. I removed my whale tail (simply purchased a plain engine lid from a guy on the Titanic 3.2 forum, rather than messing about getting holes welded and also so I could return to factory spec easily).
964 spoiler fitment is possible but you need to sort the electrics (too complicated to put the speed sensor in so most people just fit an up/down switch somewhere on the dash). 964 spoiler won't work if the car has aircon as the condensor gets in the way (so I discovered !)
The theory is that if you remove the rear spoiler you should also remove the front chin spoiler. I left mine in place and have not had any adverse problems. It would be rather more dangerous to take off the front spoiler and leave the rear. It probably does make the car a little lighter at the rear but only at very high speed - I've never had trouble on trakdays and have maintained a comfortable 140mph without flying off the road. Anyway YMMV !
Jamie
964 spoiler fitment is possible but you need to sort the electrics (too complicated to put the speed sensor in so most people just fit an up/down switch somewhere on the dash). 964 spoiler won't work if the car has aircon as the condensor gets in the way (so I discovered !)
The theory is that if you remove the rear spoiler you should also remove the front chin spoiler. I left mine in place and have not had any adverse problems. It would be rather more dangerous to take off the front spoiler and leave the rear. It probably does make the car a little lighter at the rear but only at very high speed - I've never had trouble on trakdays and have maintained a comfortable 140mph without flying off the road. Anyway YMMV !
Jamie
In the early '90s when they had tired of fitting slant noses to their 1977 SCs, the Max power brigade of that time started to retro fit 964 spoilers to these cars.
This required major surgery to accommodate the spoiler motor and the hinge locations were also different and different mounting points had to be welded in - so it's not a straightforward job.
If you remove the rear spoiler, also remove the front lip - Porsche put both on for good reason.
This required major surgery to accommodate the spoiler motor and the hinge locations were also different and different mounting points had to be welded in - so it's not a straightforward job.
If you remove the rear spoiler, also remove the front lip - Porsche put both on for good reason.
there's a guy on Rennlist who's got an early car, a black one (think about 1972 or so), and he's retrofitted the 964 electric lid to his car.
Don't know if it's an up/down or if it works on speed, but who cares? The 964 lid has that nice lip at the tail end of the lifting bit as well, that looks great up or down and (IMHO) doesn't look "max power" even on such an early car.
AHA found it - if you want to ask the guy what he did, this is his website:
http://members.rennlist.com/jackolsen/Jalopy.html
He's now put an RSR lid on there....
DO IT!
:-)
VS
Don't know if it's an up/down or if it works on speed, but who cares? The 964 lid has that nice lip at the tail end of the lifting bit as well, that looks great up or down and (IMHO) doesn't look "max power" even on such an early car.
AHA found it - if you want to ask the guy what he did, this is his website:
http://members.rennlist.com/jackolsen/Jalopy.html
He's now put an RSR lid on there....
DO IT!
:-)
VS
[quote=verysideways]there's a guy on Rennlist who's got an early car, a black one (think about 1972 or so), and he's retrofitted the 964 electric lid to his car.
What sacrilege - I bet he's bought some of those oh so lovely brushed aluminium bezels for the instruments and a nice aluminium handbrake lever too
What sacrilege - I bet he's bought some of those oh so lovely brushed aluminium bezels for the instruments and a nice aluminium handbrake lever too
I went through a similar debate. I really wanted an ex-californian early 70s 911 (s ideally). Something in 70s colour - such as burnt orange looks fantastic and if you get a good one drive brilliantly.
But eventually decided that wouldn't be suitably reliable. So then looked at 3.2s. For some reason I just couldn't find a good / reasonably priced one that didn't have a whale-tail. They are also mostly in white, black or red... Looking like a City boy is one thing, but one who is 15 years late is another...
Ended up with an 83 Swiss imported LHD SC coupe. This was old enough to have laughably low insurance as its 20+ys, and in theory is built nearly as well / nearly as fast as an 3.2.
It seemed in great condition and was faultless for a year, but 3 broken engine studs and low compression led to a recent top and buttom engine re-build.
So the moral is, whaletails can be removed much cheaper than an engine rebuild. So don't skimp on the independent test even if buying from a reputable dealer with a warrant. And accept that a engine re-build is likely to be needed somewhere around 150k so and get one where the previous poor sucker has already had it done....
But eventually decided that wouldn't be suitably reliable. So then looked at 3.2s. For some reason I just couldn't find a good / reasonably priced one that didn't have a whale-tail. They are also mostly in white, black or red... Looking like a City boy is one thing, but one who is 15 years late is another...
Ended up with an 83 Swiss imported LHD SC coupe. This was old enough to have laughably low insurance as its 20+ys, and in theory is built nearly as well / nearly as fast as an 3.2.
It seemed in great condition and was faultless for a year, but 3 broken engine studs and low compression led to a recent top and buttom engine re-build.
So the moral is, whaletails can be removed much cheaper than an engine rebuild. So don't skimp on the independent test even if buying from a reputable dealer with a warrant. And accept that a engine re-build is likely to be needed somewhere around 150k so and get one where the previous poor sucker has already had it done....
I don't think the spoiler assists with any sort of cooling at all - the vent is there to let hot air out (and to site the aircon radiator). Non sport 911s don't suffer any problems with cooling, so simply removing both front and rear spoilers should have no detrimental effect on that.
At a cost it is easy too convert a non sport to sport - requires green Bilsteins to replace Boge, 16 inch Fuchs to replace ATS wheels, genuine front and rear spoilers (only the late SC had the turbo spoiler as standard). Other options were (from memory) sports seats, but you could have a sport without these. I may have forgotten something - Iguana will know
At a cost it is easy too convert a non sport to sport - requires green Bilsteins to replace Boge, 16 inch Fuchs to replace ATS wheels, genuine front and rear spoilers (only the late SC had the turbo spoiler as standard). Other options were (from memory) sports seats, but you could have a sport without these. I may have forgotten something - Iguana will know
rubystone said:
I don't think the spoiler assists with any sort of cooling at all - the vent is there to let hot air out (and to site the aircon radiator). Non sport 911s don't suffer any problems with cooling, so simply removing both front and rear spoilers should have no detrimental effect on that.
At a cost it is easy too convert a non sport to sport - requires green Bilsteins to replace Boge, 16 inch Fuchs to replace ATS wheels, genuine front and rear spoilers (only the late SC had the turbo spoiler as standard). Other options were (from memory) sports seats, but you could have a sport without these. I may have forgotten something - Iguana will know
rubystone said:
I don't think the spoiler assists with any sort of cooling at all - the vent is there to let hot air out (and to site the aircon radiator). Non sport 911s don't suffer any problems with cooling, so simply removing both front and rear spoilers should have no detrimental effect on that.
At a cost it is easy too convert a non sport to sport - requires green Bilsteins to replace Boge, 16 inch Fuchs to replace ATS wheels, genuine front and rear spoilers (only the late SC had the turbo spoiler as standard). Other options were (from memory) sports seats, but you could have a sport without these. I may have forgotten something - Iguana will know
You may be right about the cooling- it was not my car...the article was in fact in 'Classic Cars', I remember now, and the owner stated that the lack of cooling was the only downside of de-spoilering.
clubsport said:
RS, sport/non sport differences covered earlier on in the thread mate
Sorry Paul - didn't read that far up - but I see you covered it off well enough - ever scrambled around in the mud to check the colour of the rear dampers? I have (and they were black - the car was a non-sport tricked up with spoilers)
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