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Discussion
Matt_N said:
How do people feel about Sagan taking the green jersey despite no stage wins?
I know thems the rules but it feels a bit hollow to me.
Not the first time it has happened and his consistency in the first week was amazing. I'm disappointed he didn't win a stage but it doesn't detract from the jersey and his retention of it IMO.I know thems the rules but it feels a bit hollow to me.
IMO, it doesn't matter a bit. It's a points jersey, not a sprinters jersey, so rewards consistency and high finishes throughout day-in, day-out, not just the sprint stages. Plenty of guys win it without being prolific stage winners or the fastest sprinters; Kelly and Hushovd spring to mind.
Although the best sprinter gets their own reward, through stage wins, I wouldn't mind if the organisers added in a 'sprints jersey' or 'sprints number' like the combativity red number and yellow team numbers - other Tours have a separate sprints jersey.
Although the best sprinter gets their own reward, through stage wins, I wouldn't mind if the organisers added in a 'sprints jersey' or 'sprints number' like the combativity red number and yellow team numbers - other Tours have a separate sprints jersey.
Some Gump said:
climbers?
What is this mythical creature that you speak of? Name me one genuine GC rider of the current crop that would fear (of losing time) a MTT in the middle of a grand tour, and how would it skew the overall classification. I'm sure the Tour organisers would counterbalance this by sticking in a fairly long, flat time trial, as they did in 1987. Team time trials have wreaked far more havoc to title chances in the past.okgo said:
To me its similar to the KOM jersey going to a bloke who finished way down on GC. Doesn't matter I guess, but does feel a little odd.
But most of Majka's time losses were on the first few stages when he was working for Bertie. No problem with Sagan winning green with no wins. Thems the rules. Hushovd did it too.
I'm going off Sagan. Whilst I fully appreciate its a points jersey, not a true sprinters jersey, the setup is such that essentially no-one bothers with it.
Leaving one guy/team, who have no other string to their bow, playing pissy little intermediate sprint games in the peloton whilst there's a breakaway, then wheelsucking the guy who really is bloody quick at the finish to get a few more points.
Yes, them's the rules and all that, but it should have a heavier emphasis on stage finishes on stages where a bunch sprint is likely, instead of random spots dotted through stages.
Perhaps my opprobrium is due to the loss of the spoof Sagan twitter account from a couple of years back!
Leaving one guy/team, who have no other string to their bow, playing pissy little intermediate sprint games in the peloton whilst there's a breakaway, then wheelsucking the guy who really is bloody quick at the finish to get a few more points.
Yes, them's the rules and all that, but it should have a heavier emphasis on stage finishes on stages where a bunch sprint is likely, instead of random spots dotted through stages.
Perhaps my opprobrium is due to the loss of the spoof Sagan twitter account from a couple of years back!
I'm not so sure - IMo the points jersey is the "all rounder" competition - to me, sagan's non stop top 10 for a week is way more impressive than kittel's (already impressive) sprint tally.
I really don't see it as wheelsucking, most of the peloton can't keep up with kittel or kristoff either - to hold their wheel and come second is oretty impressive - 9 or 10 others tried to do the same and failed, after all.
Also, he does wheelies.
I really don't see it as wheelsucking, most of the peloton can't keep up with kittel or kristoff either - to hold their wheel and come second is oretty impressive - 9 or 10 others tried to do the same and failed, after all.
Also, he does wheelies.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Struggling to see what it'd achieve? He's not got the legs for a 1-2 man breakaway, larger breaks still wouldn't work with him even if he had a teammate or two with him. Can't come close to the 'proper' sprinters, most top lead out boys are quicker, so that's a waste. Can't TT or HC climb.
He's entertaining, and he'll undoubtedly get another green jersey or two, but more than that? Can't see it. Needs to develop a bit more sustained power for stage wins, like Cancellara, Voight or Martin.
He only gets second places cause he stays in the slipstream, if he popped out from behind the huge shield that is Kittel he'd fall away faster than the guys going for the win.
But what about stages like the Sheffield finish? Or stage 2 of last years tour? He can still be in contention at the finish when the likes of Kittel are losing ten minutes.
Surely he deserves credit for this? It places as big a part in it as the 5th/6th/7ths he picks up in intermediate sprints, if not more.
Surely he deserves credit for this? It places as big a part in it as the 5th/6th/7ths he picks up in intermediate sprints, if not more.
Sway said:
Struggling to see what it'd achieve?
He's not got the legs for a 1-2 man breakaway, larger breaks still wouldn't work with him even if he had a teammate or two with him. Can't come close to the 'proper' sprinters, most top lead out boys are quicker, so that's a waste. Can't TT or HC climb.
He's entertaining, and he'll undoubtedly get another green jersey or two, but more than that? Can't see it. Needs to develop a bit more sustained power for stage wins, like Cancellara, Voight or Martin.
He only gets second places cause he stays in the slipstream, if he popped out from behind the huge shield that is Kittel he'd fall away faster than the guys going for the win.
Let's not get carried away here.He's not got the legs for a 1-2 man breakaway, larger breaks still wouldn't work with him even if he had a teammate or two with him. Can't come close to the 'proper' sprinters, most top lead out boys are quicker, so that's a waste. Can't TT or HC climb.
He's entertaining, and he'll undoubtedly get another green jersey or two, but more than that? Can't see it. Needs to develop a bit more sustained power for stage wins, like Cancellara, Voight or Martin.
He only gets second places cause he stays in the slipstream, if he popped out from behind the huge shield that is Kittel he'd fall away faster than the guys going for the win.
Sagan has won 4 Tour stages, all on road stages.
Cancellara 8, but only 2 weren't ITTs or prologues.
Martin has won 4, but 3 of those were ITTs.
Voigt? The guy only won two stages in something like 16 TDFs. Lots of failed breakaways.
For me, he's a classics man, Grand Tours aren't his thing. Stuff like Gent-Wevelgem, E3, Tour of Flanders - short, sharp hills you can power over and then win the sprint from a small group. Watch him in I think the E3 a couple of years ago - went with 10k or so to go and rode everyone off his wheel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtpQ_7Bj_YM
My favourite Sagan clip - sticking in up a climb and then eating one of the best descenders, Damiano Cunego, alive on the run in.
My favourite Sagan clip - sticking in up a climb and then eating one of the best descenders, Damiano Cunego, alive on the run in.
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