Hallsy's Heroes - 944 & S2K

Hallsy's Heroes - 944 & S2K

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AMH82

Original Poster:

350 posts

180 months

Monday 16th September 2013
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Thought I'd put a post up about our most recent additions.

A couple of months back Mrs Hallsy decided she fancied a new car, and it was to be a roadster. I already had a Roadster, my Eunos, but I had that for a few years so decided I would let her go to make way for something else.

After consdidering the usual suspects (NC MX5, Boxster, Z4 & S2000) we settled on an S2000. Finding the right one wasn't easy, especially as my other half was fond of the Nurburgring blue, but not the blue interior!! After viewing a few that failed to live up to their adverts (with one highly regarded Merc dealer being the worst), we stumbled upon one just up the road (comparatively) - in the right colour, facelift, good history - but, it had the blue interior. By this time my other half had decided to look past this (I offered to swap it out for her to black), but once viewed and bought, it was no longer a problem. It definitely grows on you, and now I'd pretty much say I prefer it to the more run of the mill black interior. It's certainly not as bright as it often looks in the pics.

Since buying her we've been very busy and have just got back from a holiday, so I've not had much chance to snap any pics other than this one:


2004 Honda S2000 by Hallsy01, on Flickr

So far we've both been very happy with her. I think the facelift looks great and love how the dash is simple but driver focused. It's surprising how big the car is considering it's lack of space inside, parking in our garage takes some gymnastics to get in & out!!
This is my first VTEC and after a number of turbo and larger capacity cars I was worried about the lack of torque. IMO this is hugely exagerrated, for normal day to day driving, these engines pulls just as well as any other 2.0 petrol N/A engine from low down - but when you want to press on, yes, you need to be starting at around 5k. That's the only thing that catches me out coming from a turbo (my old Newage Impreza for example), where you could short shift 1st to 2nd, then still get a nice surge from low down - with the VTEC it just feels like a really long 2nd gear if you short shift from 1st!
I've not really pushed the handling yet (my other half uses it as her daily driver so I've only really driven it a handful of times), early impressions are that is doesn't give anywhere near the feedback that the Eunos did, which gives a little less confidence, but it does feel like it had plenty of grip. It does seem to move around more mid corner with throttle than other cars I've had, but this could be down to the average rear tyres (due to be replaced), after which I will get the geometry checked.
Don't have any immediate plans for the car other than fluid replacement (engine, gearbox & diff), a set of rear tyres and some new mats! The clutch release bearing is a bit noisy, so I will factor in for a clutch at some point, although the clutch feels fine in operation. Just need to get out and drive....enoying what's left of the summer!

Before we bought the S2k I had already sold my Impreza to help fund it. I loved the car, and pretty much regretted it as it drove up the road - but with them being plentiful I knew I could always go back. By the time the S2k was bought we had sold out 330ci and the Eunos as well, so for a little while I was on my push bike!! I had said we wouldn't go back to three cars, so I had to find a practical performance car that was a bit nicer inside than the Impreza. A B5 S4 Avant was on the cards, but in the back of my mind the 944 kept chirping away. I had fancied one for years and always said when the Eunos went, I would buy one. But two rwd sports cars, not the most practical - especially come winter time.

But after a month or so of looking around and seeing very few S4's I fancied (or them all being in Scotland!!) I started looking at 944's again! I didn't have enough left in the kitty for a good Turbo, so from that point on I decided I would be happy with any model, as long as it was a nice straight example.

So on Friday I bought this lovely 1988 944S in the fastest colour, Guards Red. Since I've had her home it has been miserable, so all I have managed is a quick wash and a compromised pic from my driveway:


1988 Porsche 944S by Hallsy01, on Flickr

And a quick snap of the Porsche script handles which please me smile


944S Porsche Script by Hallsy01, on Flickr

Back in the day I always said I'd buy an 'S' as I always liked an underdog. I had a good look around a PCGB members S that is in great condition, and he took me for a spin - maybe they do lack a little in the lower revs, but once wound up they still pull nicely.

Mine has a Promax chip fitted and feels like it maybe pulls better still, but difficult to tell. It certainly revs well once you pass 3.5k.

Future plans for this one include replacing the cam chain slipper pads and checking the chain for peace of mind, then I'll probably turn my attention to the suspension. The car rides and turns in nicely, but does feel a little soft at times, maybe a little vague - as if the dampers could do with replacing, maybe some of the bushes also. Will probably go with a subtle drop in ride height as well. I've been advised 968 caster mounts are worthwhile, especially with the 17's. I'm not 100% on the wheels, I'm considering going back to some D90's, but they can stay for a while yet.
Other than that, I have a small amount of water ingress to sort out, and some of the headlining could do with replacing - and I'm itching to give the slightly faded Guards Red a proper polish - just need to wait for the rain to clear!!

No doubt there will be lots of bits & bobs to attend to with the 944 as I get to know it better, but that's par for the course for an older car, but on the whole I consider this one to be a nice one!!

Thanks for reading smile

Ved

3,825 posts

174 months

Monday 16th September 2013
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The 944 looks superb, congrats. What are the details on it and what price range did you settle into?

Hallsy01

Original Poster:

350 posts

180 months

Monday 16th September 2013
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Thanks Ved!!

It's a 1988 944S 2.5 16v, 128k, 6 previous owners iirc. Full porsche/indy history up to around 100k, then lots of receipts for regular maintenance after then. Standard car other than a Promax chip and the Boxster wheels.

I bought it from a PCGB member who hadn't really advertised. He had it up for £2700 but offered it to me for £2300, which is what I paid. I felt it was a good price as generally it was in very good condition, history good and things like belts were up to date - the amount of 944's out there being sold with 10 year old belts is unbelievable!

I looked at a lower mileage 2.7 with full porsche history before this one and it felt nowhere near as tight (and this one can be improved upon I'm sure). I also had a good look around a very well maintained S from a PCGB member not far from me, so I had an idea of what to look for!

Inner sills look pretty good, one side has been repaired previously, and the other side shows some minor bubbling, but these will get nipped in the bud sooner rather than later.

The photo is kind to the paint, it is good, but up close you can see that it's faded a bit, so when I get chance I'll machine polish the car and do my best to protect it from the sun!!

Ved

3,825 posts

174 months

Monday 16th September 2013
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Hallsy01 said:
Thanks Ved!!

It's a 1988 944S 2.5 16v, 128k, 6 previous owners iirc. Full porsche/indy history up to around 100k, then lots of receipts for regular maintenance after then. Standard car other than a Promax chip and the Boxster wheels.
Hate you.
Hallsy01 said:
I bought it from a PCGB member who hadn't really advertised. He had it up for £2700 but offered it to me for £2300, which is what I paid.
Hate you more now.

Magnificent bit of purchasing. Keep it us all up to date and get to the next PH Sunday Service if you can. I've always wanted a Porsche with reasonably good costs and these have been top of the list for a while.

Paraicj

502 posts

140 months

Monday 16th September 2013
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I'd be happy to have either of those gracing my garage, lovely pair! The red on the Porche looks brand new.

Hallsy01

Original Poster:

350 posts

180 months

Tuesday 17th September 2013
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Thanks! The red looks better in the photos than in the flesh, hence me wanting to cut the paint, but it's not anywhere near bad enough to call it Guards Pink yet!!

Ved - it was really a matter of right place at the right time, I'd been looking around for a while, been to view a couple then stumbled across this one quite locally via PCGB. The seller just wanted to recoup some of his ownership costs (he'd spent £2k in 4 years, which is pretty good imo) and wanted it to go to an enthusiast - which I am!!

I'd like to get to a PH meet, I'll check it out!

TaylotS2K

1,964 posts

206 months

Tuesday 17th September 2013
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Did the previous owner of the S2K get the geometry done before? You might find the bushes seized (common problem with S2000's) in which case it could cost anywhere between about £400 to £1000 to get them free before you can have the geo done and set up how you like.

Hallsy01

Original Poster:

350 posts

180 months

Wednesday 25th September 2013
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Certainly the previous owner didn't have the geometry checked, and I have no records for it.

When I was looking you would find that not many peeople had had it checked, unless a petrolhead or enthusiast - and lets be honest, a fair proportion of S2K's were bought by people who wanted a nice looking soft top!

I'll get it checked and if it's out and the adjustments are siezed I'll try my luck at plus gassing for a week, but if not I'll bite the bullet and replace whatever needs doing. Need to find someone a reputable geo/suspension specialist in the South East really. CG always get a good rep, but they are some distance from me.

As for the 944, I had a little bit of water getting in, finding it's way to the rear passenger footwell. So I stripped the carpets & seats out and got my other half to run a hose over the car. Usual suspects are windscreen/scuttle, rear quarter glass, sunroof seals/drains, rear lights or rear hatch. Funnily enough mine seems to be coming in on passenger side of rear hatch seal. Seems like the seal has grown a little and also the vinyl headliner that tucks underneath is a little messy which allows the water to run in under the headlining. I've silicone greased it for now as I suspect it was getting wet from washing rather than rain (it was only really coming in with quite a bit of hose pressure/flow), but will fit a new hatch seal soon.

While I had the interior out I took the oppurtunity to give the carpets, etc a good clean. Also fitted a nice Becker DTM High Speed headunit, had a Becker in my Eunos and love the understated looks and quality sound/build. Looks great in the 944. Rather than putting the GPS antenna up on the dash, I have hidden it inside the dash, on top of the glovebox, so will be interesting to see how well it picks the GPS satelites up.

Other than that I am waiting on service bits from Berlyn Services, and I also have a pair of cam chain slipper pads on order so I can replace those for peace of mind.

After that I want to spend some time/money on the suspension - 968 caster blocks, maybe new bushes & balljoints if worn, and new dampers/springs. Hopefully this will help to sharpen the handling up a little.

Jurgen

228 posts

154 months

Wednesday 25th September 2013
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Both very nice cars! The geo settings will make a big difference on the S2000 as will decent tyres, but steering feel will always be a bit vague. The livelyness mid corner and the way it steers on the throttle is something I really had to get used to. The rear can also feel like it's sliding, when it's not (possibly due to change in toe/camber under compression of the suspension). But once you're used to it you'll be amazed how fast you can corner in these cars! You'll probably face backwards a few times whilst finding the limit, might be wise to take it on a trackday biggrin

Fat Albert

1,392 posts

180 months

Thursday 26th September 2013
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Lovely 944, and yes it is the fastest colour!

Both of my Porkers were in the same colour:



Just keep it washed 'n' waxed regularly as once Guards Red starts to fade it is a bu**er to keep shiny

Mark Benson

7,498 posts

268 months

Thursday 26th September 2013
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Jurgen said:
The rear can also feel like it's sliding, when it's not (possibly due to change in toe/camber under compression of the suspension). But once you're used to it you'll be amazed how fast you can corner in these cars!
The S2000 has passive rear wheel steering, slightly lifting the throttle mid turn causes a slight increase of toe-out & turns the nose in. The effect should only be slight though, if it's pronounced, check the geometry as the S2000 is quite sensitive to poor setup (both mine came with terrible geometry from the dealer, so few know how to do it properly).

If you wish to reduce the RWS effect, slightly increase the static toe-in. But beware as it'll offer less progressive breakaway on a car that's not famed for it's exploitable oversteer.

Jurgen

228 posts

154 months

Thursday 26th September 2013
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I know it's very geo sensitive smile I'm having it checked/adjusted once a year or so. I'm running pretty much exactly the Honda uk Silverstone settings and that helps a lot.

Hallsy01

Original Poster:

350 posts

180 months

Friday 27th September 2013
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Fat Albert said:
Lovely 944, and yes it is the fastest colour!

Both of my Porkers were in the same colour:



Just keep it washed 'n' waxed regularly as once Guards Red starts to fade it is a bu**er to keep shiny
Very nice FA smile I love the 968 and hope to own one one day, although I suppose you have to ask yourself whether it is worth spending the extra for what is pretty much a newer, slightly more powerful 944 S2. They look great though!

As for Guards Red, I plan to keep on top of it. I have washed and clayed the car yesterday, and will start machine polishing today. It needs it, although far from being 'pink' the paint does look a little dry/oxidised in places - just a hand polish will bring it up as the oils will add the gloss, but really it needs cutting back. I've got a free weekend so will hopefully get it all done!

Service parts from Berlyn have finally turned up so I can do that as well over the weekend, as well as gearbox & diff oil on the S2K!

Hallsy01

Original Poster:

350 posts

180 months

Friday 27th September 2013
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Mark Benson said:
The S2000 has passive rear wheel steering, slightly lifting the throttle mid turn causes a slight increase of toe-out & turns the nose in. The effect should only be slight though, if it's pronounced, check the geometry as the S2000 is quite sensitive to poor setup (both mine came with terrible geometry from the dealer, so few know how to do it properly).

If you wish to reduce the RWS effect, slightly increase the static toe-in. But beware as it'll offer less progressive breakaway on a car that's not famed for it's exploitable oversteer.
Ah - so that's why they're so steerable on the throttle. I must admit, initially I wondered if it was me as I used to notice it with normal driving just changing gear, so wondered if I was pulling on the steering wheel a bit - but I've tried it on/off throttle mid corner and it's definitely there.

It does make the car feel like it is twitchy when you're not used to it, even though you know the car has plenty of grip. Just without the feedback that my Eunos gave you, you can't fully sense what is going on.....until you're sideways! Which hasn't happened yet, I'm no drift king!!

I test drove one that was pulling left & right just going in a straight line, possibly geo or possibly the ste mis matched tyres - but I walked away from that one!

Hallsy01

Original Poster:

350 posts

180 months

Wednesday 16th October 2013
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So nothing too exciting lately - I've not even driven the S2k in a while, but I've put a few more miles on the 944 now. Starting to get a better feel for the car now, and still really happy with it. I do find the pedal layout a bit awkward as the foot rest is high as is the brake pedal, but the clutch & throttle pedals have quite a long throw. And with the throttle being quite heavy, in my preferred seating position it was a bit of an effort to get full throttle!! So I do have to sit forward a bit more than I'd like, but once you do find full throttle and get above 4000 rpm it does pull quite nicely. It will never be a traffic light grand prix car, but once it stretches it's legs a bit, it is more than adequate.

I did machine polish the car a couple of weeks ago, although it did look quite good straight after a wash, you could see that it was looking a bit faded. This photo shows it up a bit:


IMG_1740 by Hallsy01, on Flickr

Unfortunately the rest of the car didn't come up quite as well, with a few areas being quite stubborn, and my light cut pad wasn't quite up to it - so I've brought back the colour and gloss a but, but it does need some more attention when I find the time. Some of the car has been painted (expect that on a 25 year old red car) but only really the bonnet shows up as a 'could have been better' job. Although there are a number of deep scratches around the car that look like rubbing down marks, but not really sure what has caused them.

As above, I got the Becker fully installed and managed to get a Nav CD for it. Tested it out and it got me into central London without any dramas, which is better than my internal sat nav would manage!!

I think it looks just right as well:


IMG_1734 by Hallsy01, on Flickr


IMG_1737 by Hallsy01, on Flickr

Shame one of the rear speakers is nackered as it will mean glass out to get the inner trim panel off, but one of them could do with being replaced anyway.

Fitted some 968 caster mounts at the weekend, could be placebo, but steering feel feels better for it already, next up will be some new dampers, ARB stiffeners and bushes, and maybe a slight drop - nothing major, 30mm max. I seem to have a small amount of play in the steering shaft as well, so will be fitting a JMG recon/uprated one this month hopefully. This should help with the slight vagueness the steering can have at times.

After seeing a lovely 2.7 on original Teledials the other day, it got me thinking about the wheels again - whether to stick with what I have, or go for some D90's or even just some original Teledials. If late offset 16" tele's came up, I'd probably go for a set, but they're not too common!!

mikey P 500

1,236 posts

186 months

Wednesday 16th October 2013
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Nice 944 (just got one myself) re steering ; I just fitted a new steering universal joint (bar with both ends) euro car parts do it. Made a massive difference, well worth changing if yours has any play in it.
Mine has a nice set of teledial wheels I would consider swapping for yours if you wanted a set.

Hallsy01

Original Poster:

350 posts

180 months

Wednesday 16th October 2013
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Hi Mikey, yes, mine has a small amount of play in the top uj. I was going to get one from JMG as they uprate the bearings to deal with the heat from the exhaust, and aren't too expensive.

Did you fit yours yourself? Did you have to move the rack forward to get the shaft our?

As for the teledials, I'm still undecided!

mikey P 500

1,236 posts

186 months

Thursday 17th October 2013
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Fitted mine myself had to move rack forward but only 4 bolts. Everything came undone easily too. Euro car part was £70+vat. (Not sure it needs to be uprated given the first one was good for 150k and 24yrs.

Hallsy01

Original Poster:

350 posts

180 months

Friday 18th October 2013
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Cheers Mikey.

The only thing I have heard about in terms of upgrade is a better quality uj to deal with the heat of the exhaust better, although I expect any modern equivalent would be the same.

I was looking at the JMG one, which with exchange works out about the same as ECP.

http://www.jmgshop.com/rhd-944968924s-steering-sha...

Hallsy01

Original Poster:

350 posts

180 months

Monday 23rd December 2013
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Not much to update here really, the S2k has been plodding along as reliably as you'd expect, the weather has been failry mild but I've personally not had any trouble with it in the poorer conditions. Certainly you can provoke it at low speeds eixiting a junction or roundabout, but it's never felt out of shape once on the move - I do drive to conditions though!

My missus had her first experience of a 'touch of oppo' though!! Not really sure what happened, either black ice or something on the road, as she tells me it happened in a straight line - either way, she was fine, probably felt worse than it looked! She can be a bit 'binary' with her throttle control though!!

The 944 has kept me amused, as I had no record of the lower cam tensioner pad being replaced, I decided to replace both the lower & upper - even though the upper pad had been done fairly recently, the upper one is the cheap one, so I just replaced it again. Funnily enough, even after 10k miles or so, it was showing a fair amount of wear - but I suspect with these they wear a small groove quite quickly where the chain runs, but then deteriorate slowly over time, eventually failing due to getting brittle.

The thing is with this job, is to be very careful when removing J-tube oil feed pipe, it's too easy to drop the banjo washers. You guessed it, I removed it OK and wondered what the fuss was, but when replacing I thought the oil stiction had one washer held, to find it didn't!!

I spent some time trying to prove that it had found it's way to the sump (there is an oil gallery diretly below where it would fall), before deciding that I was pretty certain it was in the sump and come the better weather I would remove it whilst tidying a few other bits (PAS rack, engine mounts).

When I went to take the car for a run again, the clutch hydraulics failed!! After some delays with RM, I finally had all of the bits I needed, so resealed the slave cylinder and replaced the master, flexi hose and reservoir hose. It wasn't the easiest of clutches to bleed for some reason, but got there in the end.

By this time it was now due an MOT, and it sailed through!!

Glad to have her back on the road again. Still got plenty of bits I want to refresh, but will wait for the xmas period to pass first. Hopefully get chance to give her a well deserved wash tomorrow (not that she's too dirty), and maybe get out for an xmas photo shoot!