A Comparison: Clio 182, Civic Type-R, Mini Cooper S, 106 Gti
Discussion
Quite often on this forum and others I see these 4 cars, amongst others, being compared in 'What car' threads and similar for people looking to buy a fairly cheap warm/hot hatchback. I've read a lot of those posts and everyone seems to have different opinions usually favouring the car they own.
After picking up A Clio 182 this week I have now owned all four for varying amounts of time and thought I would be able to give a fair comparison of them, so here goes:
I'll start with the spec and models of the ones I've had, obviously I can only compare what I've actually driven and lived with.
Renaultsport Clio 182, 2004, 78k
Honda Civic Type-R EP3, 2003, 74k
Mini Cooper S, R53(S/charged, 163bhp), 72k.
Peugeot 106 Gti, 1997, 85k.
Handling:
I put this category first, because for me it is the most important thing for a hot hatch. Good handling leads to good fun and great handling to great fun, which essentially is what these cars are all about. All 4 of these cars are known for being relatively good handling Fwd cars, they all are pretty capable. I personally found the Ep3 to be the most difficult car to get used to in the bends due to the lightness and lack of feel in the steering, it gripped well but because you couldn't feel what it was doing at the wheels I never had the confidence to push it towards its limits. I'm sure a better driver would have a better opinion of it but for me it just didn't work.
The Mini had better steering feel and felt pretty well weighted when pushing on. It also just would never run out of grip, the handling of the Mini grew on me as time went on and I think on a twisty B road a lot more powerful cars would be hard pushed to stay with it.
One car that I think would be ahead of it is the Clio. Renaultsports are always good handling vehicles and this Clio really does show that. I have not owned it long enough to really push it but it is just so easy to control through corners. You get to a point where you are travelling around bends far quicker than you imagined would be comfortable, yet in the Clio it just seems so easy. The grip never runs out and when it does start to it is so manoeuvrable, easily one of the best handling Fwd cars around, and I don't have to drive them all to say that. It is so much fun in the corners but the 106 is better.
The 106 Gti comes on much skinnier tyres than the other 3, and unlike the Mini and the Clio it doesn't have any sort of ESP system to get you out of trouble if you cock up. But the best bit about it is the rawness of it. It still grips very well and if you keep your foot planted it sticks to the road pretty much as good as the others, but the reason I think it is the best handling is because of how easy it is to adjust once you are in a corner. Lift off oversteer is pretty much on demand, the whole car can change direction mid corner no bother at all and when you're around the bend you fly off down the next straight bit with a huge grin on your face already looking forward to the next one. All are very capable Fwd hatches but the 106 creates the most smiles.
1.) 106 Gti
2.) Clio 182
3.) Cooper S
4.) Type-R
Straight line performance:
None of these cars are meant to be the quickest on a drag strip or in a traffic light GP, but they all do have a good kick behind them when they do need to get a shift on. If they were to all line up on a runway, assuming all cars are standard as they came out of the factory, then the Civic would be the first to 60 and 100 and would reach the highest top speed, no question. So if you are looking for the car with the best figures in straight line performance then the EP3 is definitely the one to choose. This is not to say the other are slowcoaches. They will all hit 60 in just over 7 seconds, including the 106(Peugeot tested the 106 Gti with a passenger and full tank of fuel to make it seem slower and to achieve a lower insurance group. For the accurate performance figures for it look at the Saxo Vts as they are identical.)
The power delivery on the Civic, Clio and 106 are all very similar, not a lot of torque but when kept on cam they will all pull very well. The Mini has the benefit of the supercharger which does make it the most useful for in gear performance, it would also respond the best to modification. However assuming the cars are standard this is how they would stack up in my opinion:
1.) Type-r
2.) Clio 182
3.) Cooper S
4.) 106 Gti
Sound:
This might not be a big deal for a lot of people, but for me the sound a car makes is vital to whether I enjoy driving it. It has to be liveable day to day and excite you when pressing on. With these things in mind and once again assuming the cars are all factory standard, it is really only between the Mini and the Civic for this one. The 106 Gti sounds like a little rally car with a 2" Pugsport echaust popping and flaming at the back, and the Clio sounds brilliant with a Miltek exhaust, but as they don't come with those modifications they just don't stack up to the other two.
When in Vtec the Ep3 sounds brilliant, the only 4 cylinder engines that sound better in my opinion are older B series Honda engines. It is also very quiet on a cruise so it fits the bill in all ways. But the Mini is the best sounding for me, simply because of that Supercharger whine, I don't really need to say much more but it sounds amazing when driving hard and if you can live with it everyday then it's great.
1.) Cooper S
2.) Type-R
3.) Clio 182
4.) 106 Gti
Interior and Living with day to day:
First of all I will mention the seats. Now for this the Mini comes stone dead last. In fairness the Cooper S I had was fitted with the basic cloth seats, but they were terrible. They had no support and looked bad too. The driving position was okay and the pedal box was setup perfectly but all this gets let down by not being comfortable when driving the thing! The inside of the Mini wasn't the most functional and was definitely designed to be looked at rather than used but it was fairly well equipped. With a good sound system as standard and the window switches made it feel like an aeroplane which was nice, but overall I feel it has the interior of a fashionable town car rather than a purposeful hot hatch. The 106 has the most basic interior. It is very dated these days but still pretty usable. Mine was fitted with the Half Leather/Half Alcantara seats which were excellent and this is what puts it above the Mini even though it is so poorly equipped. I should say that I am 6'1 and have size 11/12 feet and still found it comfortable to drive everyday, the tiny pedals do take some getting used to but people complaining that it's impossible to drive with big feet are talking rubbish. When choosing between the Clio and the Civic I believe it will be entirely down to what someone would want from a hot hatch. The Clio is very well specced with Climate control, auto electric windows, cruise control, trip computer and big comfy leather and Alcantara seats which are very supportive. Its bad side is the terrible driving position where you feel as though you are sat on the car and the big heavy clutch and sloppy gearbox.
The Civic is pretty much the opposite, it is barely anymore equipped than the older 106 but it more than makes up for this with superb seats, driving position, gearstick and gearbox, pedals and just overall practicality of it all. It also has the largest boot and the most interior space, so for me, although it doesn't have as many toys it wins this one.
1.) Type-R
2.) Clio 182
3.) 106 Gti
4.) Cooper S
Overall Hot Hatch Factor:
Overall it is hard to pick the best Hot Hatch out of these 4. I have tried to be unbiased and it has actually come out with my Current car, the Clio, not winning a category. I bought it because it does everything very well and doesn't have anywhere where it falls too far off the pace. The driving position could be better but that's a small price to pay for what else it is capable of. I think that all of these cars are excellent and I would own them all again. Pound for Pound the 106 Gti has the best performance for your money and it will certainly make you smile the most, but its drawbacks are poor safety and equipment, also with the newest ones now being over 10 years old it is becoming harder to find a minter. The Mini is probably the softest out of all the cars, meant for a more mainstream market, it is definitely the choice to have if you want a fashionable town car with a bit more oomph than your usual 1.2, but not so great if you want a raw hot hatchback for Sunday morning hoons. The Civic is probably the car for that, with a perfect gearbox and a screaming Vtec it's great fun and is spacious enough to a big shop on the way home too.
In conclusion if anyone has managed to read all of this without dying of boredom then firstly congratulations, and secondly I hope it has given a better idea of what these cars are like as daily drivers.
I'm no writer so it may come across as quite waffle but I hope I got my views across.
All opinions and feedback are welcomed, thanks
After picking up A Clio 182 this week I have now owned all four for varying amounts of time and thought I would be able to give a fair comparison of them, so here goes:
I'll start with the spec and models of the ones I've had, obviously I can only compare what I've actually driven and lived with.
Renaultsport Clio 182, 2004, 78k
Honda Civic Type-R EP3, 2003, 74k
Mini Cooper S, R53(S/charged, 163bhp), 72k.
Peugeot 106 Gti, 1997, 85k.
Handling:
I put this category first, because for me it is the most important thing for a hot hatch. Good handling leads to good fun and great handling to great fun, which essentially is what these cars are all about. All 4 of these cars are known for being relatively good handling Fwd cars, they all are pretty capable. I personally found the Ep3 to be the most difficult car to get used to in the bends due to the lightness and lack of feel in the steering, it gripped well but because you couldn't feel what it was doing at the wheels I never had the confidence to push it towards its limits. I'm sure a better driver would have a better opinion of it but for me it just didn't work.
The Mini had better steering feel and felt pretty well weighted when pushing on. It also just would never run out of grip, the handling of the Mini grew on me as time went on and I think on a twisty B road a lot more powerful cars would be hard pushed to stay with it.
One car that I think would be ahead of it is the Clio. Renaultsports are always good handling vehicles and this Clio really does show that. I have not owned it long enough to really push it but it is just so easy to control through corners. You get to a point where you are travelling around bends far quicker than you imagined would be comfortable, yet in the Clio it just seems so easy. The grip never runs out and when it does start to it is so manoeuvrable, easily one of the best handling Fwd cars around, and I don't have to drive them all to say that. It is so much fun in the corners but the 106 is better.
The 106 Gti comes on much skinnier tyres than the other 3, and unlike the Mini and the Clio it doesn't have any sort of ESP system to get you out of trouble if you cock up. But the best bit about it is the rawness of it. It still grips very well and if you keep your foot planted it sticks to the road pretty much as good as the others, but the reason I think it is the best handling is because of how easy it is to adjust once you are in a corner. Lift off oversteer is pretty much on demand, the whole car can change direction mid corner no bother at all and when you're around the bend you fly off down the next straight bit with a huge grin on your face already looking forward to the next one. All are very capable Fwd hatches but the 106 creates the most smiles.
1.) 106 Gti
2.) Clio 182
3.) Cooper S
4.) Type-R
Straight line performance:
None of these cars are meant to be the quickest on a drag strip or in a traffic light GP, but they all do have a good kick behind them when they do need to get a shift on. If they were to all line up on a runway, assuming all cars are standard as they came out of the factory, then the Civic would be the first to 60 and 100 and would reach the highest top speed, no question. So if you are looking for the car with the best figures in straight line performance then the EP3 is definitely the one to choose. This is not to say the other are slowcoaches. They will all hit 60 in just over 7 seconds, including the 106(Peugeot tested the 106 Gti with a passenger and full tank of fuel to make it seem slower and to achieve a lower insurance group. For the accurate performance figures for it look at the Saxo Vts as they are identical.)
The power delivery on the Civic, Clio and 106 are all very similar, not a lot of torque but when kept on cam they will all pull very well. The Mini has the benefit of the supercharger which does make it the most useful for in gear performance, it would also respond the best to modification. However assuming the cars are standard this is how they would stack up in my opinion:
1.) Type-r
2.) Clio 182
3.) Cooper S
4.) 106 Gti
Sound:
This might not be a big deal for a lot of people, but for me the sound a car makes is vital to whether I enjoy driving it. It has to be liveable day to day and excite you when pressing on. With these things in mind and once again assuming the cars are all factory standard, it is really only between the Mini and the Civic for this one. The 106 Gti sounds like a little rally car with a 2" Pugsport echaust popping and flaming at the back, and the Clio sounds brilliant with a Miltek exhaust, but as they don't come with those modifications they just don't stack up to the other two.
When in Vtec the Ep3 sounds brilliant, the only 4 cylinder engines that sound better in my opinion are older B series Honda engines. It is also very quiet on a cruise so it fits the bill in all ways. But the Mini is the best sounding for me, simply because of that Supercharger whine, I don't really need to say much more but it sounds amazing when driving hard and if you can live with it everyday then it's great.
1.) Cooper S
2.) Type-R
3.) Clio 182
4.) 106 Gti
Interior and Living with day to day:
First of all I will mention the seats. Now for this the Mini comes stone dead last. In fairness the Cooper S I had was fitted with the basic cloth seats, but they were terrible. They had no support and looked bad too. The driving position was okay and the pedal box was setup perfectly but all this gets let down by not being comfortable when driving the thing! The inside of the Mini wasn't the most functional and was definitely designed to be looked at rather than used but it was fairly well equipped. With a good sound system as standard and the window switches made it feel like an aeroplane which was nice, but overall I feel it has the interior of a fashionable town car rather than a purposeful hot hatch. The 106 has the most basic interior. It is very dated these days but still pretty usable. Mine was fitted with the Half Leather/Half Alcantara seats which were excellent and this is what puts it above the Mini even though it is so poorly equipped. I should say that I am 6'1 and have size 11/12 feet and still found it comfortable to drive everyday, the tiny pedals do take some getting used to but people complaining that it's impossible to drive with big feet are talking rubbish. When choosing between the Clio and the Civic I believe it will be entirely down to what someone would want from a hot hatch. The Clio is very well specced with Climate control, auto electric windows, cruise control, trip computer and big comfy leather and Alcantara seats which are very supportive. Its bad side is the terrible driving position where you feel as though you are sat on the car and the big heavy clutch and sloppy gearbox.
The Civic is pretty much the opposite, it is barely anymore equipped than the older 106 but it more than makes up for this with superb seats, driving position, gearstick and gearbox, pedals and just overall practicality of it all. It also has the largest boot and the most interior space, so for me, although it doesn't have as many toys it wins this one.
1.) Type-R
2.) Clio 182
3.) 106 Gti
4.) Cooper S
Overall Hot Hatch Factor:
Overall it is hard to pick the best Hot Hatch out of these 4. I have tried to be unbiased and it has actually come out with my Current car, the Clio, not winning a category. I bought it because it does everything very well and doesn't have anywhere where it falls too far off the pace. The driving position could be better but that's a small price to pay for what else it is capable of. I think that all of these cars are excellent and I would own them all again. Pound for Pound the 106 Gti has the best performance for your money and it will certainly make you smile the most, but its drawbacks are poor safety and equipment, also with the newest ones now being over 10 years old it is becoming harder to find a minter. The Mini is probably the softest out of all the cars, meant for a more mainstream market, it is definitely the choice to have if you want a fashionable town car with a bit more oomph than your usual 1.2, but not so great if you want a raw hot hatchback for Sunday morning hoons. The Civic is probably the car for that, with a perfect gearbox and a screaming Vtec it's great fun and is spacious enough to a big shop on the way home too.
In conclusion if anyone has managed to read all of this without dying of boredom then firstly congratulations, and secondly I hope it has given a better idea of what these cars are like as daily drivers.
I'm no writer so it may come across as quite waffle but I hope I got my views across.
All opinions and feedback are welcomed, thanks
I've had several 172s, i owned a 205 gti back in 1999 and have driven a 106 and 306 gti. I've also driven a civic type-r and my wife owns a mini cooper-s, albeit a clubman and non-supercharged model.
Your conclusions are pretty good IMO. I wouldn't have the pug interior above the mini's. I would also criticise the clios for their odd driving position compared to the others.
Other than that, not bad.
Your conclusions are pretty good IMO. I wouldn't have the pug interior above the mini's. I would also criticise the clios for their odd driving position compared to the others.
Other than that, not bad.
Interesting what you say about Peugeot doing 0-60 tests with high weight to get them into lower insurance categories. There's an old top gear video on youtube of a drag race between a 306 gti, Bravo HGT and Mk4 golf GTI 1.8 T. On paper, the 306 gti should be last but it absolutely destroys the other two cars. I wonder when they stopped doing this as I've always thought the 206 GTI 140 and 180 are quicker in real life than they appear on paper.
Great review though.
Great review though.
5RedLights said:
Interesting what you say about Peugeot doing 0-60 tests with high weight to get them into lower insurance categories. There's an old top gear video on youtube of a drag race between a 306 gti, Bravo HGT and Mk4 golf GTI 1.8 T. On paper, the 306 gti should be last but it absolutely destroys the other two cars.
Pretty sure the test showed the 2.0 non-turbo MK4 GTI - so it came as no surprise that it was as slow as feck!FWD hot-hatches make for very boring straight-line cars especially from a standing start. It's more about how they flow, how easy it is to keep them 'on cam' and their pace down a bendy bit of road...
billy939 said:
I personally found the Ep3 to be the most difficult car to get used to in the bends due to the lightness and lack of feel in the steering, it gripped well but because you couldn't feel what it was doing at the wheels I never had the confidence to push it towards its limits. I'm sure a better driver would have a better opinion of it but for me it just didn't work.
Great opening post, but I found this comment interesting for me. Coming to an EP3 from a Smart Roadster, I find the steering perfectly weighted. The feedback is spot on and I can feel the car a lot better than the Smart. When changing back to the Smart its like going from a G27 Force Feed Back Wheel (one of the very best) to a SNES controller. Its a night and day difference.Hi guys, thanks for the great feedback. Im glad some people read all of it, it was far longer then I intended.
In regards to the Mini's interior I suppose I was a bit harsh but from a drivers point of view I found the 106 more simple and practical.
I've never driven a Smart Roadster but would be interested in doing so after hearing that, would be good to make a comparison.
In regards to the Mini's interior I suppose I was a bit harsh but from a drivers point of view I found the 106 more simple and practical.
I've never driven a Smart Roadster but would be interested in doing so after hearing that, would be good to make a comparison.
RobM77 said:
*Fletch* said:
I'd love to see an S Class or Audi owner take a 106 GTi for a day. The interior is comically bad.
They'd come back with a massive grin on their face though 
SarlechS said:
you really need to get yourself into a DC2 Integra.
good review otherwise.
Yes! If my next car is Fwd this will 100% be it. I wanted one this time but couldn't find a nice one in budget. good review otherwise.
A DC5 is also something I'd love to drive, apparently they're far better than ep3's.
SarlechS said:
you really need to get yourself into a DC2 Integra.
good review otherwise.
Yes! If my next car is Fwd this will 100% be it. I wanted one this time but couldn't find a nice one in budget. good review otherwise.
A DC5 is also something I'd love to drive, apparently they're far better than ep3's.
SarlechS said:
you really need to get yourself into a DC2 Integra.
good review otherwise.
What's the consensus on the DC2's steering?good review otherwise.
I realise they're a generation apart, but it always strikes me as odd that the (Civic-based) DC2 is routinely hailed as the best FWD driver's car ever, while the EP3 seems to get slated for its steering feel.
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