RE: Vettel: Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
Vettel annoys and polarizes me, on a regular basis.
I am very much into my F1 - have been for a long while now.
Having had quite a few years of experience in racing myself (superbikes) I know and acknowledge that all racing competitors are generally quite unusual, special people - there aren't so many humans who are willing to risk life and limb on a regular basis, in the pursuit of trophies, fame, money, etc. - or whatever it is that drives them to race.
Actually if you ask me why I spent so much time and money on racing, and took my sensible brain out of my head at race meetings, and was willing to risk serious injury or even death, in order to just win races and a few crappy tin trophies (no money at my level!), and to beat my fellow competitors (who were all just ordinary people like me, most of them with day jobs) then honestly, I probably couldn't tell you why I did it?
So I can appreciate why anyone races to win. Regardless of the cost and consequences. Hence, in F1 I do try and be impartial with the drivers, and try not to be swayed by prejudices, their attitude, and their driving. I like to try and just enjoy the racing and what any particular driver can manage on any particular day.
However. I cannot lie that I struggle to be neutral with regard to two drivers. Alonso is one - despite his obvious natural brilliance, I have seen far too many instances of his arrogance and bravado - and insular behaviour to the sport, bad sentiment to team mates, and sometimes a clearly unsporting nature. So, nothing will now sway me from my opinion of him as a complete t
t, whom I dislike intensely!
The other is Vettel - but my feelings aren't as strong as for Alonso. Firstly, there's an obvious and initial prejudice that many people have towards him in the UK, just for being 'a German.' Well that's out for me - 'ze war' and all that, was a LONG time ago, and anyone being prejudiced towards Germans these days is a blinkered idiot. So it's not that. Re-inforced by the fact that I love Rosberg and Hulkenburg.
Secondly - he's a bit mouthy and arrogant, with perhaps a sense of entitlement. Yes, he is - however, I recognise that traits like these are often not unusual in hugely competitive drivers, who want to win. However, despite him being like this - he's not blatantly unsporting like Alonso has been - he's hard, and unswerving in his dedication - but generally a fair racer on track.
So, he's got a bit of an attitude, but not one that is blatantly bad, or unfair.
Then, when I see him in interviews and on TV programmes like Top Gear, he then comes across as an intelligent, thoughtful, considerate person, who is committed to his racing in every way - and even with a good sense of humour...quite funny, self-depricating...quite appealing and likeable actually?
I therefore should like and respect him.
So...why don't I??? I've no idea! When he says or does something a little controversial on a race day, I find myself shouting at the TV in an entirely irrational and prejudiced manner - using insults which hark back to the 1940's!!! I know I am being an idiot for doing so....but there must be some reason why I do, eh?!!!
sums up my opinion on him and alonso perfectly!I am very much into my F1 - have been for a long while now.
Having had quite a few years of experience in racing myself (superbikes) I know and acknowledge that all racing competitors are generally quite unusual, special people - there aren't so many humans who are willing to risk life and limb on a regular basis, in the pursuit of trophies, fame, money, etc. - or whatever it is that drives them to race.
Actually if you ask me why I spent so much time and money on racing, and took my sensible brain out of my head at race meetings, and was willing to risk serious injury or even death, in order to just win races and a few crappy tin trophies (no money at my level!), and to beat my fellow competitors (who were all just ordinary people like me, most of them with day jobs) then honestly, I probably couldn't tell you why I did it?
So I can appreciate why anyone races to win. Regardless of the cost and consequences. Hence, in F1 I do try and be impartial with the drivers, and try not to be swayed by prejudices, their attitude, and their driving. I like to try and just enjoy the racing and what any particular driver can manage on any particular day.
However. I cannot lie that I struggle to be neutral with regard to two drivers. Alonso is one - despite his obvious natural brilliance, I have seen far too many instances of his arrogance and bravado - and insular behaviour to the sport, bad sentiment to team mates, and sometimes a clearly unsporting nature. So, nothing will now sway me from my opinion of him as a complete t
t, whom I dislike intensely!The other is Vettel - but my feelings aren't as strong as for Alonso. Firstly, there's an obvious and initial prejudice that many people have towards him in the UK, just for being 'a German.' Well that's out for me - 'ze war' and all that, was a LONG time ago, and anyone being prejudiced towards Germans these days is a blinkered idiot. So it's not that. Re-inforced by the fact that I love Rosberg and Hulkenburg.
Secondly - he's a bit mouthy and arrogant, with perhaps a sense of entitlement. Yes, he is - however, I recognise that traits like these are often not unusual in hugely competitive drivers, who want to win. However, despite him being like this - he's not blatantly unsporting like Alonso has been - he's hard, and unswerving in his dedication - but generally a fair racer on track.
So, he's got a bit of an attitude, but not one that is blatantly bad, or unfair.
Then, when I see him in interviews and on TV programmes like Top Gear, he then comes across as an intelligent, thoughtful, considerate person, who is committed to his racing in every way - and even with a good sense of humour...quite funny, self-depricating...quite appealing and likeable actually?
I therefore should like and respect him.
So...why don't I??? I've no idea! When he says or does something a little controversial on a race day, I find myself shouting at the TV in an entirely irrational and prejudiced manner - using insults which hark back to the 1940's!!! I know I am being an idiot for doing so....but there must be some reason why I do, eh?!!!
zeppelin101 said:
I think what has set him apart the last few seasons (ignoring anything in the car) is his ability to lead from the front consistently and make very few mistakes in doing so.
This is often said to be Vettel's great strength but I'm not sure that's exactly unusual; I mean how often do you see the car leading a grand prix make an unforced mistake!? Just spinning off into the gravel for no reason? I know Hamilton had one coming into the pits once but I can't think of any more off the top of my head for any driver.If you're comfortably leading a grand prix it really isn't that hard to just keep lapping neatly if you're under no serious pressure, they all do it. Doing it whilst being harried the whole time is another story and I've seen Vettel make a mistake in that situation the same as many drivers have done.
dinkel said:
Nice win this weekend. Hamilton and Rosberg neglected him when in the winners room.
You're obviously trying to cause an issue where there isn't one. That or you simply didn't watch the race! 
Hamilton and Vettel were chatting to each other before and during the award ceremony and sat beside each other talking like buddies on the podium. You obviously missed the bit where Eddie Jordan even asked them to budge up so he could join the conversation.
It does rather piss me off when (usually sensible) people on Pistonheads try to claim there's issues with certain drivers when they couldn't be further from the truth.
I was only thinking about this the other day actually. There's a confusing facet of 'Britishness' which involves supporting the hard working charasmatic underdog (Guy Martin for example), but criticising the ultra-elite at the top of their sport (Michael Schumacher, Tiger Woods etc). It's possibly a reflection of society in general, where we tend to praise working class heroes yet criticise those with money and status. I find that confusing as surely both deserve praise. Sure, I'd be up on my feet if Manor Marussia won a race, but equally I never once regretted Schumacher's domination or Vettel's domination (or Mansell in '92, Senna in the 80s, or historically Clark in the 60s, Fangio etc etc) I applaud them for it. I feel privileged to watch people who have huge natural talent, great intellect and a huge amount of dedication and hard work, which as far as I'm concerned applies to the whole F1 grid. Vettel's a great driver and seems like a genuinely nice guy. Sure, some of what went on with Webber was rather distasteful (e.g. the whole front wing business after Vettel damaged his), but we don't know the whole story and how much came from Vettel and how much from the team - I don't feel in a position as an armchair fan to criticise what anyone in F1 does to be honest, all I know is that Vettel drove a good race yesterday and he and the team deserved the victory.
RichB said:
You're obviously trying to cause an issue where there isn't one. That or you simply didn't watch the race!
Hamilton and Vettel were chatting to each other before and during the award ceremony and sat beside each other talking like buddies on the podium. You obviously missed the bit where Eddie Jordan even asked them to budge up so he could join the conversation.
It does rather piss me off when (usually sensible) people on Pistonheads try to claim there's issues with certain drivers when they couldn't be further from the truth.
Exactly! In fact, I found it rather amusing that Hamilton and Vettel were so deep in conversation on the podium that they totally ignored Rosberg speaking to Eddie! Hamilton and Vettel were chatting to each other before and during the award ceremony and sat beside each other talking like buddies on the podium. You obviously missed the bit where Eddie Jordan even asked them to budge up so he could join the conversation.
It does rather piss me off when (usually sensible) people on Pistonheads try to claim there's issues with certain drivers when they couldn't be further from the truth.
RobM77 said:
I was only thinking about this the other day actually. There's a confusing facet of 'Britishness' which involves supporting the hard working charasmatic underdog (Guy Martin for example), but criticising the ultra-elite at the top of their sport (Michael Schumacher, Tiger Woods etc). It's possibly a reflection of society in general, where we tend to praise working class heroes yet criticise those with money and status. I find that confusing as surely both deserve praise. Sure, I'd be up on my feet if Manor Marussia won a race, but equally I never once regretted Schumacher's domination or Vettel's domination (or Mansell in '92, Senna in the 80s, or historically Clark in the 60s, Fangio etc etc) I applaud them for it. I feel privileged to watch people who have huge natural talent, great intellect and a huge amount of dedication and hard work, which as far as I'm concerned applies to the whole F1 grid. Vettel's a great driver and seems like a genuinely nice guy. Sure, some of what went on with Webber was rather distasteful (e.g. the whole front wing business after Vettel damaged his), but we don't know the whole story and how much came from Vettel and how much from the team - I don't feel in a position as an armchair fan to criticise what anyone in F1 does to be honest, all I know is that Vettel drove a good race yesterday and he and the team deserved the victory.
People don't dislike Schumacher because of his talent, but because of his morals, or more precisely his lack of them.VladD said:
RobM77 said:
I was only thinking about this the other day actually. There's a confusing facet of 'Britishness' which involves supporting the hard working charasmatic underdog (Guy Martin for example), but criticising the ultra-elite at the top of their sport (Michael Schumacher, Tiger Woods etc). It's possibly a reflection of society in general, where we tend to praise working class heroes yet criticise those with money and status. I find that confusing as surely both deserve praise. Sure, I'd be up on my feet if Manor Marussia won a race, but equally I never once regretted Schumacher's domination or Vettel's domination (or Mansell in '92, Senna in the 80s, or historically Clark in the 60s, Fangio etc etc) I applaud them for it. I feel privileged to watch people who have huge natural talent, great intellect and a huge amount of dedication and hard work, which as far as I'm concerned applies to the whole F1 grid. Vettel's a great driver and seems like a genuinely nice guy. Sure, some of what went on with Webber was rather distasteful (e.g. the whole front wing business after Vettel damaged his), but we don't know the whole story and how much came from Vettel and how much from the team - I don't feel in a position as an armchair fan to criticise what anyone in F1 does to be honest, all I know is that Vettel drove a good race yesterday and he and the team deserved the victory.
People don't dislike Schumacher because of his talent, but because of his morals, or more precisely his lack of them.VladD said:
People don't dislike Schumacher because of his talent, but because of his morals, or more precisely his lack of them.
Yes, I was gonna say.... I think ramming several drivers off the track in an attempt to win titles was a big reason Schuey wasn't liked. What made it worse was he just didn't seem to understand what he had done wrong, not beyond a superficial level anyway. I don't think Vettel has ever gone to such extremes - disobeying team orders is one thing but deliberately ramming a competitor off the road is another.
VolvoT5 said:
Yes, I was gonna say.... I think ramming several drivers off the track in an attempt to win titles was a big reason Schuey wasn't liked. What made it worse was he just didn't seem to understand what he had done wrong, not beyond a superficial level anyway.
I don't think Vettel has ever gone to such extremes - disobeying team orders is one thing but deliberately ramming a competitor off the road is another.
Vettel rammed Webber off in a Turkey race a few years ago, it might have been 2009?I don't think Vettel has ever gone to such extremes - disobeying team orders is one thing but deliberately ramming a competitor off the road is another.
KPE said:
Vettel rammed Webber off in a Turkey race a few years ago, it might have been 2009?
Whilst it wasn't a good move by Vettel, I don't think it was deliberate in the way that Schumacher hit Hill and Villeneuve, or parked up at Monaco. It was just a mis-judged expectation that his team mate would cede the line.
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