RE: Vettel: Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
Difficult to work out if it's the car or what. But ferrari have mysteriously gone from mid field to just trailing merc and I think that might be to do with the way vettel conveys his opinions. The car seems to be built around him now, which has benefited raikonen too (who did well considering how bad things ended up for him).
I like this new vettel. The 4 RB championships mean something, but they kind of look like hamiltons 1 championship in terms of how he'll grow up a lot from 2013.
I like this new vettel. The 4 RB championships mean something, but they kind of look like hamiltons 1 championship in terms of how he'll grow up a lot from 2013.
cramorra said:
it wasn't his talent, couldn't have been the car - must have been just the others driving slow
A lot of people are going to eat humble pie this year.You don't win 4 WDC's on the bounce by accident. Yes, you need a good car but it still takes a great driver to extract the maximum out of it and Vettel did that over and over and over again.
I've always held the belief that he is going to end up as an all time great and that 2014 would be a blip on his CV.
Taz1383 said:
Difficult to work out if it's the car or what. But ferrari have mysteriously gone from mid field to just trailing merc and I think that might be to do with the way vettel conveys his opinions. The car seems to be built around him now, which has benefited raikonen too (who did well considering how bad things ended up for him).
I like this new vettel. The 4 RB championships mean something, but they kind of look like hamiltons 1 championship in terms of how he'll grow up a lot from 2013.
James Allison; Ferrari Technical Director, worked for Lotus when Kimi was there and we all saw how well Kimi did in the Lotus at certain points, now he is at Ferrari heading up the design of their car and both Kimi and Vettel have very similar driving styles. I like this new vettel. The 4 RB championships mean something, but they kind of look like hamiltons 1 championship in terms of how he'll grow up a lot from 2013.
Was extremely happy for Vettel and Ferrari this weekend; I felt he had become a bit too arrogant and self assured at Red Bull and disliked him as a driver, however it was clear to see what the Ferrari win meant to him.
RobM77 said:
VladD said:
RobM77 said:
I was only thinking about this the other day actually. There's a confusing facet of 'Britishness' which involves supporting the hard working charasmatic underdog (Guy Martin for example), but criticising the ultra-elite at the top of their sport (Michael Schumacher, Tiger Woods etc). It's possibly a reflection of society in general, where we tend to praise working class heroes yet criticise those with money and status. I find that confusing as surely both deserve praise. Sure, I'd be up on my feet if Manor Marussia won a race, but equally I never once regretted Schumacher's domination or Vettel's domination (or Mansell in '92, Senna in the 80s, or historically Clark in the 60s, Fangio etc etc) I applaud them for it. I feel privileged to watch people who have huge natural talent, great intellect and a huge amount of dedication and hard work, which as far as I'm concerned applies to the whole F1 grid. Vettel's a great driver and seems like a genuinely nice guy. Sure, some of what went on with Webber was rather distasteful (e.g. the whole front wing business after Vettel damaged his), but we don't know the whole story and how much came from Vettel and how much from the team - I don't feel in a position as an armchair fan to criticise what anyone in F1 does to be honest, all I know is that Vettel drove a good race yesterday and he and the team deserved the victory.
People don't dislike Schumacher because of his talent, but because of his morals, or more precisely his lack of them.KPE said:
Vettel rammed Webber off in a Turkey race a few years ago, it might have been 2009?
Completely different situation. It was a clumsy overtake, stupid but clearly not deliberate. Schumacher rammed at least two drivers off deliberately, purely to advantage himself. He also very obviously parked the car at Monaco (not even slightly defensible, unlike Nico's incident) and had numerous other incidents throughout his career which were right on the limit of what was 'right', if not actually breaking the rules.
Edited by VolvoT5 on Tuesday 31st March 19:49
Schermerhorn said:
cramorra said:
it wasn't his talent, couldn't have been the car - must have been just the others driving slow
A lot of people are going to eat humble pie this year.You don't win 4 WDC's on the bounce by accident. Yes, you need a good car but it still takes a great driver to extract the maximum out of it and Vettel did that over and over and over again.
I've always held the belief that he is going to end up as an all time great and that 2014 would be a blip on his CV.
Something I will undoubtedly get flamed for saying...
One of the most important aspects of a driver is how well they integrate with the team, what development comes out of this, and so how well the car does.
The comments from Ferrari as to the change from Alonso to Vettel prior to this win really illustrate what a better driver Vettel is for the team. This win goes to show the fruits of this labour. Before someone else says it; I don't at all think Alonso jumped at the wrong time.
Lets hope this season has a good battle between the top drivers!
Henry Fiddleton said:
Genuinely pleased for Vettel, Ferrari (shudder) and F1.
Didn't think I'd ever say that.
Anyway, Rosberg needs to up his game/mental strength and we are on for a good season.
I was also genuinely happy for Vettel/ Ferrari, and never expected I'd say that either.Didn't think I'd ever say that.
Anyway, Rosberg needs to up his game/mental strength and we are on for a good season.
Totally agree re Rosberg, would love to see him out-drive Lewis, more through a general dislike of Hamilton than anything else (if you are a Hamilton fan, do not follow him on Twitter- totally ruined the guy for me). For the sake of transparency, I'll admit to an element of jealousy primarily concerning his having done stuff to Nicole Scherzinger.
Can't see Rosberg threatening Lewis this year. His constant chatter over the radio last weekend demonstrated that he's not in the right place mentally. Asking uneccesary questions about other drivers' races that don't affect him at all- his mind just didn't seem to be on the job in hand. As Coulthard very candidly said 'Nico has been on the radio most of this weekend wanting to know what all the other guys are doing, he should focus on his own race'. Started at Yas Marina last year, he knew his car was broken and the Drivers' was lost, yet he was constantly bugging his engineer with 'tell me what I need to do'. Struck me as desperation/ immaturity- not the qualities of a world champion.
Vettel somehow seems less jarring wearing red, maybe I just got sick of seeing him looking so tediously 'winning' in his Red Bull gear. Also seems to have genuinely (and quickly) bonded with his Italian team, which further suggests that he actually is a nice chap. I suspect the hatred for him will diminish if he keeps giving the Mercs a bloody nose this year. Everyone keeps telling us the Mercs are so far ahead that they're unbeatable- would be an interesting switch if Vettel was the guy to actually make this season genuinely exciting/ competitive.
I'd also consider myself a Vettel agnostic, but can easily imagine rooting for him if he's mixing it up with HAM/ ROS. Come to think of it, I was already praying that his car wouldn't bork last weekend from around lap 35.
Was nice to see Verstappen and Sainz looking decent in the Toro Rossos, apart from Verstappens' distinctly '17-year-old-entering-McDonalds-carpark' pit entrance!
daveofedinburgh said:
Totally agree re Rosberg, would love to see him out-drive Lewis, more through a general dislike of Hamilton than anything else (if you are a Hamilton fan, do not follow him on Twitter- totally ruined the guy for me). For the sake of transparency, I'll admit to an element of jealousy primarily concerning his having done stuff to Nicole Scherzinger.
I'm a big Lewis fan, but agree with you about Twitter. I've tried to follow him a couple of times and only managed to last a couple of days. #blessedbygod #weallwintogetherVladD said:
daveofedinburgh said:
Totally agree re Rosberg, would love to see him out-drive Lewis, more through a general dislike of Hamilton than anything else (if you are a Hamilton fan, do not follow him on Twitter- totally ruined the guy for me). For the sake of transparency, I'll admit to an element of jealousy primarily concerning his having done stuff to Nicole Scherzinger.
I'm a big Lewis fan, but agree with you about Twitter. I've tried to follow him a couple of times and only managed to last a couple of days. #blessedbygod #weallwintogetherThe people who follow him and tweet him; my god what utter sycophants.
I believe hearts and minds are won with authenticity.
Raikonnen seems to get a free pass for acting like a sullen teenager because it's not an act.
Mansell has no discernable charm but he didn't pretend to be anything else for the cameras.
I can think of certain politicians and TV presenters who are given a hell of a lot of slack for the same reason.
I think people smell a rat with Vettel and possibly Rosberg because the cheery chappie act is not borne out by what they choose to do when the chips are down.
Raikonnen seems to get a free pass for acting like a sullen teenager because it's not an act.
Mansell has no discernable charm but he didn't pretend to be anything else for the cameras.
I can think of certain politicians and TV presenters who are given a hell of a lot of slack for the same reason.
I think people smell a rat with Vettel and possibly Rosberg because the cheery chappie act is not borne out by what they choose to do when the chips are down.
RoverP6B said:
Hamilton seems a genuinely nice bloke but the tweets do make him look like a prat (as does that heap of pubes atop his head - get a haircut, boy!).
He's a bit of an engigma; a friend of a friend works at McLaren and he said he was a bit above himself when there and would distance himself from the staff, whereas Button didn't. However I have seen instances where he does indeed come across as a genuine nice guy, I loved his genuine pleasure in congratulating Vettel at the weekend and both him and Vettel sitting on the podium with Eddie Jordan; they all came across as a few mates having a chat, which I liked.
The whole gangsta thing comes across as a bit try hard and he just doesn't make it work, it isn't him, it sits uncomfortably with him and just looks awkward and he doesn't look comfortable, its almost as if he feels he has to be like that as that is what young and famous black people do.
HTP99 said:
The whole gangsta thing comes across as a bit try hard and he just doesn't make it work, it isn't him, it sits uncomfortably with him and just looks awkward and he doesn't look comfortable, its almost as if he feels he has to be like that as that is what young and famous black people do.
I do wonder if he's trying to appeal to the black American market to either blend in with his friends or to open up marketing opportunities for that segment in that country.Edited by VladD on Thursday 2nd April 13:43
HTP99 said:
RoverP6B said:
Hamilton seems a genuinely nice bloke but the tweets do make him look like a prat (as does that heap of pubes atop his head - get a haircut, boy!).
He's a bit of an engigma; a friend of a friend works at McLaren and he said he was a bit above himself when there and would distance himself from the staff, whereas Button didn't. However I have seen instances where he does indeed come across as a genuine nice guy, I loved his genuine pleasure in congratulating Vettel at the weekend and both him and Vettel sitting on the podium with Eddie Jordan; they all came across as a few mates having a chat, which I liked.
The whole gangsta thing comes across as a bit try hard and he just doesn't make it work, it isn't him, it sits uncomfortably with him and just looks awkward and he doesn't look comfortable, its almost as if he feels he has to be like that as that is what young and famous black people do.
Button's background gives him that grounding, his old man's background in more down to earth grass roots rallycross and self building his own cars etc., before giving it up to support Jensens own karting career has kept Button's feet on the ground.
Lewis simply tries too hard to be something he simply isn't. Or someone behind the scenes is pushing him to be something he isn't for marketing reasons, as mentioned by another poster.
aeropilot said:
Button's background gives him that grounding, his old man's background in more down to earth grass roots rallycross and self building his own cars etc., before giving it up to support Jensens own karting career has kept Button's feet on the ground.
Lewis simply tries too hard to be something he simply isn't. Or someone behind the scenes is pushing him to be something he isn't for marketing reasons, as mentioned by another poster.
heebeegeetee said:
aeropilot said:
Button's background gives him that grounding, his old man's background in more down to earth grass roots rallycross and self building his own cars etc., before giving it up to support Jensens own karting career has kept Button's feet on the ground.
Lewis simply tries too hard to be something he simply isn't. Or someone behind the scenes is pushing him to be something he isn't for marketing reasons, as mentioned by another poster.
Fair play though, that he did everything and more for the lad, but, you get the impression there's not much 'natural' petrolheadness there for want of a silly phrase.
But that's the problem as well, his background is leafy Hertfordshire, not New York Ghetto - which is the image he seems to be wanting to make out is his background.
HTP99 said:
He's a bit of an engigma; a friend of a friend works at McLaren and he said he was a bit above himself when there and would distance himself from the staff, whereas Button didn't.
However I have seen instances where he does indeed come across as a genuine nice guy, I loved his genuine pleasure in congratulating Vettel at the weekend and both him and Vettel sitting on the podium with Eddie Jordan; they all came across as a few mates having a chat, which I liked.
The whole gangsta thing comes across as a bit try hard and he just doesn't make it work, it isn't him, it sits uncomfortably with him and just looks awkward and he doesn't look comfortable, its almost as if he feels he has to be like that as that is what young and famous black people do.
No surprise. Button genuine nice guy. Hamilton prick, but quickHowever I have seen instances where he does indeed come across as a genuine nice guy, I loved his genuine pleasure in congratulating Vettel at the weekend and both him and Vettel sitting on the podium with Eddie Jordan; they all came across as a few mates having a chat, which I liked.
The whole gangsta thing comes across as a bit try hard and he just doesn't make it work, it isn't him, it sits uncomfortably with him and just looks awkward and he doesn't look comfortable, its almost as if he feels he has to be like that as that is what young and famous black people do.
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