Does my cam look worn? Should I change it?
Discussion
Hi guys,
Could you have a look at my cam for me please? I noticed there was a bit of oil around the bottom of the engine, so thought I’d change the sump gasket and the valley gasket, one thing led to another and now I’m contemplating changing the cam as well, now that it’s all apart. I already have the water pump and power steering pump off, all the inlet manifold and valley gasket off, so I’m kind of halfway there already.
I’ve done cam belts before but never changed a cam, but it doesn’t look too difficult in the Chim. What do you think? Is it looking like it may need replacing? It’s on 60,000 miles now. The lobes don’t feel worn, but there is discolouration there. I already have the valley gasket and rocker gaskets, so I guess I just need to buy a cam and followers and the gasket for the front of the engine. May also need to check the rockers I suppose.
Having just spent nearly £1,000 on the car I'm reluctant to spend any more, but if I need to, I will!
Apologies for the crappy phone pics, I can get some better ones if needs be...
Thanks,
Dan
Could you have a look at my cam for me please? I noticed there was a bit of oil around the bottom of the engine, so thought I’d change the sump gasket and the valley gasket, one thing led to another and now I’m contemplating changing the cam as well, now that it’s all apart. I already have the water pump and power steering pump off, all the inlet manifold and valley gasket off, so I’m kind of halfway there already.
I’ve done cam belts before but never changed a cam, but it doesn’t look too difficult in the Chim. What do you think? Is it looking like it may need replacing? It’s on 60,000 miles now. The lobes don’t feel worn, but there is discolouration there. I already have the valley gasket and rocker gaskets, so I guess I just need to buy a cam and followers and the gasket for the front of the engine. May also need to check the rockers I suppose.
Having just spent nearly £1,000 on the car I'm reluctant to spend any more, but if I need to, I will!
Apologies for the crappy phone pics, I can get some better ones if needs be...
Thanks,
Dan
The easiest way to tell if the cam is worn with the cam still in the engine is to turn the engine over by hand and compare the amount of lift you can see on the valves. If there's significant wear you be able to tell.
I'd guess with 60k on the clock it may well be ready for a new one.
I'd guess with 60k on the clock it may well be ready for a new one.
Impossible to tell from those photos, or any other photos for that matter.
If you're in that deep it would be far better to use a DTI directly on the lobes than try and take the measurement at the rocker.
That way you'd be measuring the true lift/wear and the measurements will not be affected by the hydraulic lifters compressing.
If you find any wear at all, I'd be changing the cam, lifters & timing gear (new chain & sprockets).
It's quite common for 14 lobes to be perfectly serviceable but find two completely worn out ones amongst the 16.
So check each lobe carefully, don't assume that all is fine just because the first few check out good.
I would recommend the Stealth cam from V8 Developments, you can buy a complete kit with quality followers, JP timing set, gaskets ect from Rob.
You'll know they'll be quality parts that will last, and that you're not getting ripped off.
My original cam only had 30,000 miles on it, on a first glance it seemed fine but we eventually found two lobes on the way out & one that was starting to look quite sorry for itself, once removed we could see the followers were dished too.
Personally I think the cam in these cars is a service item, if it's started to wear a bit then it wont be long before it gets really bad as essentially the case hardening will be breached.
Just think where all that worn super hard cam material is going as it travels around your engine, Ok so the filter should catch it but to me changing a worn cam before it gets bad is vital to long Rover V8 engine life.
Your well advised to catch it sooner rather than later.
The Stealth cam profile also brought my car alive so there's an added bonus for you, it's still a very drivable grind but delivers much more zing over 3,000 RPM than the TVR KC435 fitted to the 5.0 litre & 4.0HC cars like mine.
Highly recommended.
If you're in that deep it would be far better to use a DTI directly on the lobes than try and take the measurement at the rocker.
That way you'd be measuring the true lift/wear and the measurements will not be affected by the hydraulic lifters compressing.
If you find any wear at all, I'd be changing the cam, lifters & timing gear (new chain & sprockets).
It's quite common for 14 lobes to be perfectly serviceable but find two completely worn out ones amongst the 16.
So check each lobe carefully, don't assume that all is fine just because the first few check out good.
I would recommend the Stealth cam from V8 Developments, you can buy a complete kit with quality followers, JP timing set, gaskets ect from Rob.
You'll know they'll be quality parts that will last, and that you're not getting ripped off.
My original cam only had 30,000 miles on it, on a first glance it seemed fine but we eventually found two lobes on the way out & one that was starting to look quite sorry for itself, once removed we could see the followers were dished too.
Personally I think the cam in these cars is a service item, if it's started to wear a bit then it wont be long before it gets really bad as essentially the case hardening will be breached.
Just think where all that worn super hard cam material is going as it travels around your engine, Ok so the filter should catch it but to me changing a worn cam before it gets bad is vital to long Rover V8 engine life.
Your well advised to catch it sooner rather than later.
The Stealth cam profile also brought my car alive so there's an added bonus for you, it's still a very drivable grind but delivers much more zing over 3,000 RPM than the TVR KC435 fitted to the 5.0 litre & 4.0HC cars like mine.
Highly recommended.
Think about it this way, if you had a car running a cam belt you'd be replacing that at 60,000 miles.
And you wouldn't think twice about doing it.
Even Porsche Boxter cam chains can snap at this mileage, so a new chain & tensioner is advised.
Knowing what we do about this engine & it's tendency to deliver relatively short cam life, new cam & followers/timing set at 60,000 miles just seems like just good servicing to me.
I'm sure there'll be a stream of people coming on now to say their cam has never been changed and is still going strong at 100,000 miles.
But pull a few of those old cams out & see what they really look like, I bet you'll find they'd be far from being in their first flush of life.
And you wouldn't think twice about doing it.
Even Porsche Boxter cam chains can snap at this mileage, so a new chain & tensioner is advised.
Knowing what we do about this engine & it's tendency to deliver relatively short cam life, new cam & followers/timing set at 60,000 miles just seems like just good servicing to me.
I'm sure there'll be a stream of people coming on now to say their cam has never been changed and is still going strong at 100,000 miles.
But pull a few of those old cams out & see what they really look like, I bet you'll find they'd be far from being in their first flush of life.
ChimpOnGas said:
Think about it this way, if you had a car running a cam belt you'd be replacing that at 60,000 miles.
And you wouldn't think twice about doing it.
Even Porsche Boxter cam chains can snap at this mileage, so a new chain & tensioner is advised.
Knowing what we do about this engine & it's tendency to deliver relatively short cam life, new cam & followers/timing set at 60,000 miles just seems like just good servicing to me.
I'm sure there'll be a stream of people coming on now to say their cam has never been changed and is still going strong at 100,000 miles.
But pull a few of those old cams out & see what they really look like, I bet you'll find they'd be far from being in their first flush of life.
Yeah, I'm starting to think I should, even if it's just as a precaution. I'll try and measure the cam tonight to see how/if it's worn. And you wouldn't think twice about doing it.
Even Porsche Boxter cam chains can snap at this mileage, so a new chain & tensioner is advised.
Knowing what we do about this engine & it's tendency to deliver relatively short cam life, new cam & followers/timing set at 60,000 miles just seems like just good servicing to me.
I'm sure there'll be a stream of people coming on now to say their cam has never been changed and is still going strong at 100,000 miles.
But pull a few of those old cams out & see what they really look like, I bet you'll find they'd be far from being in their first flush of life.
It looks like around £670 for the cam, followers, gasket, chain and pulley! ££££!
zed4 said:
Yeah, I'm starting to think I should, even if it's just as a precaution. I'll try and measure the cam tonight to see how/if it's worn.
It looks like around £670 for the cam, followers, gasket, chain and pulley! ££££!
Well you may be lucky and find your cam is fine, you'll only know for sure by carefully measuring each & every lobe in turn at the lobe itself.It looks like around £670 for the cam, followers, gasket, chain and pulley! ££££!
I have no idea why some cams wear prematurely & some seem to last well, perhaps it's down to the oil used as flat tappets need zinc and a lot of oil doesn't have zinc these days because it can poison catalytic converters.
Perhaps its the quality of the followers, a guy from Piper cams once told me the induction hardened followers around in the 1990's were total rubbish and would knock the cam out in no time.
Perhaps its poor machining of the block casting, if the drilling in the block that caries the follower is not a perfect 90 degrees to the line boring for the cam bearings then the followers aren't going to run flat against the cam lobe so promoting uneven wear.
Perhaps the TVR KC435 was a grind too far, breaching the case hardening before the cam even turned in the engine it was destined for.
Perhaps the lobes and follower faces just dont see enough of an oil film, it only relys on splash/bearing spill after all to get the oil in there & stop the metal to metal contact.
Perhaps long layups dont help, these cars are often treated as toys so suffer long periods of inactivity, this has the potential to allow the oil to drain away from the lobe/follower faces, the first start up after this layup could be where the initial damaging wear takes place.
Perhaps its not one of those things in isolation, more a combination of all or a few of those them.
Its all speculation really, I dont think anyone knows for sure, the only thing we do know for sure is a lot of RV8 cams have a shorter than normal life and the excellent self adjusting hydraulic followers mask that wear exceptionally well.
Whatever the reason with your inlet manifold off & your valley gasket removed, you're in a perfect position to find out for sure what the the condition of your cam truly is.
Let us all know what you find on your 60,000 mile engine, it'll be interesting for us all to know how your cam has faired.
I hope for the sake of you're pocket you find it's in perfect health.
ChimpOnGas said:
I'm sure there'll be a stream of people coming on now to say their cam has never been changed and is still going strong at 100,000 miles.
I won't be one of those people since I needed to replace my cam after 28,000 miles on my '99 450 which was pretty much a daily driver. Fortunately, the replacement seems to be ok so far through to 77,000 miles.JonathanT said:
ChimpOnGas said:
I'm sure there'll be a stream of people coming on now to say their cam has never been changed and is still going strong at 100,000 miles.
I won't be one of those people since I needed to replace my cam after 28,000 miles on my '99 450 which was pretty much a daily driver. Fortunately, the replacement seems to be ok so far through to 77,000 miles.I feel I caught mine in good time, before it really got to work putting metal through the engine.
It seems there's more to this poor cam life problem than just the long layup theory, as your car clearly still needed a fresh cam at low miles even though your car was seeing regular use.
The fact your replacement cam has lasted perfectly for almost 50,000 additional miles is encouraging.
It seems to indicate either the original cams were over ground or of poor quality, and or the followers were of poor quality just like I was told by the guy from Piper cams.
When you replaced the worn cam, what were the new cam & followers you fitted out of interest, and what oil do you use?
Here's mine after almost exactly 30,000 miles, I've seen a lot worse than this but it definitely needed changing.
ChimpOnGas said:
When you replaced the worn cam, what were the new cam & followers you fitted out of interest, and what oil do you use?
Errrr, I'm afraid I was less clued up then compared to now, so I have "a cam" with "some followers" and "oil". My next cam is most likely to be a stealth cam that comes highly recommended.Oil-wise, it's whatever Offords & Hilton were/are putting in whilst Trev is in for his annual service. I think it's a 0W-40, nothing particularly exciting, and I've been using a 5W-50 for top-ups.
Can anyone recommend someone to change the cam for me?
I’m based in New Milton, Hampshire. The car is in my garage where it can get worked on, or I can trailer it to have the work done. I’ve so far removed the inlet manifold, valley gasket, waterpump, and all the hoses, so basically the easy bits!
I’ve tried phazed, Sardonicus and db484bhpv8 but they’re all busy or too far away! I’ve also emailed Southways and am waiting for a price from them once Rich is back in the office. Anyone else I can try around the Hampshire area?
Thanks,
Dan
I’m based in New Milton, Hampshire. The car is in my garage where it can get worked on, or I can trailer it to have the work done. I’ve so far removed the inlet manifold, valley gasket, waterpump, and all the hoses, so basically the easy bits!
I’ve tried phazed, Sardonicus and db484bhpv8 but they’re all busy or too far away! I’ve also emailed Southways and am waiting for a price from them once Rich is back in the office. Anyone else I can try around the Hampshire area?
Thanks,
Dan
TVR Beaver said:
If you've got it that far.. its easy.. DIY, then you can spend time on it and get it 100% 
You reckon? It's just that I'm trying to do it on my own, with no help in a single garage. Plus I'd have no idea how to do the timing and I don't have the dials to get it timed right. I still haven't managed to measure the lobes yet! Need to get hold of a micrometer.
Hi Dan,
Try William Street Services in Southampton (opposite the entrance to Shamrock Quay). They have done some work on mine and I know that Mike (TVR tech) has recently changed a cam on a Chim for another owner. They have reasonable hourly rates too for our part of the world!!
HTH
Peter
Try William Street Services in Southampton (opposite the entrance to Shamrock Quay). They have done some work on mine and I know that Mike (TVR tech) has recently changed a cam on a Chim for another owner. They have reasonable hourly rates too for our part of the world!!
HTH
Peter
Or you could put it back together and drive it up to Rob at V8 Developments.
Christmas is coming, & I know his wife likes shopping with Robs cam work money
I didn't even have a lockup when mine needed changing, with only weekends to work on the car and the high probability of rain stopping play I could see things running into weeks.
So I decided to get some quotes.
I got a comedy quote from my local TVR specialist but Rob's price seemed very fair.
I figured by the time I'd bought the cam, followers, timing set, antifreeze, oil ect ect to do the job myself, Robs price was a bit of a no brainer.
I factored in the fuel to get there & back but even then it still seemed a fair price, especially when you consider I set out for V8 Developments at 6.30am and was back home in Watford with my new Stealth cam at 4.30pm.
Rob kindly did this on a Saturday so I lost no work time, he & Ray really worked as a team and it was very clear from the outset the best thing I could do to help was keep out of the way & make the tea.
Rob pulled everything down & had the cam out in no time, at the same time Ray was cleaning everything up, fettling the rocker gear & uprating the oil pressure relief valve.
A broken stud was extracted, a cam retaining plate was added (mine never had one) & various bolts & bits were replaced from Robs stock of countless RV8 parts he has on hand, dealing with all this myself could have easily added a week to my weekend only DIY efforts.
The stealth cam went in as fast as the old one came out but great care was taken to dial it in correctly with a DTI, the cleaned timing case with it's uprated OP relief spring and fully checked oil pump went over he nice new JP timing set, all my rocker gear Ray had prepared topped it off nicely.
It all went back together with great speed and a huge amount of attention to detail, to be honest all I had to do was make tea & eat the cake Ray's wife turned up with.
It was by far the best day on the spanners I've ever spent, I never even got my hands dirty.
All done in a day, all done with good quality proven parts, and at a very reasonable price.
On the drive home the Stealth cam made itself known immediately, although in the end my old cam wasn't too badly worn the Stealth made a massive difference above 3,000 RPM without losing any drivability below.
When I look back at it, even though my facilities for working on the car are much better now I'd do the exact same thing again
Highly recommended & worth every penny
Christmas is coming, & I know his wife likes shopping with Robs cam work money
I didn't even have a lockup when mine needed changing, with only weekends to work on the car and the high probability of rain stopping play I could see things running into weeks.
So I decided to get some quotes.
I got a comedy quote from my local TVR specialist but Rob's price seemed very fair.
I figured by the time I'd bought the cam, followers, timing set, antifreeze, oil ect ect to do the job myself, Robs price was a bit of a no brainer.
I factored in the fuel to get there & back but even then it still seemed a fair price, especially when you consider I set out for V8 Developments at 6.30am and was back home in Watford with my new Stealth cam at 4.30pm.
Rob kindly did this on a Saturday so I lost no work time, he & Ray really worked as a team and it was very clear from the outset the best thing I could do to help was keep out of the way & make the tea.
Rob pulled everything down & had the cam out in no time, at the same time Ray was cleaning everything up, fettling the rocker gear & uprating the oil pressure relief valve.
A broken stud was extracted, a cam retaining plate was added (mine never had one) & various bolts & bits were replaced from Robs stock of countless RV8 parts he has on hand, dealing with all this myself could have easily added a week to my weekend only DIY efforts.
The stealth cam went in as fast as the old one came out but great care was taken to dial it in correctly with a DTI, the cleaned timing case with it's uprated OP relief spring and fully checked oil pump went over he nice new JP timing set, all my rocker gear Ray had prepared topped it off nicely.
It all went back together with great speed and a huge amount of attention to detail, to be honest all I had to do was make tea & eat the cake Ray's wife turned up with.
It was by far the best day on the spanners I've ever spent, I never even got my hands dirty.
All done in a day, all done with good quality proven parts, and at a very reasonable price.
On the drive home the Stealth cam made itself known immediately, although in the end my old cam wasn't too badly worn the Stealth made a massive difference above 3,000 RPM without losing any drivability below.
When I look back at it, even though my facilities for working on the car are much better now I'd do the exact same thing again
Highly recommended & worth every penny
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