Discussion
Welcome - I think with LPG more than just about anything else it really is a case of buyer beware. There are lots of people who claim to be able to convert, relatively few who can, properly. In particular there appear to be numbers of individuals who may perhaps have worked as junior LPG technicians (or not!) in other countries, who now offer full conversions. I'm sure some are very good, but many clearly aren't.
Said converter said that most of his business is now fixing others' bodges because he charges what is an economic rate, people baulk at it, go somewhere else, and lo and behold, end up paying more in the long run.
Said converter said that most of his business is now fixing others' bodges because he charges what is an economic rate, people baulk at it, go somewhere else, and lo and behold, end up paying more in the long run.
Bonefish Blues said:
Welcome - I think with LPG more than just about anything else it really is a case of buyer beware. There are lots of people who claim to be able to convert, relatively few who can, properly. In particular there appear to be numbers of individuals who may perhaps have worked as junior LPG technicians (or not!) in other countries, who now offer full conversions. I'm sure some are very good, but many clearly aren't.
Said converter said that most of his business is now fixing others' bodges because he charges what is an economic rate, people baulk at it, go somewhere else, and lo and behold, end up paying more in the long run.
Any insight you can offer choosing a installer? Or is it the case of check the credentials and past experience of the cars they have converted? Said converter said that most of his business is now fixing others' bodges because he charges what is an economic rate, people baulk at it, go somewhere else, and lo and behold, end up paying more in the long run.
Challo said:
Any insight you can offer choosing a installer? Or is it the case of check the credentials and past experience of the cars they have converted?
More the latter TBH - but from speaking to individuals you can get an insight into whether they're a Billy Bulls
tter or not. Helps also to look at whether they've been around for a while, too.PM me and I'll give you the name of the individual I was speaking to, and the car we were discussing, if that is of any help?
Bonefish Blues said:
Challo said:
Any insight you can offer choosing a installer? Or is it the case of check the credentials and past experience of the cars they have converted?
More the latter TBH - but from speaking to individuals you can get an insight into whether they're a Billy Bullstter or not. Helps also to look at whether they've been around for a while, too.PM me and I'll give you the name of the individual I was speaking to, and the car we were discussing, if that is of any help?
Im looking for either a fitter, or a DIY route in the midlands. Ive fitted kits before, but i dont think the place I used to go is there anymore so im not sure where to go for a kit and inspection. I know the conversions arent really rocket science overall, but stuff has changed a little since I last did one - looking for a setup for my Jaguar XK8.
I inherited my fathers car about fifteen years ago.A VW Jetta early model.Golf with a boot.LPG tank in the boot.The car was left hand drive.I kept the car for ten years.When we took the engine out the valves where burned if I remember the car had done over 100 thousand miles.L.P.G.is populair in Holland.They have to pay more roadtax do which is a minus.
Some cars are perfectly happy with lpg others aren't.The big Volvo estates where populair.The system I had was Italian.Do your research when starting on lpg find a good installer.I talked to one in Yorkshire asked him questions and got good answers.>
He travelled regular to Holland to bring parts etc.I don't know about the newer systems but they should be far better than what I had.
Some cars are perfectly happy with lpg others aren't.The big Volvo estates where populair.The system I had was Italian.Do your research when starting on lpg find a good installer.I talked to one in Yorkshire asked him questions and got good answers.>
He travelled regular to Holland to bring parts etc.I don't know about the newer systems but they should be far better than what I had.Foppo said:
I inherited my fathers car about fifteen years ago.A VW Jetta early model.Golf with a boot.LPG tank in the boot.The car was left hand drive.I kept the car for ten years.When we took the engine out the valves where burned if I remember the car had done over 100 thousand miles.L.P.G.is populair in Holland.They have to pay more roadtax do which is a minus.
Some cars are perfectly happy with lpg others aren't.The big Volvo estates where populair.The system I had was Italian.Do your research when starting on lpg find a good installer.I talked to one in Yorkshire asked him questions and got good answers.>He travelled regular to Holland to bring parts etc.I don't know about the newer systems but they should be far better than what I had.
Some cars are more prone to premature valve seat wear than others (2L petrol mondeo/mazda engine is a bad one) but flash lube systems will sort that. I have one in mine which drips in 1ml of lube per litre of LPG used. Not sure how many years they have been about so could be why your Jetta never had one fitted. Some cars are perfectly happy with lpg others aren't.The big Volvo estates where populair.The system I had was Italian.Do your research when starting on lpg find a good installer.I talked to one in Yorkshire asked him questions and got good answers.>
He travelled regular to Holland to bring parts etc.I don't know about the newer systems but they should be far better than what I had.
No valve recession problems with a Rover V8, the most common car with this engine is the Range Rover Classic/P38 that also happens to be the most commonly LPG converted car in the UK.
Many of these Range Rovers were converted at or approaching the 100,000 mile mark, and have since gone on to give a further 100,000 miles of service happily consuming an exclusive diet of clean burning low carbon LPG.
If you look on EBay you'll see plenty of 250,000 mile LPG Range Rovers that have covered 150,000 miles (& more) exclusively on LPG with no valve recession issues whatsoever, so while its true some engines can definitely suffer valve recession on gas I have no worries about the super hard valve seats in my TVR Chimaera which also uses that venerable old Rover V8 engine.
Once you've got over the initial investment, converting a big thirsty V8 to dual fuel is a no-brainer, basically for every mile I drive on gas I'm saving £0.10p and the car is now a clear £26 cheaper to fill with LPG than it cost to fill with petrol before the conversion.
I've been able to retain the 300 plus mile range of a standard petrol Chimaera, while boot space has remained largely unaffected.
So if done correctly there really needn't be any compromises, just benefits, and some of these benefits may surprise you
Here's how my TVR stacks up (LPG vs petrol):
EXAMPLES:
Best LPG economy: 1.24 / 0.68 = 1.823 x 23.2 = 42.3 mpg (cost equivalent)
Average LPG economy: 1.24 / 0.68 = 1.823 x 21.5 = 39.20 mpg (cost equivalent)
Here's how clean the oil is after 3,000 miles:
And here's how clean the plugs are when you pull them out:
Running LPG the car is cleaner, more powerful, and the engine will last longer.
Not to mention massively cheaper to own & enjoy
Many of these Range Rovers were converted at or approaching the 100,000 mile mark, and have since gone on to give a further 100,000 miles of service happily consuming an exclusive diet of clean burning low carbon LPG.
If you look on EBay you'll see plenty of 250,000 mile LPG Range Rovers that have covered 150,000 miles (& more) exclusively on LPG with no valve recession issues whatsoever, so while its true some engines can definitely suffer valve recession on gas I have no worries about the super hard valve seats in my TVR Chimaera which also uses that venerable old Rover V8 engine.
Once you've got over the initial investment, converting a big thirsty V8 to dual fuel is a no-brainer, basically for every mile I drive on gas I'm saving £0.10p and the car is now a clear £26 cheaper to fill with LPG than it cost to fill with petrol before the conversion.
I've been able to retain the 300 plus mile range of a standard petrol Chimaera, while boot space has remained largely unaffected.
So if done correctly there really needn't be any compromises, just benefits, and some of these benefits may surprise you
Here's how my TVR stacks up (LPG vs petrol):
- Vehicle: TVR Chimaera 4.0 litre V8
- LPG System: Canems Duel Fuel engine management system
- Tuning: Unique fuel & ignition open loop maps built for each fuel type
- Additional strategy: Enters closed loop to follow AFR targets when certain rules are met
- Vehicle weight: 1103kg wet
- Power: 251 hp on LPG & 249 hp on petrol
- Torque: 268 ft/lbs on LPG & 261 ft/lbs on petrol
- LPG top speed: 152mph (Sat Nav confirmed)
- LPG 0-60: 4.9 seconds (Dynolicious confirmed)
- Best petrol economy: 27.8 mpg (steady 72mph cruise)
- Average petrol economy: 23.1 mpg
- Best LPG economy: 23.2 mpg (steady 72mph cruise = cost equivalent 42.3 mpg*)
- Average LPG economy: 21.5 mpg (cost equivalent 39.20 mpg*)
- Max LPG fill: 65 litres
- LPG range (best): 332 miles
- LPG range (average): 307 miles
- Cost to fill: £44.20 (£70.46 to fill a standard Chimaera with petrol)
- Auxiliary petrol tank additional range (average): 135 miles
- Drivability: Indistinguishable between petrol & LPG (its just faster on gas )
EXAMPLES:
Best LPG economy: 1.24 / 0.68 = 1.823 x 23.2 = 42.3 mpg (cost equivalent)
Average LPG economy: 1.24 / 0.68 = 1.823 x 21.5 = 39.20 mpg (cost equivalent)
Here's how clean the oil is after 3,000 miles:
And here's how clean the plugs are when you pull them out:
Running LPG the car is cleaner, more powerful, and the engine will last longer.
Not to mention massively cheaper to own & enjoy
That TVR sounds awesome!
Not sure if I need to worry about fitting a flashlube system on my Audi, it's the old 4.2 V8 (1999). Been running on gas since June with no issues yet, probably done 4000 miles nearly on gas now.
Running costs have gone down from just under 30p a mile to 19p a mile. Average fuel consumption has dropped from 21mpg on petrol to 19 on gas, I don't think performance has been affected but to be honest I'm not sure if I'd notice. I haven't mapped the gas at all, it's just on the standard map it gets itself from the petrol system. I did get 23mpg on a tank of gas in a sensible motorway run in the summer though which was rewarding, cheaper than driving the mrs diesel on that trip would have been.
Only issue I have is limited range, just over 200 miles with the tank I've got in the spare wheel well. Thinking of fitting a second tank to get up to 400 miles range.
Not sure if I need to worry about fitting a flashlube system on my Audi, it's the old 4.2 V8 (1999). Been running on gas since June with no issues yet, probably done 4000 miles nearly on gas now.
Running costs have gone down from just under 30p a mile to 19p a mile. Average fuel consumption has dropped from 21mpg on petrol to 19 on gas, I don't think performance has been affected but to be honest I'm not sure if I'd notice. I haven't mapped the gas at all, it's just on the standard map it gets itself from the petrol system. I did get 23mpg on a tank of gas in a sensible motorway run in the summer though which was rewarding, cheaper than driving the mrs diesel on that trip would have been.
Only issue I have is limited range, just over 200 miles with the tank I've got in the spare wheel well. Thinking of fitting a second tank to get up to 400 miles range.
jmb88 said:
That TVR sounds awesome!
Thanks 
jmb88 said:
Not sure if I need to worry about fitting a flashlube system on my Audi, it's the old 4.2 V8 (1999). Been running on gas since June with no issues yet, probably done 4000 miles nearly on gas now.
Do check it, ask a few respected installers, for example the Jag V8 is one example that is not LPG friendly. But there are way more LPG safe engines than there are those that are not. There's still a lot of debate about the effectiveness of Flash Lube, TBH I've never seen any conclusive evidence it delivers on it's claims.I'd look at a water/meth injection system, add a dash of light oil to your water/meth brew and you'll have far better metered delivery that will be way better than a Flash Lube system.
jmb88 said:
I did get 23mpg on a tank of gas in a sensible motorway run in the summer though which was rewarding, cheaper than driving the mrs diesel on that trip would have been.
Great result, my TVR is only 2 pence a mile more expensive to fuel than my Toyota Prius and delivers exactly the same pence per mile fuel cost as my wife's 1.4 litre 4 cylinder Nissan Micra. jmb88 said:
Only issue I have is limited range, just over 200 miles with the tank I've got in the spare wheel well. Thinking of fitting a second tank to get up to 400 miles range.
Just do it, after seeing & feeling the savings I upped my LPG capacity just 6 months after the conversion. I effectively swapped a bit of petrol capacity to fit a larger bottom gas tank then took the LPG cylinder free space for expansion down from 15% to 10% to give me the 307 mile range.Realising you can buy a 110Ron fuel for just £3.09 a gallon is a game changer, LPG is an amazing!
I've been running my Celica GT-Four on LPG for around 12k miles now. Just changed out the gas & liquid phase filters for the grand sum of £5 and have given the map a quick check over - The system has been completely uneventful since I installed it and has worked perfectly.
Oh and my 'pence per mile' fuel cost (including valve lube and a couple of splashes of Vpower) has averaged out at ~12.5p over that time.
Oh and my 'pence per mile' fuel cost (including valve lube and a couple of splashes of Vpower) has averaged out at ~12.5p over that time.
ChimpOnGas said:
jmb88 said:
Only issue I have is limited range, just over 200 miles with the tank I've got in the spare wheel well. Thinking of fitting a second tank to get up to 400 miles range.
Just do it, after seeing & feeling the savings I upped my LPG capacity just 6 months after the conversion. I effectively swapped a bit of petrol capacity to fit a larger bottom gas tank then took the LPG cylinder free space for expansion down from 15% to 10% to give me the 307 mile range.The car isn't really worth enough to make it worthwhile doing the work to swap out petrol capacity for gas, and the loss of boot space isn't an issue, as it's very rarely I use it all. Back seats are normally vacant anyway if I've got loads of gear to shift. Only thing I might have to do is buy a bike carrier but again, it's not very often I take it anywhere in the car.
Almost 90,000 miles now in my 2005 XC70 over the last 8 years with no problems at all. Saved an absolute fortune and so much nicer to drive then the diesel versions. No issues with insurance, road tax a bit cheaper, can't use Eurotunnel but ferries are fine.
For those near Worcester, Countrywide Farmers have an excellent account scheme, think it's 59p at the moment.
I know there were some dodgy conversion companies around once but I understand there has been a sortout and less of an issue now.
Biggest problem going forward is lack of suitable interesting cars to convert, too many diesels sold in last few years !
For those near Worcester, Countrywide Farmers have an excellent account scheme, think it's 59p at the moment.
I know there were some dodgy conversion companies around once but I understand there has been a sortout and less of an issue now.
Biggest problem going forward is lack of suitable interesting cars to convert, too many diesels sold in last few years !
dorrisdormouse said:
Im looking for either a fitter, or a DIY route in the midlands. Ive fitted kits before, but i dont think the place I used to go is there anymore so im not sure where to go for a kit and inspection. I know the conversions arent really rocket science overall, but stuff has changed a little since I last did one - looking for a setup for my Jaguar XK8.
We got great advice and service from these guys when our system went haywire. They are specialists in Jag LPG fitting.http://www.jaguarfuelconversions.co.uk/
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