Quantity Surveyor - career progression
Discussion
Christmas and New Year always, for some reason, makes me think about my job. Perhaps it's new year giving a fresh start, or perhaps it's Christmas emptying the pockets and bank accounts and making me think that I could do better elsewhere!
Most years, I head back to work in January with the thought in my mind of either a) quitting work and going it alone as a freelancer (i'm a Quantity Surveyor/Estimator by trade); or b) Applying for a job elsewhere on circa £10-15k a year more.
Neither happens. Well, it did once, in 2008. And what an fairly average move that was.
Reasons for generally not happening are a) doesn't appear to be much freelance work around, b) Most jobs out there only seem to be of very little improvement in salary, conditions etc.
This year however, there appears to be a bit of freelance work out there - but what's niggling me is the forthcoming government crack-down on high-earning tax-loopholer freelancers.
However, in my heart of hearts, I don't really want to move. I like the office in which I work, with the folk whom I work with, and the work that I do. I also like the company and my boss is a nice chap. Pay is good, doesn't really go up much right now but that's the way of construction - or so they way(!), but looking at job ads and what's on offer, i'm probably in the right ball-park anyway. Share-save offers good value also, and my company car is alright too.
It's kind of left me with nothing to aim for in terms of a move but what it's done is force me to think about progression. Something that I've rarely done due to being busy over the past year or two.
I have my appraisal due in Q1 2014 and thinking of what to suggest to my boss in terms of progression.
My boss is open to ideas. At my first appraisal 2 yrs back (I've been with employer 2.5 yrs) my boss openly asked where i'd like to get to with them and would I like XXX's job - XXX being the top chief exec who according to publically available group report earned circa £1.2m last year! I know that's not a true 'offer' and was perhaps tongue in cheek but says to me that he's open to ideas and suggestions as to how I can grow with the company. What encourages me also is that company appeared to hold staff levels during rough time of recession when things were really bad in construction in 2008-2010. On the back of this, pay-rises and bonuses, if any, have been at their lowest in years and a lot of the long-termers are upping sticks. As such, staff turnover is high and most who threaten to jump ship are offered a hefty sum to stay. Suggests to me that if I go in and reiterate my commitment and ask what we can do together to grow my presence and role, they may well pay for the relative training and would be happy to consider promotions etc in 12 months time should clear goals be reached.
As a side note, i'm 31 yrs old, so fairly well-driven with a young family, and with 13 yrs relative industry experience plus a relative degree.
Anyone any advice as to what to look for/suggest in terms of progress? I know it's quite a leading question but I appear generally to hit my targets (a bonus isn't promised in terms of achieving targets mind) and I believe I show a good degree of effort and commitment in terms of hours put in, both in and out of work-time.
Thoughts appreciated!
Most years, I head back to work in January with the thought in my mind of either a) quitting work and going it alone as a freelancer (i'm a Quantity Surveyor/Estimator by trade); or b) Applying for a job elsewhere on circa £10-15k a year more.
Neither happens. Well, it did once, in 2008. And what an fairly average move that was.
Reasons for generally not happening are a) doesn't appear to be much freelance work around, b) Most jobs out there only seem to be of very little improvement in salary, conditions etc.
This year however, there appears to be a bit of freelance work out there - but what's niggling me is the forthcoming government crack-down on high-earning tax-loopholer freelancers.
However, in my heart of hearts, I don't really want to move. I like the office in which I work, with the folk whom I work with, and the work that I do. I also like the company and my boss is a nice chap. Pay is good, doesn't really go up much right now but that's the way of construction - or so they way(!), but looking at job ads and what's on offer, i'm probably in the right ball-park anyway. Share-save offers good value also, and my company car is alright too.
It's kind of left me with nothing to aim for in terms of a move but what it's done is force me to think about progression. Something that I've rarely done due to being busy over the past year or two.
I have my appraisal due in Q1 2014 and thinking of what to suggest to my boss in terms of progression.
My boss is open to ideas. At my first appraisal 2 yrs back (I've been with employer 2.5 yrs) my boss openly asked where i'd like to get to with them and would I like XXX's job - XXX being the top chief exec who according to publically available group report earned circa £1.2m last year! I know that's not a true 'offer' and was perhaps tongue in cheek but says to me that he's open to ideas and suggestions as to how I can grow with the company. What encourages me also is that company appeared to hold staff levels during rough time of recession when things were really bad in construction in 2008-2010. On the back of this, pay-rises and bonuses, if any, have been at their lowest in years and a lot of the long-termers are upping sticks. As such, staff turnover is high and most who threaten to jump ship are offered a hefty sum to stay. Suggests to me that if I go in and reiterate my commitment and ask what we can do together to grow my presence and role, they may well pay for the relative training and would be happy to consider promotions etc in 12 months time should clear goals be reached.
As a side note, i'm 31 yrs old, so fairly well-driven with a young family, and with 13 yrs relative industry experience plus a relative degree.
Anyone any advice as to what to look for/suggest in terms of progress? I know it's quite a leading question but I appear generally to hit my targets (a bonus isn't promised in terms of achieving targets mind) and I believe I show a good degree of effort and commitment in terms of hours put in, both in and out of work-time.
Thoughts appreciated!
First thing to remember, the grass is rarely greener! I know from bitter experience! I've been working freelance for the past 2.5 years, pay is good and it's not a bad firm that I've been working for. I'm looking forward to whatever this crackdown is going to involve, they've been saying that for the past 10 years!
RammyMP said:
First thing to remember, the grass is rarely greener! I know from bitter experience! I've been working freelance for the past 2.5 years, pay is good and it's not a bad firm that I've been working for. I'm looking forward to whatever this crackdown is going to involve, they've been saying that for the past 10 years!
Rammy - are you a QS then? Note that you're fairly local to me as well.I'm currently only on my 3rd employer since 'getting a proper job' in 2001. First company just under 7 yrs, left because i'd be then since 17/18 and at 24 ish was still getting the office gopher jobs despite having 3 lads working directly under me (perhaps i'm just a crap delegator!?). 2nd company was there just under 4 yrs, left before i ended up thumping the Proj Manager that i'd worked with since pretty much day 1.
Never left for less money but Job nr 2 for me wasn't the best of moves and does look a bit odd on my CV as it was a bit away from my specialism.
Freelance work scares my Mrs massively as i'm the only earner in our house and i think she thinks i'll be quickly out of work but most i speak to are in long term freelance roles i.e. 18 months plus.
I'm predominantly an Estimator but started life as a QS and regularly have to turn my hand back to it.
In terms of progression where i am though, i fully intend to get myself booked onto loads of BIM courses at work's expense as thats going to be massive or so i think. Also, plan to upgrade professional memberships.
I've got a share save maturing in 2 yrs time so intend to do what i can in terms of progression before that and really weigh things up in 2 yrs when i've had my payout - it's all just a matter of doing as much as i can now.
A few years back i was tempted to go over to the darkside of freelancing (albeit it in site management) and had the same reservations as yourself. Then in 2009, the company i had been with since leaving school in 1998, laid a load of us of so had nothing to lose by giving freelancing a go.
I havent looked back since.
I havent looked back since.
I manage a team of estimators for an oil company in Aberdeen. 3 of the 8 of us are QS's. The skills are definitely transferable!
Current contract rates are good. With operators, in the range of £600-800 for senior estimators with experience of major projects. The contracting firms probably pay a bit less with a slightly different skillset - smaller projects, mods and maintenance.
I'm not hiring at the moment but there's loads of work around. Don't limit yourself to construction.
Current contract rates are good. With operators, in the range of £600-800 for senior estimators with experience of major projects. The contracting firms probably pay a bit less with a slightly different skillset - smaller projects, mods and maintenance.
I'm not hiring at the moment but there's loads of work around. Don't limit yourself to construction.
Edited by Lefty on Friday 27th December 20:21
good thread, relevant to myself as i am in a very similar position to the OP. 31 years old, currently fully employed, decentish large main contractor with good work in london. problem is the company dont appear to have many real opportunities for genuine career progression.
ive been onto (or i should say a company has been onto me) about coming to work for them as a contractor. large groundworks firm with real genuine opportunities, small enough to make a difference but not too large to be just a number. would be fantastic money too.
i am thinking that 2014 may be the year to really make things happen.
do tell me about this goverment clampdown on freelancers though? from what i read this didnt appear to apply to freelance "consulatants" which is effectively what we would be ?
ive been onto (or i should say a company has been onto me) about coming to work for them as a contractor. large groundworks firm with real genuine opportunities, small enough to make a difference but not too large to be just a number. would be fantastic money too.
i am thinking that 2014 may be the year to really make things happen.
do tell me about this goverment clampdown on freelancers though? from what i read this didnt appear to apply to freelance "consulatants" which is effectively what we would be ?
matlee said:
A few years back i was tempted to go over to the darkside of freelancing (albeit it in site management) and had the same reservations as yourself. Then in 2009, the company i had been with since leaving school in 1998, laid a load of us of so had nothing to lose by giving freelancing a go.
I havent looked back since.
That's all I seem to hear these days!I havent looked back since.
Cant help but think I will make the jump in a few years and will deeply regret not doing it now.
CubanPete said:
If you like your boss, the company and the job that counts for a lot.
Why not ask your boss if he can recommend a course or two and if the company will sponsor you to do them?
That's exactly my plan.Why not ask your boss if he can recommend a course or two and if the company will sponsor you to do them?
Get as much out of them now. Skills to assist me if I carry on there, or to sell myself otherwise if I move on.
Lefty said:
I manage a team of estimators for an oil company in Aberdeen. 3 of the 8 of us are QS's. The skills are definitely transferable!
Current contract rates are good. With operators, in the range of £600-800 for senior estimators with experience of major projects. The contracting firms probably pay a bit less with a slightly different skillset - smaller projects, mods and maintenance.
I'm not hiring at the moment but there's loads of work around. Don't limit yourself to construction.
Is that a day rate? I know we paid someone £650 a few months back but was just a 2 week stint and he was an estimator AND forensic planner.Current contract rates are good. With operators, in the range of £600-800 for senior estimators with experience of major projects. The contracting firms probably pay a bit less with a slightly different skillset - smaller projects, mods and maintenance.
I'm not hiring at the moment but there's loads of work around. Don't limit yourself to construction.
Edited by Lefty on Friday 27th December 20:21
Like to think i'd not limit myself to construction and try to believe i'm able to strip things back to first principle quite well. Bored my father in law to death the other week when trying to explain why a new Honda Jazz costed as much as they do...
M777CUS said:
good thread, relevant to myself as i am in a very similar position to the OP. 31 years old, currently fully employed, decentish large main contractor with good work in london. problem is the company dont appear to have many real opportunities for genuine career progression.
ive been onto (or i should say a company has been onto me) about coming to work for them as a contractor. large groundworks firm with real genuine opportunities, small enough to make a difference but not too large to be just a number. would be fantastic money too.
i am thinking that 2014 may be the year to really make things happen.
do tell me about this goverment clampdown on freelancers though? from what i read this didnt appear to apply to freelance "consulatants" which is effectively what we would be ?
It's been on the Construction Enquirer news site over the past few months mate.ive been onto (or i should say a company has been onto me) about coming to work for them as a contractor. large groundworks firm with real genuine opportunities, small enough to make a difference but not too large to be just a number. would be fantastic money too.
i am thinking that 2014 may be the year to really make things happen.
do tell me about this goverment clampdown on freelancers though? from what i read this didnt appear to apply to freelance "consulatants" which is effectively what we would be ?
Have a look.
There are still loopholes there though or so I believe.
I too have been approached by a Manchester based groundworks firm and have found myself in a similar boat.
I'm probably going to stick with what I've said above. Spend a couple of years trying to progress things as they are and getting as much out of current employer in terms of courses, particularly around the commercial side of BIM, and then see how the land lies thereafter.
sider said:
M777CUS said:
good thread, relevant to myself as i am in a very similar position to the OP. 31 years old, currently fully employed, decentish large main contractor with good work in london. problem is the company dont appear to have many real opportunities for genuine career progression.
ive been onto (or i should say a company has been onto me) about coming to work for them as a contractor. large groundworks firm with real genuine opportunities, small enough to make a difference but not too large to be just a number. would be fantastic money too.
i am thinking that 2014 may be the year to really make things happen.
do tell me about this goverment clampdown on freelancers though? from what i read this didnt appear to apply to freelance "consulatants" which is effectively what we would be ?
It's been on the Construction Enquirer news site over the past few months mate.ive been onto (or i should say a company has been onto me) about coming to work for them as a contractor. large groundworks firm with real genuine opportunities, small enough to make a difference but not too large to be just a number. would be fantastic money too.
i am thinking that 2014 may be the year to really make things happen.
do tell me about this goverment clampdown on freelancers though? from what i read this didnt appear to apply to freelance "consulatants" which is effectively what we would be ?
Have a look.
There are still loopholes there though or so I believe.
I too have been approached by a Manchester based groundworks firm and have found myself in a similar boat.
I'm probably going to stick with what I've said above. Spend a couple of years trying to progress things as they are and getting as much out of current employer in terms of courses, particularly around the commercial side of BIM, and then see how the land lies thereafter.
will continue to read up on this further thoough.
M777CUS said:
ive read that on the construction enquirer (last update a week or so ago) looked like bad news for "labour" but not as fatal to us that may be classed as "consultants".
will continue to read up on this further thoough.
Perhaps that's what they're referring to.will continue to read up on this further thoough.
I don't deal with labour supply much. It does refer to 'hundreds of thousands of staff' and I suppose there aren't literally that many freelance in construction management.
(I've dropped you an email by the way)
There is loads of work out there if you have experience, I work as contract manager for an oil major, ok I have 30years experience, most of it overseas, but I get job offers every month, and most of them are real, I have two companies at the moment that want me to join them, and the group that I work for has 5projects that want me on board, so don't be afraid to contact.
Lefty said:
I manage a team of estimators for an oil company in Aberdeen. 3 of the 8 of us are QS's. The skills are definitely transferable!
Current contract rates are good. With operators, in the range of £600-800 for senior estimators with experience of major projects. The contracting firms probably pay a bit less with a slightly different skillset - smaller projects, mods and maintenance.
I'm not hiring at the moment but there's loads of work around. Don't limit yourself to construction.
I spent a few months late last year trying to get a move into oil & gas and nobody was interested in helping me make the move across at all. Recruiters being the worst for that. I did have a minor break-through when a colleague's brother told me that if I put myself through the IT course (can't recall the name (SAP or something?) but it was something like £2k to do it) then I may be in with a chance. Current contract rates are good. With operators, in the range of £600-800 for senior estimators with experience of major projects. The contracting firms probably pay a bit less with a slightly different skillset - smaller projects, mods and maintenance.
I'm not hiring at the moment but there's loads of work around. Don't limit yourself to construction.
Edited by Lefty on Friday 27th December 20:21
I eventually decided that I'd had enough of main contracting. I hadn't been happy for a while so I decided to get out of it and have moved into a fee earning consultancy role.
Hi All,
Any updates from what everyone else is doing?
I'm still working for a main contractor on a cards in basis. Progression is a slow. A Project Manager pal got a promotion at easter and got a pay rise of a princely sum of £500 taking him to Contracts Manager level.
I expect similar as and when the time comes!
Freelance still very much an option for me at the moment - just getting summer out of the way as I've booked a holiday with a big drive to south of France in around 6 weeks time and jacking now, i'd have to find a reliable car that can get me and the family there. Quite happy to do it in works car for now!
Best freelance offer I seem to be looking at at the moment is around £350 a day.
That's a regional main contractor, around 20 mins drive/12 miles each way.
Would be interested to see how others are progressing/finding things.
Simon
Any updates from what everyone else is doing?
I'm still working for a main contractor on a cards in basis. Progression is a slow. A Project Manager pal got a promotion at easter and got a pay rise of a princely sum of £500 taking him to Contracts Manager level.
I expect similar as and when the time comes!
Freelance still very much an option for me at the moment - just getting summer out of the way as I've booked a holiday with a big drive to south of France in around 6 weeks time and jacking now, i'd have to find a reliable car that can get me and the family there. Quite happy to do it in works car for now!
Best freelance offer I seem to be looking at at the moment is around £350 a day.
That's a regional main contractor, around 20 mins drive/12 miles each way.
Would be interested to see how others are progressing/finding things.
Simon
this thread bump is quite timely, alot has happend for me in the last 4 weeks.
ive basically been offered a job to work for a UK main contractor in europe, had to sign an NDA so really cant go into more than that but headlines are its a significant promotion for me (senior commercial manager) on a major project £150M + with a six figure salary and all the trimmings to boot.
to say i am ecstatic is an understatement.
ive basically been offered a job to work for a UK main contractor in europe, had to sign an NDA so really cant go into more than that but headlines are its a significant promotion for me (senior commercial manager) on a major project £150M + with a six figure salary and all the trimmings to boot.
to say i am ecstatic is an understatement.
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