Alfa Romeo 156 Diesel - Reliability?
Discussion
Right, so I'm moving back home with my parents to clear my debts and save for a deposit on a house with my Mrs in the coming months, currently driving a £1200 Pug 306 diesel. I've worked hard and should be entitled to a healthy bonus soon, so if all goes well I would like to chop my car in for something a bit bigger / safer.
My budget would be £1800 - 2500 and doing 16k a year ideally I would need it to be a diesel.
I looked at Vectras, Mondeos or leggy VW Passats but nothing has piqued my interest quite so much as the handsome Alfa Romeo 156. I can get a nice one within my budget with the 1.9 diesel engine shared by lots of GM cars (Fiat engine).
However, as soon as I mentioned what I was interested in to my dad and my father in law their reaction was the same - that all Alfa Romeo's are unreliable wrecks that nobody wants and I'd be stupid to buy one.
I've done my research and from what I can gather they're not as bad as people make out. I'd be after a facelift model around 2004ish, but unlike other diesels these don't feature any fancy particulate filters which can be problematic. I know they have a dodgey EGR valve - my dad had this issue on his old Astra - there are guides on how to fix this yourself online.
So are they catastrophically unreliable or are my folks dwelling on a bad reputation Alfa's had in the past?
I'll be doing any work on the car myself as I do with all my cars, so garage costs being expensive doesn't bother me.
Any past experiences and advice would be great - for what it's worth neither my dad or father in law have ever worked on, owned or even sat in a 156 to have formed this opinion of them.
My budget would be £1800 - 2500 and doing 16k a year ideally I would need it to be a diesel.
I looked at Vectras, Mondeos or leggy VW Passats but nothing has piqued my interest quite so much as the handsome Alfa Romeo 156. I can get a nice one within my budget with the 1.9 diesel engine shared by lots of GM cars (Fiat engine).
However, as soon as I mentioned what I was interested in to my dad and my father in law their reaction was the same - that all Alfa Romeo's are unreliable wrecks that nobody wants and I'd be stupid to buy one.
I've done my research and from what I can gather they're not as bad as people make out. I'd be after a facelift model around 2004ish, but unlike other diesels these don't feature any fancy particulate filters which can be problematic. I know they have a dodgey EGR valve - my dad had this issue on his old Astra - there are guides on how to fix this yourself online.
So are they catastrophically unreliable or are my folks dwelling on a bad reputation Alfa's had in the past?
I'll be doing any work on the car myself as I do with all my cars, so garage costs being expensive doesn't bother me.
Any past experiences and advice would be great - for what it's worth neither my dad or father in law have ever worked on, owned or even sat in a 156 to have formed this opinion of them.
No personal experience with diesel but they're a better bet than anything later - EGR can be blanked, and no DPF. Fairly solid engines IMO.
Lots of easy to fix things on this car. No CANBUS but does have OBD, and most of the interior can be dismantled by an idiot. Suspension is complicated and fragile compared to its peers, and parts in general aren't the cheapest, but specialists and the owner community are both some of the best around.
I'm not sure it's a car that will ever save you money but it's not a disastrous undertaking by any means.
Lots of easy to fix things on this car. No CANBUS but does have OBD, and most of the interior can be dismantled by an idiot. Suspension is complicated and fragile compared to its peers, and parts in general aren't the cheapest, but specialists and the owner community are both some of the best around.
I'm not sure it's a car that will ever save you money but it's not a disastrous undertaking by any means.
Harji said:
your're saving for a house , want to clear debts and you want to spend some money on a car that you don't need and also being an Alfa will most likely cost you more in the near run.
I'll have whatever you're having
I wouldn't say I don't need it, I find I've outgrown the 306 and want something a bit bigger. Even if I don't buy one in the near future but buy one later on, I'm curious to know if they're as ruinous as everyone is making out, even when you're doing the work on them yourself?I'll have whatever you're having
ITP said:
I'd be looking for one of the last of the original ones, about 2003, with the updated interior and the 2.4 10v 150bhp engine.
Look out for clonky suspension bushes and check the floor pan. Buy from an Alfa fan who has looked after it too.
This.Look out for clonky suspension bushes and check the floor pan. Buy from an Alfa fan who has looked after it too.
Edited by ITP on Friday 24th January 09:28
Two of my friends have had these, bloody fast when re-mapped and both were very reliable - well - nothing went wrong!
The JTD engine doesn't have a great reputation, and I found it a bit 'agricultural' in our GT compared to some of the modern diesels. MPG averaged 42 over 2 years with mixed driving.
EGR valve change is easy and costs around £100 in parts. Took me 2 hours and I'm a luddite!
I had a 156 1.8TS for six months a few years ago. I drove to the Shetland Isles in Winter, and Bournemouth in the summer on several occasions, and it didn't miss a beat.
Suspension components are also deemed a consumable on these apparently.
EGR valve change is easy and costs around £100 in parts. Took me 2 hours and I'm a luddite!
I had a 156 1.8TS for six months a few years ago. I drove to the Shetland Isles in Winter, and Bournemouth in the summer on several occasions, and it didn't miss a beat.
Suspension components are also deemed a consumable on these apparently.
Harji said:
your're saving for a house , want to clear debts and you want to spend some money on a car that you don't need and also being an Alfa will most likely cost you more in the near run.
I'll have whatever you're having
A diesel Alfa of that age should be fine (and should prove just as reliable as anything else it's age). It's hardly a 1980s GTV, etc.I'll have whatever you're having
The 2.4 is a very heavy lump and eats front suspension for fun. It is however a great engine, and lovely looking car. Issues on ours (2001 2.4 10v) include front suspension, thermostat, no electric rear windows, leaking rear crank seal. Thermostat is easy fix, windows just get ignored, the suspension is the annoying one as there seem to be a variety of failure points.
If you fancy fixing the bits on ours you can have it for a grand.
The 20v is more problematic with regards water pump and belts. A lot more expensive in the long run when the 10v delivers just as well. On boost they're lovely.
If you fancy fixing the bits on ours you can have it for a grand.
The 20v is more problematic with regards water pump and belts. A lot more expensive in the long run when the 10v delivers just as well. On boost they're lovely.
Would have no concerns, just change the cambelts on time (and waterpump), check for squeaky suspension (not that expensive, as you can get genuine TRW suspension parts (who make the parts for Alfa) at a significant discount over the Alfa dealer price.
You have mentioned the EGR, otherwise just buy a nice one that has been cared for (as with any car) and enjoy.
You have mentioned the EGR, otherwise just buy a nice one that has been cared for (as with any car) and enjoy.
I've got a 2005 1.9jtd 16v (150 bhp) 156 Sportwagon which I have been running for the last year or so. From my experience thus far:
- EGR valve - yes, these get sooted up, but can be easily removed and cleaned (online guides available alfaowner.com)
- Top and bottom intercooler hoses can split which comes with a loss of power and plumes of black smoke
- Top and bottom front arm suspension bushes are not known for their longevity
- Same goes for front roll bar bushes
- Same goes for rear wheel bearings
- Themostats prone to premature failure - mine needs doing as it rarely gets to an indicated 90 deg c
Tracking and alignment needs to be correctly set. Rear tyres can wear the inside edges with alarming speed if the alignment is out.
That's as much as I can recall in the time I have owned the car. I certainly don't think the 156 diesels are any less reliable that the usual offerings out there.
On the plus side, I see a genuine 55 mpg doing motorway miles (helped by the 6 speed box), the interior is a nice place to be and IMHO, the car still looks very pretty for an estate car. And the engine can be easily remapped for useful power gains (check on Alfaowner.com for lots of info on this).
ETA - waterpumps are also known for failure and should be changed when the cambelt is done
- EGR valve - yes, these get sooted up, but can be easily removed and cleaned (online guides available alfaowner.com)
- Top and bottom intercooler hoses can split which comes with a loss of power and plumes of black smoke
- Top and bottom front arm suspension bushes are not known for their longevity
- Same goes for front roll bar bushes
- Same goes for rear wheel bearings
- Themostats prone to premature failure - mine needs doing as it rarely gets to an indicated 90 deg c
Tracking and alignment needs to be correctly set. Rear tyres can wear the inside edges with alarming speed if the alignment is out.
That's as much as I can recall in the time I have owned the car. I certainly don't think the 156 diesels are any less reliable that the usual offerings out there.
On the plus side, I see a genuine 55 mpg doing motorway miles (helped by the 6 speed box), the interior is a nice place to be and IMHO, the car still looks very pretty for an estate car. And the engine can be easily remapped for useful power gains (check on Alfaowner.com for lots of info on this).
ETA - waterpumps are also known for failure and should be changed when the cambelt is done
I considered buying a 2.4D 20V myself once. Great-looking cars and the diesel engine got good reviews when they were new for having lots of low end torque and sounding nice. Was good for about 140mph and 0-60 in around 8 seconds.
Apart from chocolate suspension, there were issues with poor ground clearance and sumps getting damaged, with the heavy diesel engine, so you might want to be careful if you live anywhere with speed cushions.
I also heard driveshaft failure was a problem, particularly if remapped. Oh, and underbody rustproofing was apparently not good on the later models so definitely check for corrosion and rustproof it properly if you buy one!
Later 20V engine seems to do better mpg (I've seen 40-50 reported) and is 175hp vs 150 (or even 136) for the earlier 2.4 diesels. 1.9 diesel is the Fiat unit also used in Vauxhalls of the time I believe. This seems to have a bad rep. in those cars for turbo/swirl flap/EGR failures - see Honest John. Also here's a list of possible issues:
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/alfa-romeo/15...
I think the 2.4D is a different design but could be wrong. I suspeect there are not enough 2.4s running around to generate any reliability data for that engine though.
Overall the model does have poor reliability stats - as per the link above. However, the fact they are stunning looking, sound great (as 5-cylinders) and go well and do reasonable mpg makes up for a lot, especially if you can do your own maintenance...
Apart from chocolate suspension, there were issues with poor ground clearance and sumps getting damaged, with the heavy diesel engine, so you might want to be careful if you live anywhere with speed cushions.
I also heard driveshaft failure was a problem, particularly if remapped. Oh, and underbody rustproofing was apparently not good on the later models so definitely check for corrosion and rustproof it properly if you buy one!
Later 20V engine seems to do better mpg (I've seen 40-50 reported) and is 175hp vs 150 (or even 136) for the earlier 2.4 diesels. 1.9 diesel is the Fiat unit also used in Vauxhalls of the time I believe. This seems to have a bad rep. in those cars for turbo/swirl flap/EGR failures - see Honest John. Also here's a list of possible issues:
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/alfa-romeo/15...
I think the 2.4D is a different design but could be wrong. I suspeect there are not enough 2.4s running around to generate any reliability data for that engine though.
Overall the model does have poor reliability stats - as per the link above. However, the fact they are stunning looking, sound great (as 5-cylinders) and go well and do reasonable mpg makes up for a lot, especially if you can do your own maintenance...
Harji said:
your're saving for a house , want to clear debts and you want to spend some money on a car that you don't need and also being an Alfa will most likely cost you more in the near run.
I'll have whatever you're having
This. Smoke around in the Pug for a bit longer and add the bonus to the deposit fund. You'll be able to buy a house sooner and then start looking for a better set of wheels.I'll have whatever you're having
SS7
TBH I would just save the money £1800 - 2500 is no mans land in car sales IMO, if you get expensive issues , you have too much in the car to abandon, but the car is not worth enough to warrant an expensive bill. Then again if you do the work yourself thats less of an issue.
Plus my family would get pissed if I moved back with them to save money then spunked an decent amount on a car!
Plus my family would get pissed if I moved back with them to save money then spunked an decent amount on a car!
Much as I enjoyed my 156, it doesn't make sense to buy one (or any other car) to save money under your current circumstances. If the 306 blew up, fair enough. But don't swap a known reliable car for an unknown one when you are saving up.
If you do go for it, the advice given above is all good, especially proof the waterpump has been changed. (Our 1.9 8 valve JTD pump failed at 50,000 miles).
If you do go for it, the advice given above is all good, especially proof the waterpump has been changed. (Our 1.9 8 valve JTD pump failed at 50,000 miles).
I think you guys are right,
It's the Man-maths kicking in, suddenly I'm going to have a lot of cash which I'm supposed to be very disciplined with, but instead I'm trying to see a way of financing my car.
306 is on 113k at present and could do with a cambelt change this year (age rather than mileage-related). Rear beam has a bit of a camber issue too, which means the top of the inside rear wheel (drivers side) is starting to rub against the wheel arch, which is going to do the tyre no good. These are all reasons I was summing this venture up, but it seems I may be better keeping the car - better the devil you know - to coin an old phrase and trying to repair these issues on the cheap.
Not confident doing a cambelt though and rear beams can be expensive unless you buy 2nd hand, which until you put it on the car you won't know how 'square' it is!
It's the Man-maths kicking in, suddenly I'm going to have a lot of cash which I'm supposed to be very disciplined with, but instead I'm trying to see a way of financing my car.
306 is on 113k at present and could do with a cambelt change this year (age rather than mileage-related). Rear beam has a bit of a camber issue too, which means the top of the inside rear wheel (drivers side) is starting to rub against the wheel arch, which is going to do the tyre no good. These are all reasons I was summing this venture up, but it seems I may be better keeping the car - better the devil you know - to coin an old phrase and trying to repair these issues on the cheap.
Not confident doing a cambelt though and rear beams can be expensive unless you buy 2nd hand, which until you put it on the car you won't know how 'square' it is!
C.A.R. said:
I find I've outgrown the 306 and want something a bit bigger.
156 is small.What exactly has grown?
Something that a roofbox and a bike carrier can´t sort?
I´m all for Man Maths but this is more than a bit daft. Keep the Pug, put the savings towards the house deposit fund.
Heck, I´m *still* putting spare cash towards the mortgage - the way I see it, the sooner I pay off two appreciating assets, the more money I´ll have to throw at depreciating ones. Currently €440k to go, equity ATM on the two properties is ca. €420k.
Best of luck whatever you decide
Agree with the sentiments of keeping the 306. But then again it's hard to avoid wanting a new car if you have that itch and it may be your last chance for a while!
Why do you need a diesel? What mileage?
I had the facelift 2.4 20v. Had it for a year and never caused me any reliability problems. I had it serviced to start with and they replaced they thermostat as it was bust.
Had to do the front suspension as it creaked but I'm fairly happy to fix things myself and it was an easy job with plenty of guides on the net.
the upper wishbone bushes perish so you have to replace the entire thing but parts arent expensive.
In the end, I sold it as it was my only car, my new job meant less driving so got something more fun as the Alfa was just a car tbh.
Good cars for the money if you can get a recentish one.
Why do you need a diesel? What mileage?
I had the facelift 2.4 20v. Had it for a year and never caused me any reliability problems. I had it serviced to start with and they replaced they thermostat as it was bust.
Had to do the front suspension as it creaked but I'm fairly happy to fix things myself and it was an easy job with plenty of guides on the net.
the upper wishbone bushes perish so you have to replace the entire thing but parts arent expensive.
In the end, I sold it as it was my only car, my new job meant less driving so got something more fun as the Alfa was just a car tbh.
Good cars for the money if you can get a recentish one.
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