997.2 GT3 RS Dilemma
Discussion
Opinions please PH Porschephiles.
I have a dilemma. I have recently bought and taken delivery of a 997.2 GT3 RS (the car was bought via Colchester OPC) – it’s a fantastic car, with the perfect specification - for me - Air Con, SatNav, Telephone prep, PCCB, Sports Chrono Plus, and Sound Package Plus etc but no front lift. The car is three years old, has had one owner prior to me and was first registered in August 2010. As it was bought via an OPC it came with a new 2 year warranty on it etc... it is exactly the car I wanted and that I was hoping to find.
I had been looking for a 997.2 GT3 RS for a while and had viewed a few, but foolishly took my time deciding whether to proceed and promptly missed the boat. This one came up for sale a few months ago and I leapt in – knowing that if I hung around it would be gone (like the others I had shown an interest in). So I rang the dealership as soon as it opened (the advert went ‘live’ on PH the night before) and placed a deposit on the car immediately.
So all good so far, a story with a happy ending – BUT, the car has only covered 317 miles, and so, even I (with my somewhat limited understanding of the collector car market) can see the potential investment opportunity this particular car presents. And this is perhaps also pertinent at the moment, given the recent discussions on here and in the press with regard to future values of specific Porsche models etc…
To be absolutely clear, I have never bought a car to put away and admire - I much prefer driving them and that’s why I started my search for one – because I wanted one to drive. And I have never bought a car as an investment, as the opportunity to do so, so rarely presents itself.
But, GT3 prices have stabilised recently and some (but not all) are currently rising. Having spoken to a couple of fellow ‘car enthusiast’ friends (the kind who own numerous cars and who know the market fairly well) the consensus seems to be – put it away and don’t drive it. This makes me very sad; but in many respects I can see their point.
So what to do - drive it and let it depreciate like every other car I have ever owned and loved, or put it away, care for it and make some money (potentially) in a few years time. Unfortunately, the value in this car (over that of others) is potentially all in the very low mileage and surety of history I am led to believe - the lower the mileage is and the proof of continuity of history and ownership and care, the more it will be worth in time. If the car had a few thousand miles on it there would of course be no debate and I would have no hesitation in just enjoying it as was intended…
To be honest, I don’t really see too much debate about the future value. The 4.0 RS is already out of reach for most in that they are either in the hands of collectors or with those who are using them as intended and who would not (and have no need to) sell.
The 997.2 RS is, as the last of the manual gearbox, hydraulic steering, Mezger engined cars (discounting the out of reach 4.0 RS), as close to a sure-thing as you can get I think, with the potential to rise significantly over time I believe – many/most are already £10k or so above where they were several months ago when I first started looking for one.
So opinions please – drive it and enjoy, or put it away and spend the money I potentially make on another with a few more miles on it later and pocket the difference?
Please don’t rush to the standard PH judgement call / automated response of ‘drive it you pussy’! If it were YOU in this position – what would YOU honestly do?
Note: I did originally ask this question of my friends hoping they would just say ‘drive it and forget the investment potential’ – but unfortunately they seem to have misunderstood my question; thinking I wanted an honest answer and not just an endorsement of my desire to drive the thing! That’ll teach me…
I have a dilemma. I have recently bought and taken delivery of a 997.2 GT3 RS (the car was bought via Colchester OPC) – it’s a fantastic car, with the perfect specification - for me - Air Con, SatNav, Telephone prep, PCCB, Sports Chrono Plus, and Sound Package Plus etc but no front lift. The car is three years old, has had one owner prior to me and was first registered in August 2010. As it was bought via an OPC it came with a new 2 year warranty on it etc... it is exactly the car I wanted and that I was hoping to find.
I had been looking for a 997.2 GT3 RS for a while and had viewed a few, but foolishly took my time deciding whether to proceed and promptly missed the boat. This one came up for sale a few months ago and I leapt in – knowing that if I hung around it would be gone (like the others I had shown an interest in). So I rang the dealership as soon as it opened (the advert went ‘live’ on PH the night before) and placed a deposit on the car immediately.
So all good so far, a story with a happy ending – BUT, the car has only covered 317 miles, and so, even I (with my somewhat limited understanding of the collector car market) can see the potential investment opportunity this particular car presents. And this is perhaps also pertinent at the moment, given the recent discussions on here and in the press with regard to future values of specific Porsche models etc…
To be absolutely clear, I have never bought a car to put away and admire - I much prefer driving them and that’s why I started my search for one – because I wanted one to drive. And I have never bought a car as an investment, as the opportunity to do so, so rarely presents itself.
But, GT3 prices have stabilised recently and some (but not all) are currently rising. Having spoken to a couple of fellow ‘car enthusiast’ friends (the kind who own numerous cars and who know the market fairly well) the consensus seems to be – put it away and don’t drive it. This makes me very sad; but in many respects I can see their point.
So what to do - drive it and let it depreciate like every other car I have ever owned and loved, or put it away, care for it and make some money (potentially) in a few years time. Unfortunately, the value in this car (over that of others) is potentially all in the very low mileage and surety of history I am led to believe - the lower the mileage is and the proof of continuity of history and ownership and care, the more it will be worth in time. If the car had a few thousand miles on it there would of course be no debate and I would have no hesitation in just enjoying it as was intended…
To be honest, I don’t really see too much debate about the future value. The 4.0 RS is already out of reach for most in that they are either in the hands of collectors or with those who are using them as intended and who would not (and have no need to) sell.
The 997.2 RS is, as the last of the manual gearbox, hydraulic steering, Mezger engined cars (discounting the out of reach 4.0 RS), as close to a sure-thing as you can get I think, with the potential to rise significantly over time I believe – many/most are already £10k or so above where they were several months ago when I first started looking for one.
So opinions please – drive it and enjoy, or put it away and spend the money I potentially make on another with a few more miles on it later and pocket the difference?
Please don’t rush to the standard PH judgement call / automated response of ‘drive it you pussy’! If it were YOU in this position – what would YOU honestly do?
Note: I did originally ask this question of my friends hoping they would just say ‘drive it and forget the investment potential’ – but unfortunately they seem to have misunderstood my question; thinking I wanted an honest answer and not just an endorsement of my desire to drive the thing! That’ll teach me…
Putting myself in your shoes as I'd like to make the jump to an RS this year... Even if it had ZERO miles on it I'd drive the wheels off the thing! Have some fun (lifes too short) and if you keep it over the long term with miles on you'll still make money (Brucey bonus). Plus these cars need to be driven and suffer being sat on their backside gathering dust...
It's almost criminal to sit on something like this an deny someone the chance of a great drive...
It's almost criminal to sit on something like this an deny someone the chance of a great drive...
I understand your predicament but honestly there is only one answer.
I bought my 997.1 GT3 at 20k and it did not have a blemish or mark on it. I have since driven it into Europe a couple of times covering France, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Spain and Italy and the front end is now in need of a respray. Do I regret it - NOT A CHANCE! Has it depreciated - MOST PROBABLY but every time I go out to the garage where it is stored to get some bog roll or washing up liquid etc I look at it and smile.
I smile because I can look at it and I can instantly remember drives I have done in it and the memories of perfect (and not so perfect) gearshifts come back to me. I remember going down the Grimsel pass in Switzerland and the section where the camber of the road followed favourably with the turns in the road and the way the outside wheels were loaded up as I turned to face the next straight and I hit the right pedal and 'smeared' the rear tyres into the road and catapulted down the straight only to repeat the same on the next corner.
The way I see it is this, if you dont drive it you will do yourself a disservice but ask yourself this, why did you buy it in the first place? You KNOW it was to drive it so get out there and drive it.
As a side note, do you want to tell your friends and grandkids about the time you bought a 997 GT3 RS and didnt drive it but made £20k in ten years on it or do you want to tell them that you bought one and drove the b
ks out of it 
I bought my 997.1 GT3 at 20k and it did not have a blemish or mark on it. I have since driven it into Europe a couple of times covering France, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Spain and Italy and the front end is now in need of a respray. Do I regret it - NOT A CHANCE! Has it depreciated - MOST PROBABLY but every time I go out to the garage where it is stored to get some bog roll or washing up liquid etc I look at it and smile.
I smile because I can look at it and I can instantly remember drives I have done in it and the memories of perfect (and not so perfect) gearshifts come back to me. I remember going down the Grimsel pass in Switzerland and the section where the camber of the road followed favourably with the turns in the road and the way the outside wheels were loaded up as I turned to face the next straight and I hit the right pedal and 'smeared' the rear tyres into the road and catapulted down the straight only to repeat the same on the next corner.
The way I see it is this, if you dont drive it you will do yourself a disservice but ask yourself this, why did you buy it in the first place? You KNOW it was to drive it so get out there and drive it.
As a side note, do you want to tell your friends and grandkids about the time you bought a 997 GT3 RS and didnt drive it but made £20k in ten years on it or do you want to tell them that you bought one and drove the b
ks out of it Edited by V8KSN on Wednesday 29th January 13:10
Ok...so you want to optimise utility....
the question is which...economic/enjoyment/both?
Depriving yourself of enjoying the RS is substituting potential $$$ gain for enjoyment loss....yup...loss.
Only you know whether that potential benefit offsets the foregone pleasure....
You could create utility curves...miles vs smiles vs $$$..then work out where you want to sit....much assumptions..but ultimately that be what you are trying to do
A key assumption is what is the price gain for a minimally used vehicle..vs one with sub 2k miles....and how might you optimise that 2k of...smiles (maybe a run to the Stelvio)...and are they worth the somewhat less appreciation....
For me..as I also have an RS ...driving has greater marginal utility than admiring it...
Even a doubling in price...would not compensate for the loss of smiles/experience/fun.
Granted Ferrari California 250 GT territory would change the equation..but i doubt that's where the RS will end up.
the question is which...economic/enjoyment/both?
Depriving yourself of enjoying the RS is substituting potential $$$ gain for enjoyment loss....yup...loss.
Only you know whether that potential benefit offsets the foregone pleasure....
You could create utility curves...miles vs smiles vs $$$..then work out where you want to sit....much assumptions..but ultimately that be what you are trying to do
A key assumption is what is the price gain for a minimally used vehicle..vs one with sub 2k miles....and how might you optimise that 2k of...smiles (maybe a run to the Stelvio)...and are they worth the somewhat less appreciation....
For me..as I also have an RS ...driving has greater marginal utility than admiring it...
Even a doubling in price...would not compensate for the loss of smiles/experience/fun.
Granted Ferrari California 250 GT territory would change the equation..but i doubt that's where the RS will end up.
I don't know of any delivery miles 2.7 RS', they all got used and enjoyed - then retored when needed. If the car has investment potential then it will always have investment potential. At the end of the day, I wouldn't even think about it. Drive it if you want to drive it, that's what you bought it for right? Who knows what will happen to values. So get out there and enjoy it.
Lastly, even if you do use it its likely to be on a pretty infrequent basis (nature of the car) so your can will still be low miles in 5y time.
Lastly, even if you do use it its likely to be on a pretty infrequent basis (nature of the car) so your can will still be low miles in 5y time.
OP: I think you've answered the question yourself when you came on here asking for advice: you bought it 'cos you wanted to drive it, so do that 
If you'd come on here saying that you fancied one purely for investment value, then while I'd think it was a shame, I'd suggest that you garaged it and left it.
My only caveat to driving it is make sure you only use it on special occasions i.e. only use it when it's going to be memorable, that way you should be able to keep the miles low and value high while still getting good enjoyment out of it
If you'd come on here saying that you fancied one purely for investment value, then while I'd think it was a shame, I'd suggest that you garaged it and left it.My only caveat to driving it is make sure you only use it on special occasions i.e. only use it when it's going to be memorable, that way you should be able to keep the miles low and value high while still getting good enjoyment out of it
decide whether it's an investment or a toy.
if the former, park it and don't use it much. Of course, the investment return is uncertain. Also remember the impact of insurance, servicing and road tax costs on your investment return.
if the latter, use it whenever you want. It won't cost much in depreciation. And you will have enjoyed it and had lots of fun in it.
Cars are not investments unless I have so much money that I have lots of cars, and no time to use/drive all of them much of the time; such that lack of use is due to lack of time and inclination; not fear of depreciation.
If you really want to invest the money, buy property/shares/bonds etc.
if the former, park it and don't use it much. Of course, the investment return is uncertain. Also remember the impact of insurance, servicing and road tax costs on your investment return.
if the latter, use it whenever you want. It won't cost much in depreciation. And you will have enjoyed it and had lots of fun in it.
Cars are not investments unless I have so much money that I have lots of cars, and no time to use/drive all of them much of the time; such that lack of use is due to lack of time and inclination; not fear of depreciation.
If you really want to invest the money, buy property/shares/bonds etc.
A friend of mine is dying of throat cancer at the age of 46, a friend of my wifes has serious breast cancer at 45. I am 45, and no longer feeling quite as young as I once did.
I spent the last 25 years and (if I live that long) the next twenty two, working for a retirement that I might only live to see for a very short time.
I own a 911, I own a house that is a building site, that when its finished will be worth more than its cost to renovate. I don't care there is only one working loo, I'm not selling my 911 to pay to finish the house, I'll finish it as I can afford it.
Drive the car and enjoy, put zillions of miles on her. Just think how lucky you are to be able to do so.
I spent the last 25 years and (if I live that long) the next twenty two, working for a retirement that I might only live to see for a very short time.
I own a 911, I own a house that is a building site, that when its finished will be worth more than its cost to renovate. I don't care there is only one working loo, I'm not selling my 911 to pay to finish the house, I'll finish it as I can afford it.
Drive the car and enjoy, put zillions of miles on her. Just think how lucky you are to be able to do so.
The recent rumours about the GT2 being dropped from the 911 range has made me think along these lines about my 997 GT2. It's got a few miles on it but if I put it away in storage now it'll still be considered low mileage in 10 years time.
The problem is that putting it into storage for 10 years and not driving it is a kick in the face to myself for all the hard work I put in to be able to buy it and to my memories of having Porsche posters on my walls when growing up. Even if after 10 years the car makes 50 grand (very optimistic) I'd have lost 10 years of driving my dream car, 50 grand isn't enough for that IMO.
The problem is that putting it into storage for 10 years and not driving it is a kick in the face to myself for all the hard work I put in to be able to buy it and to my memories of having Porsche posters on my walls when growing up. Even if after 10 years the car makes 50 grand (very optimistic) I'd have lost 10 years of driving my dream car, 50 grand isn't enough for that IMO.
LaSource said:
(Hi, BTW, did you receive my PM from a few days ago?)
Yes I sent you one back, not get it I assume? I will check again and resend. Apologies. Guys not driving these sorts of cars is madness and why does everyone assume that cars will only go up. Drive them FFS. We will all be in electric cars soon with autopilot and all that gubbins. This is the last of the glory years where you can still (sort of) enjoy a fast car on the road, just what I think of course.
What is your bet value appreciation of the car in what time frame? Is the upside financially attractive to you? If it is yes, then store the car and sell it later on.
The have the cake and eat it option would be to buy in addition a high mileage GT3 to do your miles on and use the RS for a few special occasions and for your investment
The have the cake and eat it option would be to buy in addition a high mileage GT3 to do your miles on and use the RS for a few special occasions and for your investment
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