B771 Barrhead to Paisley speed limit
Discussion
Just a heads up that there is a 'funny' with the signage on this road, which runs past Barrhead Fire Station to the A726 Hurlet Road.
From the Paisley side, the former 40mph limit ,which changed to a National Speed limit just south of Dykebar Hospital has been replaced by a 30mph changing to 40mph, with 40 repeaters on both sides of the road.
From the Barrhead side, there is still a National Speed limit sign northbound, which might lead to speeding in the 40 limit!
I have reported this anomaly to the Council, hopefully it will be sorted soon.
From the Paisley side, the former 40mph limit ,which changed to a National Speed limit just south of Dykebar Hospital has been replaced by a 30mph changing to 40mph, with 40 repeaters on both sides of the road.
From the Barrhead side, there is still a National Speed limit sign northbound, which might lead to speeding in the 40 limit!
I have reported this anomaly to the Council, hopefully it will be sorted soon.
cat220 said:
I suspect this a break down in communication between Renfrewshire council on the Paisley side and East Renfrewshire on the Barrhead side. I reckon the 40 sign is on the boundary. A 40 limit on that stretch of road is pathetic.
The NSL sign remaining is on the 'Welcome to Renfrewshire' sign, who is the LA who have introduced the changed speed limit, so I think kit is a Renfrewshire Council balls up.There is a dangerous aspect to this. Legally it means the speed limit is not enforceable. The zany aspect to today's traffic enforcement and court system means that you could argue there is no speed limit on that road because it is not defined.
The 40 limit that has been applied does not have the correct signage and does not have enough repeaters also. But it is completely contrary to the NSL limit going in the opposite direction.
You have to ask yourself why anyone who works within the roads system could possibly consider a 40 MPH limit as appropriate for that road. The worst aspect of this is the new Scottish Police Force's mind numbing approach to waving hair dryers at everyone simply to enforce a clearly inappropriate limit to get their numbers up.
If they insist on attempting this change is anyone interested in kicking up blue, bloody murder?
J
The 40 limit that has been applied does not have the correct signage and does not have enough repeaters also. But it is completely contrary to the NSL limit going in the opposite direction.
You have to ask yourself why anyone who works within the roads system could possibly consider a 40 MPH limit as appropriate for that road. The worst aspect of this is the new Scottish Police Force's mind numbing approach to waving hair dryers at everyone simply to enforce a clearly inappropriate limit to get their numbers up.
If they insist on attempting this change is anyone interested in kicking up blue, bloody murder?
J
I'm not an expert, but by eye the distance from the start of the 40 to the repeater sign seems much more than 200m, which would also mean more repeaters are required?
Also, what feckwit decided to put up traffic lights into Barrhead?, with the other ones at the new Roundabout, someone is on a mission to bring the town to a grinding halt!
Also, what feckwit decided to put up traffic lights into Barrhead?, with the other ones at the new Roundabout, someone is on a mission to bring the town to a grinding halt!
munroman said:
I'm not an expert, but by eye the distance from the start of the 40 to the repeater sign seems much more than 200m, which would also mean more repeaters are required?
Also, what feckwit decided to put up traffic lights into Barrhead?, with the other ones at the new Roundabout, someone is on a mission to bring the town to a grinding halt!
More repeaters are definitely required, you'd think they'd do them all at the one time. Also, what feckwit decided to put up traffic lights into Barrhead?, with the other ones at the new Roundabout, someone is on a mission to bring the town to a grinding halt!
Took me ages tonight to get home, massive queues on both of those routes.
It's 12 o'clock and I'm still angry; seething in fact. I live next to the Dalmeny Park Hotel. From there to the workshop in Hillington is a 7 or 8 minute drive.
I left the house at 8.10 this morning: arrived at the workshop at 8.57. Utterly, utterly outrageous!!
Look at this :-
http://www.roadworksscotland.org/MapSearch.aspx?la...
This is the register of roadworks for Scotland. This is supposed to demonstrate the "coordination" of works to minimise disruption. Just look at how the major works have been set up on every route from Barrhead to Paisley all at the same time. What kind of cretins manage this debacle? These are public servants paid handsomely by us to create this kind of absolute chaos on the roads.
We need this to stop. It has being going on for years and has progressively worsened because nobody kicks up hell.
Complain now!
J
I left the house at 8.10 this morning: arrived at the workshop at 8.57. Utterly, utterly outrageous!!
Look at this :-
http://www.roadworksscotland.org/MapSearch.aspx?la...
This is the register of roadworks for Scotland. This is supposed to demonstrate the "coordination" of works to minimise disruption. Just look at how the major works have been set up on every route from Barrhead to Paisley all at the same time. What kind of cretins manage this debacle? These are public servants paid handsomely by us to create this kind of absolute chaos on the roads.
We need this to stop. It has being going on for years and has progressively worsened because nobody kicks up hell.
Complain now!
J
jith said:
It's 12 o'clock and I'm still angry; seething in fact. I live next to the Dalmeny Park Hotel. From there to the workshop in Hillington is a 7 or 8 minute drive.
I left the house at 8.10 this morning: arrived at the workshop at 8.57. Utterly, utterly outrageous!!
Look at this :-
http://www.roadworksscotland.org/MapSearch.aspx?la...
This is the register of roadworks for Scotland. This is supposed to demonstrate the "coordination" of works to minimise disruption. Just look at how the major works have been set up on every route from Barrhead to Paisley all at the same time. What kind of cretins manage this debacle? These are public servants paid handsomely by us to create this kind of absolute chaos on the roads.
We need this to stop. It has being going on for years and has progressively worsened because nobody kicks up hell.
Complain now!
J
Who would the best people to report this to?I left the house at 8.10 this morning: arrived at the workshop at 8.57. Utterly, utterly outrageous!!
Look at this :-
http://www.roadworksscotland.org/MapSearch.aspx?la...
This is the register of roadworks for Scotland. This is supposed to demonstrate the "coordination" of works to minimise disruption. Just look at how the major works have been set up on every route from Barrhead to Paisley all at the same time. What kind of cretins manage this debacle? These are public servants paid handsomely by us to create this kind of absolute chaos on the roads.
We need this to stop. It has being going on for years and has progressively worsened because nobody kicks up hell.
Complain now!
J
It is typical of the attitude towards the motorist, absolutely no thought about how much disruption and pollution these idiots cause through un-coordinated road works.
Add in the A'hole how takes a dumper truck along Parkhouse Road in the rush hour at 15mph, and never pulls in to allow traffic to pass, and it's war out there!
I knew it was only a question of time until they were at it.
Yesterday 2 coppers were out on this stretch waving a hair dryer at approaching cars. They would have had a field day with this so-called 40 limit.
Just so you fully understand what the situation is we should examine a few facts. For a start I cannot get either Glasgow Council or Renfrewshire to admit who is actually responsible for the current situation. The problem is the road "belongs" to both of them as the border is somewhere along this road.
A council must be able to justify a speed limit change on any stretch of road on a number of factors; i.e. they just can't change a limit for the sake of it or because they fancy a different speed. However, the reality is that councils all over the country frequently do. A classic example of a wholly inappropriate speed limit is the new M74 that sports a 50 MPH limit on a superb 4 lane motorway: totally unjustifiable, but brutally patrolled by the police, the same police incidentally who complained that the limit was wrongly set in the first place!
The situation on the Barrhead road however is ludicrous. To impose a 40 limit on a stretch of country road with utterly no hazards whatever is madness. To add insult to injury the limit was 40 in one direction and NSL in the other for around 2 months before they got around to changing the signs.
The vitally important aspect to this now is that the signs are incorrect and do not conform to the appropriate SIs for this kind of road. What that means is that they are unenforceable in law. If you were one of the poor souls who got stopped and ticketed yesterday, DO NOT PAY IT! Kick up hell with both the police and the roads department. The other aspect is how this was carried out. Normally for a change of limit on a road such as this there would have to be something like a serious accident record on the road or a number of justifiable complaints by the public to start the process. This would then be followed up by a consultation process involving local residents and then a notice saying there was going to be a change. After the change was carried out there would be signs notifying motorists of the changes in the limits. They have done NOTHING! No consultation, notices or signs.
I have been trying since 9 AM to get through to the roads department. I finally managed to get through by calling up a favour from a friend who revealed the internal number to me. It is virtually impossible to get through on their automated system. It simply says the lines are busy and disconnects you.
The person responsible at management level is Mr. Drew McNab. His number is 0141 618 7829. Phone him now and complain. I have just had a conversation with him where he revealed that the road was subject to a "speed limit review" and this is why it was lowered. He could not explain what the contents of this review were or what the justification was for the lowered speed limit. I have told him to expect an application under the freedom of information act for a full disclosure of all documents relating to this change. When they become available I will publish them on here. This kind of bloody minded stupidity is becoming more prevalent by the week in this country because we don't complain enough, we just sit back and accept it.
Kick up hell!!
J
Yesterday 2 coppers were out on this stretch waving a hair dryer at approaching cars. They would have had a field day with this so-called 40 limit.
Just so you fully understand what the situation is we should examine a few facts. For a start I cannot get either Glasgow Council or Renfrewshire to admit who is actually responsible for the current situation. The problem is the road "belongs" to both of them as the border is somewhere along this road.
A council must be able to justify a speed limit change on any stretch of road on a number of factors; i.e. they just can't change a limit for the sake of it or because they fancy a different speed. However, the reality is that councils all over the country frequently do. A classic example of a wholly inappropriate speed limit is the new M74 that sports a 50 MPH limit on a superb 4 lane motorway: totally unjustifiable, but brutally patrolled by the police, the same police incidentally who complained that the limit was wrongly set in the first place!
The situation on the Barrhead road however is ludicrous. To impose a 40 limit on a stretch of country road with utterly no hazards whatever is madness. To add insult to injury the limit was 40 in one direction and NSL in the other for around 2 months before they got around to changing the signs.
The vitally important aspect to this now is that the signs are incorrect and do not conform to the appropriate SIs for this kind of road. What that means is that they are unenforceable in law. If you were one of the poor souls who got stopped and ticketed yesterday, DO NOT PAY IT! Kick up hell with both the police and the roads department. The other aspect is how this was carried out. Normally for a change of limit on a road such as this there would have to be something like a serious accident record on the road or a number of justifiable complaints by the public to start the process. This would then be followed up by a consultation process involving local residents and then a notice saying there was going to be a change. After the change was carried out there would be signs notifying motorists of the changes in the limits. They have done NOTHING! No consultation, notices or signs.
I have been trying since 9 AM to get through to the roads department. I finally managed to get through by calling up a favour from a friend who revealed the internal number to me. It is virtually impossible to get through on their automated system. It simply says the lines are busy and disconnects you.
The person responsible at management level is Mr. Drew McNab. His number is 0141 618 7829. Phone him now and complain. I have just had a conversation with him where he revealed that the road was subject to a "speed limit review" and this is why it was lowered. He could not explain what the contents of this review were or what the justification was for the lowered speed limit. I have told him to expect an application under the freedom of information act for a full disclosure of all documents relating to this change. When they become available I will publish them on here. This kind of bloody minded stupidity is becoming more prevalent by the week in this country because we don't complain enough, we just sit back and accept it.
Kick up hell!!
J
munroman said:
James, I have edited your post to remove the 'help from a friend' bit, and sent it to the Barrhead News, and the Daily Record, who own the Paisley Daily Express, I have copied you in on the e-mails.
We are being run by incompetent idiots, and jobsworths with hairdryers.......
Thanks for that. Let's see if this gets a result, although I doubt it. Nothing short of a revolution in this country is going to make a difference.We are being run by incompetent idiots, and jobsworths with hairdryers.......
J
I'm bumping this up because I have something to say about people.
Up until last year I frequently assisted with the defence of many road traffic cases. This came about from my experience over many years of dealing with the worst excesses of the enforcement system in this country and the training I had in the early years in advanced driving and the equipment used mainly to detect speeders.
My experience led me to conclude that the policies of the powers that be in their attempts to improve road safety and the standard of driving are totally and utterly ill founded; they simply do not work. In recent years the situation has deteriorated to the point where every single journey taken involves constant compensation for the misgivings of others. The latest incarnation of the "new" Scottish police force has elevated the concept of policing by targets to unimaginable levels. The majority of those targets are soft and in most cases completely inappropriate. So called speeders on the M74 being booked at speeds of around 60 mph on a 4 lane motorway is by any standard wholly inappropriate and unjustifiable. The police are doing it simply because they can.
In my post about the last case I was involved in I highlighted in great detail what the problems are with the whole system; from being "pursued" and stopped to the circus that is the system of attempting to defend yourself in court; an ordinary person with no criminal intent in extraordinary circumstances appearing in a criminal court charged with a criminal offence. Make no mistake about it, that is the situation you will find yourself in, with the potential to be handed down a far greater sentence than those who are in the same court due to violent behaviour or the sale of drugs.
This is the post:- http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=10&...
Please read it carefully and be under no illusion that it could easily be you in exactly the same situation, facing the loss of your licence, possibly your job, house, etc. On the occasion of the 5th court appearance I literally had to grip the bench in front of me to control my temper such was my outrage at the sheer stupidity demonstrated in that courtroom: the procedure was entirely devoid of logic and justice. It was my last case, I just cannot do that any more.
If you really care about how these things affect us then do something about it.
Do something about the ludicrous policies of the new Scottish police force targeting motorists in completely the wrong manner.
Do something about the grossly incompetent, absonent councils, most of whom are underworked and overpaid. Our roads that have deteriorated to the point of being a serious hazard: we now have pot holes on the motorways! And yet as motorists we have never contributed more than we do now in monetary terms.
Do something about the disgraceful level of fuel duty. Remember Scotland is an oil producing nation. Why the hell are we being taxed to the hilt on our own fuel?
If we don't do something nothing will ever change or improve, and I shudder to think what this country will be like for my grandchildren.
J
Up until last year I frequently assisted with the defence of many road traffic cases. This came about from my experience over many years of dealing with the worst excesses of the enforcement system in this country and the training I had in the early years in advanced driving and the equipment used mainly to detect speeders.
My experience led me to conclude that the policies of the powers that be in their attempts to improve road safety and the standard of driving are totally and utterly ill founded; they simply do not work. In recent years the situation has deteriorated to the point where every single journey taken involves constant compensation for the misgivings of others. The latest incarnation of the "new" Scottish police force has elevated the concept of policing by targets to unimaginable levels. The majority of those targets are soft and in most cases completely inappropriate. So called speeders on the M74 being booked at speeds of around 60 mph on a 4 lane motorway is by any standard wholly inappropriate and unjustifiable. The police are doing it simply because they can.
In my post about the last case I was involved in I highlighted in great detail what the problems are with the whole system; from being "pursued" and stopped to the circus that is the system of attempting to defend yourself in court; an ordinary person with no criminal intent in extraordinary circumstances appearing in a criminal court charged with a criminal offence. Make no mistake about it, that is the situation you will find yourself in, with the potential to be handed down a far greater sentence than those who are in the same court due to violent behaviour or the sale of drugs.
This is the post:- http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=10&...
Please read it carefully and be under no illusion that it could easily be you in exactly the same situation, facing the loss of your licence, possibly your job, house, etc. On the occasion of the 5th court appearance I literally had to grip the bench in front of me to control my temper such was my outrage at the sheer stupidity demonstrated in that courtroom: the procedure was entirely devoid of logic and justice. It was my last case, I just cannot do that any more.
If you really care about how these things affect us then do something about it.
Do something about the ludicrous policies of the new Scottish police force targeting motorists in completely the wrong manner.
Do something about the grossly incompetent, absonent councils, most of whom are underworked and overpaid. Our roads that have deteriorated to the point of being a serious hazard: we now have pot holes on the motorways! And yet as motorists we have never contributed more than we do now in monetary terms.
Do something about the disgraceful level of fuel duty. Remember Scotland is an oil producing nation. Why the hell are we being taxed to the hilt on our own fuel?
If we don't do something nothing will ever change or improve, and I shudder to think what this country will be like for my grandchildren.
J
They're at it again with sections of the Hurlet road (dual carriageway) now reduced from NSL to 40 mph. Now admittedly there have been serious accidents on this road but you can't blame the speed limits for that. The reduced limit sections belong to Glasgow City Council and the remainder (still NSL) to Renfrewshire Council.
Now according to the traffic order http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=174... and confirmed by the map http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=174... the 40 mph limit extends from the junction with Glasgow Road some 200 metres into the Northwest bound carriageway, so we should find NSL signs at this point. However, what we have is 40 mph signs, on what is already a 40 limit. Another cock up and an unenforceable limit?
It's not going to help when a driving instructor who should know better describes a speed limit change as "confusing" and a harmless road as a "death trap" and calls for a reduced limit. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/busy-...
Another quote "Cars rush through a 70mph zone, reaching a series of tight 50mph double bends, before having to quickly drop to 40mph."
I drive this road every day in a fairly quick car and have never been "confused" by the speed limit changes, despite the fact that GCC decided to start their 40 limit just round the "50mph" bend. I've never been trapped into death either. Actually most cars drive along the 70 mph stretch at well below that, I should know as I pass them every morning before slowing down for the restricted vision "50 mph" bend then entering the 40 limit on exiting the bend. There, that sound better with the emotion removed.
Can't see the Daily Record being much use (see above post) when they print this tripe. More quotes from the driving instuctor.
"Too many have been hurt because the road is too fast and the surface is broken and cracked."
“The signs don’t always make it clear what speed you’re supposed to be going and the limits change without much warning."
“I’ve been a driving instructor for 15 years and this road is one of the most confusing I’ve seen.”
For those who don't know it here is the road which no doubt will shortly be 40 mph along its entire length.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.819336,-4.373733...
Now according to the traffic order http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=174... and confirmed by the map http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=174... the 40 mph limit extends from the junction with Glasgow Road some 200 metres into the Northwest bound carriageway, so we should find NSL signs at this point. However, what we have is 40 mph signs, on what is already a 40 limit. Another cock up and an unenforceable limit?
It's not going to help when a driving instructor who should know better describes a speed limit change as "confusing" and a harmless road as a "death trap" and calls for a reduced limit. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/busy-...
Another quote "Cars rush through a 70mph zone, reaching a series of tight 50mph double bends, before having to quickly drop to 40mph."
I drive this road every day in a fairly quick car and have never been "confused" by the speed limit changes, despite the fact that GCC decided to start their 40 limit just round the "50mph" bend. I've never been trapped into death either. Actually most cars drive along the 70 mph stretch at well below that, I should know as I pass them every morning before slowing down for the restricted vision "50 mph" bend then entering the 40 limit on exiting the bend. There, that sound better with the emotion removed.
Can't see the Daily Record being much use (see above post) when they print this tripe. More quotes from the driving instuctor.
"Too many have been hurt because the road is too fast and the surface is broken and cracked."
“The signs don’t always make it clear what speed you’re supposed to be going and the limits change without much warning."
“I’ve been a driving instructor for 15 years and this road is one of the most confusing I’ve seen.”
For those who don't know it here is the road which no doubt will shortly be 40 mph along its entire length.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.819336,-4.373733...
Edited by tulloch on Saturday 28th March 11:29
Going from Barrhead to Paisley their is a 40mph sign then an advisory 50mph sign, so I would imagine you could argue that it would still appear to be a NSL road. from around the advisory sign.
I am fully aware their have been fatalities on that road. One particularly horrid crash where they crossed the other side of the Dual carriageway. They would have being doing much faster than 70mph, and I don't imagine the 40mph having a difference with crashes like that. But perfectly reasonable to go round that in good conditions at a reasonable pace. Frustrating that it has been lowered.
I am fully aware their have been fatalities on that road. One particularly horrid crash where they crossed the other side of the Dual carriageway. They would have being doing much faster than 70mph, and I don't imagine the 40mph having a difference with crashes like that. But perfectly reasonable to go round that in good conditions at a reasonable pace. Frustrating that it has been lowered.
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