D'you know, what I haven't seen?

[25NAD90TUL]

D'you know, what I haven't seen?

Any talk whatsoever on Advanced Driving!

This is how it is...You, or rather me, mentions anything from the AD book, Roadcraft, or any of the publications on AD, you get slated to death, by the people who are supposedly 'advanced'...mention bgol, you are 'a fundamentalist' mention is made of 'tablets of stone' and other bull sh it as if you were some kind of nutter.

Mention 'pull-push' you are some kind of nutter, god help you if you want to talk about 'roadcraft' or 'the system' you are regarded as some kind of inmate of a pshychiatric institution...

I've been trying it for years, you do AD, gawd knows I've done the tests, at my own expense, and all you want to do is talk about the techniques...MY technique is fackin' textbook, I'm very happy with it, but hell, talk about it you're fack'd...

It isn't the first time, I've tried on EVERY AD forum on the net, and you get this bull sh it...Always from the same few.

Now seriously I'm through, I've said what is wrong with IAM/RoSPA, yes you guessed it...all bs...
I've said about the good stuff, PP, BGol, yeah all bs...

Now I'm fackin' thru with the whole gammut...

People, it is real, it all goes on, PP, separation, passing AD tests, it all goes on in the real world, but fack me, not on these forums, not singling PH out, this is the crack on ALL AD forums. I'm fackin' sick of it, I have never heard such a bunch of boring, un-interesting sh it in my life, no wonder people don't come to AD.

For those not in the know, advanced driving as per IAM/RoSPA is the fackin' sh it, all that Pull-Push steering and separation of the brake/gearchange is well wicked, you should try it, it takes driving to another level, but these people who post on AD, well they're just full of sh it, they try to make out they're cool by 'not conforming to the system'...let me tell you, they do!

They all passed their test by 'conforming'...trust me on this, then they try to make out it's all fundamentalist sh it, this is to look 'cool' a fail on every level, I won't be posting no more, it's just all bs, anyone in any doubt just read thru my posts and you'll see, everything I ever posted was textbook AD, but argued the toss about on every level.

Take the example of the woman who posted, been done for speeding, instead of advising a course in AD, where you learn to control the car at speed limits, a respected member of AD suggested going on a course where speed is the main aim...big loss of respect from me! And I respected this person (big mistake I find)...

These people talk about 'thinking for yourself' coming up with your own ideas, then I post a thread inviting this...Mind you, it had to be thoughts of your own, not from some driving manual or other, and what? Yep, zilch, MartinA did same thing, surprise suprise, nothing...

Now I see talk of going round roundabouts twice to what? 'Save time'? AD is about setting off in time for your journey, not doing bs manouvres to 'save time' Whatyagoindo? Bottle it?

So I wanted to make amends, being as I've called all these people out before on other forums, so I'm all nicey-nicey, NO, that's all bs, these people don't want to discuss AD, they want to discuss something on their own lines which, frankly isn't what AD is...

SO, basically, I'm through, I have no interest, but I'll damn well post this thread up, just to let them know I think they're all full of bs...

Yes that's what they expect of me, they're damn right!

Yours most sincerely, Separation_Master, yes a master of separation, all bs as far as these forums are concerned, well fark you, oh as well, I'm the OP of the most deadly boring forum thread on PH, not what I intended but...

T o ssers!

I won't be responding to this post, my forum days are over, but I just want you to know, that coming from a certificated Advance Driver, you're all full of shyte!

[TM99]

25NAD90TUL said:

D'you know, what I haven't seen?

Any talk whatsoever on Advanced Driving!

This is how it is...You, or rather me, mentions anything from the AD book, Roadcraft, or any of the publications on AD, you get slated to death, by the people who are supposedly 'advanced'...mention bgol, you are 'a fundamentalist' mention is made of 'tablets of stone' and other bull sh it as if you were some kind of nutter.

Mention 'pull-push' you are some kind of nutter, god help you if you want to talk about 'roadcraft' or 'the system' you are regarded as some kind of inmate of a pshychiatric institution...

I've been trying it for years, you do AD, gawd knows I've done the tests, at my own expense, and all you want to do is talk about the techniques...MY technique is fackin' textbook, I'm very happy with it, but hell, talk about it you're fack'd...

It isn't the first time, I've tried on EVERY AD forum on the net, and you get this bull sh it...Always from the same few.

Now seriously I'm through, I've said what is wrong with IAM/RoSPA, yes you guessed it...all bs...
I've said about the good stuff, PP, BGol, yeah all bs...

Now I'm fackin' thru with the whole gammut...

People, it is real, it all goes on, PP, separation, passing AD tests, it all goes on in the real world, but fack me, not on these forums, not singling PH out, this is the crack on ALL AD forums. I'm fackin' sick of it, I have never heard such a bunch of boring, un-interesting sh it in my life, no wonder people don't come to AD.

For those not in the know, advanced driving as per IAM/RoSPA is the fackin' sh it, all that Pull-Push steering and separation of the brake/gearchange is well wicked, you should try it, it takes driving to another level, but these people who post on AD, well they're just full of sh it, they try to make out they're cool by 'not conforming to the system'...let me tell you, they do!

They all passed their test by 'conforming'...trust me on this, then they try to make out it's all fundamentalist sh it, this is to look 'cool' a fail on every level, I won't be posting no more, it's just all bs, anyone in any doubt just read thru my posts and you'll see, everything I ever posted was textbook AD, but argued the toss about on every level.

Take the example of the woman who posted, been done for speeding, instead of advising a course in AD, where you learn to control the car at speed limits, a respected member of AD suggested going on a course where speed is the main aim...big loss of respect from me! And I respected this person (big mistake I find)...

These people talk about 'thinking for yourself' coming up with your own ideas, then I post a thread inviting this...Mind you, it had to be thoughts of your own, not from some driving manual or other, and what? Yep, zilch, MartinA did same thing, surprise suprise, nothing...

Now I see talk of going round roundabouts twice to what? 'Save time'? AD is about setting off in time for your journey, not doing bs manouvres to 'save time' Whatyagoindo? Bottle it?

So I wanted to make amends, being as I've called all these people out before on other forums, so I'm all nicey-nicey, NO, that's all bs, these people don't want to discuss AD, they want to discuss something on their own lines which, frankly isn't what AD is...

SO, basically, I'm through, I have no interest, but I'll damn well post this thread up, just to let them know I think they're all full of bs...

Yes that's what they expect of me, they're damn right!

Yours most sincerely, Separation_Master, yes a master of separation, all bs as far as these forums are concerned, well fark you, oh as well, I'm the OP of the most deadly boring forum thread on PH, not what I intended but...

T o ssers!

I won't be responding to this post, my forum days are over, but I just want you to know, that coming from a certificated Advance Driver, you're all full of shyte!

My guess is you're going to have a hell of a hangover in the morning.

[25NAD90TUL]

TM99 said:

My guess is you're going to have a hell of a hangover in the morning.

LOL, but no, I don't drink.

[Garybee]

25NAD90TUL said:

I won't be responding to this post, my forum days are over

25NAD90TUL said:

LOL, but no, I don't drink.

That didn't take long.

[p1esk]

Wow. I don't know what else to say, except to suggest that this sort of tone doesn't seem likely to attract people to AD; and there's few enough drawn to it already.

Going back to the earlier topic about 'The Future of Advanced Driving'; I don't see much of a future for it, certainly not for a significant number of people: I see it becoming even more of a niche activity. My guess is that the motoring climate will become yet more regulated, and further constrained by vehicle developments; so the only option for true AD enthusiasts will be to retain oldish vehicles and hope to retain some freedom to use them on public roads. AD certainly doesn't look to me like it's ever going to be a growth industry.

Having been born in 1940 and enjoyed the motoring environment of the 1950s - 1970s, to my mind the above scenario is utterly depressing as a prospect, but it's what I fear will happen. I would love to be proved wrong.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Pints]

Garybee said:

25NAD90TUL said:

I won't be responding to this post, my forum days are over

25NAD90TUL said:

LOL, but no, I don't drink.

That didn't take long.

Hook. Line. Sinker.

It would appear it's the OP who is full of shyte.

[johnao]

25NAD90TUL said:

D'you know, what I haven't seen?

Any talk whatsoever on Advanced Driving!

This is how it is...You, or rather me, mentions anything from the AD book, Roadcraft, or any of the publications on AD, you get slated to death, by the people who are supposedly 'advanced'...mention bgol, you are 'a fundamentalist' mention is made of 'tablets of stone' and other bull sh it as if you were some kind of nutter.

I wouldn't take it so personally; I don't when it happens to me. I was recently accused of being bizarrely aggressive (I don't think it was by you by the way), but I just laughed it off, because I'm neither bizarre (Oh! yes you are!!!) or aggressive (Oh! No I'm not!!!).

This is an internet forum where there will always be frank, robust exchanges of ideas, and entrenched positions are the order of the day. I sense that either you feel that other posters are either 1) talking rubbish (which may, or may not, be true, but who cares?, or 2) deliberately trying to goad you into an emotional outburst (which they are probably not, deliberately).

And, we must never forget, Advanced Driving is the one subject that everyone argues about. AD consists of 20% of things we must do, 20% of things we mustn't do and 60% of things we argue about interminably; AD is not black and white, it's interminable shades of grey.

Let battle re-commence!

[trashbat]

I don't agree with the OP at all, but along with the usual circular arguments over the technical, a lot of recent posts have been about how AD is declining, how they can't see AD changing, how improving the general standard is hopeless, etc etc.

Well, guess what? You're all in positions of reasonable expertise and authority on the subject, so if that's the tune you play then it's the one that the target audience will hear. Take ownership of it and do something better than directionless complaining to the converted.

[Martin A]

trashbat said:

I don't agree with the OP at all, but along with the usual circular arguments over the technical, a lot of recent posts have been about how AD is declining, how they can't see AD changing, how improving the general standard is hopeless, etc etc.

Well, guess what? You're all in positions of reasonable expertise and authority on the subject, so if that's the tune you play then it's the one that the target audience will hear. Take ownership of it and do something better than directionless complaining to the converted.

On it now, halfway through writing a book.

[waremark]

Martin A said:

trashbat said:

I don't agree with the OP at all, but along with the usual circular arguments over the technical, a lot of recent posts have been about how AD is declining, how they can't see AD changing, how improving the general standard is hopeless, etc etc.

Well, guess what? You're all in positions of reasonable expertise and authority on the subject, so if that's the tune you play then it's the one that the target audience will hear. Take ownership of it and do something better than directionless complaining to the converted.

On it now, halfway through writing a book.

I look forward to it.

[waremark]

25NAD90TUL said:

D'you know, what I haven't seen?

Any talk whatsoever on Advanced Driving!

Some of us know Roadcraft backwards, know the differences between Roadcraft and How To Be a Better Driver, and try to pass on some of what we know to others. But I for one also believe that the essence of advanced driving is not following a set of rules, but applying intelligence along with Concentration, Observation, Anticipation and Planning. I am quite happy to demo PP for all circumstances and full seperation, and I consider that it is an approach to driving which will enable any driver to achieve a high standards - but not necessarily the highest possible standard.

What would you like us to discuss?

[SVS]

The OP is clearly a car driver. My sense is that advanced riding is more popular than advanced driving (perhaps because bikers tend to be enthusiasts, plus the consequences of a mistake are often life-changing).

A crucial difference between the car and bike sides, however, is that motorcycling journalists have been largely won over by advanced training. Unlike car journalists. The majority of bike magazines promote advanced riding in some form, such as BikeSafe or Rapid Training. One 'Ride' magazine journalist is a RoSPA Diploma holder and another wrote a series of articles about his IAM experience. If cynical bike journalists can be convinced of advanced training, surely some car journalists could be too?

Edited by SVS on Wednesday 19th February 07:51

[CrutyRammers]

How many forums is that the OP has flounced out of now?
And it's always everyone else who's always in the wrong

[Catatafish]

Knock back a few valiums, switch off the internet and hand your car keys into a charity shop would be my recommendation.

[paranoid airbag]

So... was the OP for or against a rigid application of push-pull steering and no BGOL?

I genuinely don't know. Either we he seems to feel very strongly about it.

I know it's a tired path, but I do feel compelled to point out - in just about every aspect of life I've experienced thus far, the transition from 'basic' to 'advanced' is marked by the loss of golden rules. To me the point of advanced anything is that you're making the rules by combining your previous knowledge with the situation you're in. Though clearly there's a lot of room for a just-competent driver to improve before reaching that stage

[waremark]

paranoid airbag said:

So... was the OP for or against a rigid application of push-pull steering and no BGOL?

I genuinely don't know. Either we he seems to feel very strongly about it.

I know it's a tired path, but I do feel compelled to point out - in just about every aspect of life I've experienced thus far, the transition from 'basic' to 'advanced' is marked by the loss of golden rules. To me the point of advanced anything is that you're making the rules by combining your previous knowledge with the situation you're in. Though clearly there's a lot of room for a just-competent driver to improve before reaching that stage

I think he had worked hard to master PP and no BGOL, and was a bit upset to discover that some of us did not consider those techniques to be the be all and end all of advanced driving. But still, it is a pity that he could only debate either at full throttle or not at all, and now he has opted for not at all.