War with Russia
Discussion
Liokault said:
Total rubbish!
When was the last time RT ran a story that was was uncomfortable for Putin?
The sheer scale of the overt lies that RT presents as fact in no way compares to most western press.
Happen to watch a program called SohpieCo or something like that, she was interviewing an ex-NATO official and he was most definitely not 'Russia friendly'.When was the last time RT ran a story that was was uncomfortable for Putin?
The sheer scale of the overt lies that RT presents as fact in no way compares to most western press.
Also happened to watch something called CrossTalk where they had some anti-russian opinionated people discussion various issues.
So I think I'd have to disagree with your blunt assertion that they do not provide at least some measure of balance.
Propaganda is a very interesting subject, its not only how events are reported it is also which events are chosen to be reported and which are left to go 'under the carpet'..... while I do agree that RT seems to report more bluntly on certain issues, by the same degree I would hazard a guess that many western media chose to not report on issues that place a negative light on western activities/interests.
Like has been said many times, each side is as bad as the other, the term 'information wars' is a high priority for many media outlets.
skyrover said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
I love your delusion, he loses his job for exposing world changing lies, is hounded by the government and bowed into silence, the hard questions he asked are forgotten, until things start going wrong with the adventure years later. Oh never mind that, well done free press.
He went on to bring down Ken Livingstone and is currently doing very well for himself as a freelance journalist and cycling commissioner for London. There's no great conspiracy to crush him.QuantumTokoloshi said:
I am no supporter of RT, and recognise the intrinsic bias they portray. I am also well aware of the limitations of the western "free press" you hold so much faith in. One propagandist is no better than another.
Again, you are confusing "bias" with "propaganda".Let me know when RT contradicts the Kremlin.
Please watch the documentary I posted a few entries back, to provide a evidence based argument, from John Pilger, a respected investigative journalist on this matter.
Propaganda is not bias, but bias is in this case, is delivered by the propaganda.
Let us look at a recent example, Syria and Asaad. We were inundated with stories about the terror of the Asaad regime, from all the mainstream media voices beating the drums of war. The gas attacks were laid firmly and unequivocally at his door, when there was reliable evidence contradicting this, which received scant coverage.
The glorification of the "freedom fighter" (note: not terrorist) struggling against the Syrian Regime (note: not government), the glorious "resistance" were all "the good guys". The continual message ensured Asaad was evil incarnate. No mention of Al Nusra, Al Qaeda and then lately ISIS, that did not fit the agenda. We need to arm them, train them, then provide air support for them. Libya No. 2 if you will.
We now know that this black and white picture is totally false, but not from the mainstream media sources. It took alternate news sources to start moderating those messages, to see the complexity of the situation with yet another Middle Eastern country about to be bombed for peace.
As an aside, it is funny how there has now been found a way to bomb Syria. Enter ISIS, the new evil incarnate, and the result, Syria will experience high explosive freedom, and some of those will no doubt be targeted at Asaad and Co. Convenient that, took longer, thanks to that whole temporary democratic hiatus, but same result in the end.
The war with Eurasia continues. Peace is war.
Bias via propaganda, the great game is played by both sides.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Stuff
I don't buy it.Pilger is well known polemicist, but he sometimes suffers from confirmation bias. He sees what he wants to see. Everything to him seems to be observed through a lens. Everything to him is about US hegemony. According to Pilger, Everything is Always Our Fault.
Taking RT and the Russian media and somehow even pretending they can be compared with the West is far too much of a reach. The US media can be partisan ( the BBC less so ) but both are beacons of truth compared to Russian media.
Western media is generally reflective of the simple fact that governments and politicians in the West have a short shelf life - every 5 years or so they get changed and so the effects of their interference ( if or where there is any ) are short-lived. Russia is not a proper democracy, so consequently their media don't have to worry about being accountable to different leaders who change every few years.
In short, IMO you are wrong to weight Russian propaganda and Western media in the same way. For proof of this - try and find a Pilger-like figure on the Russian side who is still free to offer his opinions. There aren't any. They are either muzzled or imprisoned. Or killed.
toppstuff said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Stuff
additional stuffBeing paranoid does not mean people are not following you.
I disagree with your view, but that does not mean it is wrong, nor mine.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
toppstuff said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Stuff
additional stuffBeing paranoid does not mean people are not following you.
I disagree with your view, but that does not mean it is wrong, nor mine.
If you can find a critical polemic on Russian foreign policy written from within Russia, please do send me a link.
toppstuff said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
toppstuff said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Stuff
additional stuffBeing paranoid does not mean people are not following you.
I disagree with your view, but that does not mean it is wrong, nor mine.
If you can find a critical polemic on Russian foreign policy written from within Russia, please do send me a link.
These Russian investigative journalists might be a starting point.
http://www.icij.org/journalists/yevgenia-albats
http://www.icij.org/journalists/roman-anin
http://www.icij.org/journalists/roman-shleynov
They all seem to have taken on various parts of the Russian state, including corruption at the Sochi games, which probably was one of the easier assignments. Notice not mainstream media, but alternative sources, same counts for the UK or USA.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 19th September 18:32
[quote=QuantumTokoloshi]
The gas attacks were laid firmly and unequivocally at his door, when there was reliable evidence contradicting this, which received scant coverage.
___________________________________
I don't wish to get off the subject of the thread but being as I have followed closely the Syrian conflict since it kicked off in Deraa in 2011 I'd like to have a link or two to this specific 'reliable evidence' and it's source, please?
You of course know that in the recent Russian backed biological & chemical weapons collection from Assad's Syria chlorine gas was not on the list and that since then this chemical has been dropped from helicopters onto residential areas around the country?
AFAIK 'NONE' of the opposition groups have helicopters in active use so that only leaves one person, unless you count Hezbollah or Iran
Your thoughts?
Phil
The gas attacks were laid firmly and unequivocally at his door, when there was reliable evidence contradicting this, which received scant coverage.
___________________________________
I don't wish to get off the subject of the thread but being as I have followed closely the Syrian conflict since it kicked off in Deraa in 2011 I'd like to have a link or two to this specific 'reliable evidence' and it's source, please?
You of course know that in the recent Russian backed biological & chemical weapons collection from Assad's Syria chlorine gas was not on the list and that since then this chemical has been dropped from helicopters onto residential areas around the country?
AFAIK 'NONE' of the opposition groups have helicopters in active use so that only leaves one person, unless you count Hezbollah or Iran
Your thoughts?
Phil
Two Russian jet's entered Swedish airspace yesterday and were chased off.
Sweden has summoned the Russian ambassador to complain.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/swed...
Why can't Russia just be a normal country?
Sweden has summoned the Russian ambassador to complain.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/swed...
Why can't Russia just be a normal country?
Transmitter Man said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
The gas attacks were laid firmly and unequivocally at his door, when there was reliable evidence contradicting this, which received scant coverage.
___________________________________
I don't wish to get off the subject of the thread but being as I have followed closely the Syrian conflict since it kicked off in Deraa in 2011 I'd like to have a link or two to this specific 'reliable evidence' and it's source, please?___________________________________
You of course know that in the recent Russian backed biological & chemical weapons collection from Assad's Syria chlorine gas was not on the list and that since then this chemical has been dropped from helicopters onto residential areas around the country?
AFAIK 'NONE' of the opposition groups have helicopters in active use so that only leaves one person, unless you count Hezbollah or Iran
Your thoughts?
Phil
You are strongly biased towards Assad, considering our previous discussions. The considered alternatives to him are no better, if not substantially worse, much like the Libyan "bomb for peace" initiative and outcome.
I take the view better the devil you know, than the devil you don't in this case. The Iraqis might just take a similar view considering the unending turmoil they have suffered since the last invasion.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 22 September 09:16
furrywoolyhatuk said:
Yet when Chinese jets intercept American aircraft (also in international airspace) the US gets all upset about it.Rovinghawk said:
furrywoolyhatuk said:
Yet when Chinese jets intercept American aircraft (also in international airspace) the US gets all upset about it.China declared it's ADIZ unilaterally without consulting it's neighbors, indeed even overlapping their own ADIZ boundaries in some areas.
So it's a bit of a grey area, there's nothing to stop any country declaring an ADIZ, although it's important to remember it remains international airspace and is not sovereign territory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Defense_Identific...
Seems they're giving up as half their gear has been destroyed and if they try to upscale, Russia just adds more.
His words, of course. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/u...
His words, of course. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/u...
Transmitter Man said:
He will probably argue that they are all fascists or something equally absurd.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff