War with Russia

[AA999]

Liokault said:

Total rubbish!

When was the last time RT ran a story that was was uncomfortable for Putin?

The sheer scale of the overt lies that RT presents as fact in no way compares to most western press.

Happen to watch a program called SohpieCo or something like that, she was interviewing an ex-NATO official and he was most definitely not 'Russia friendly'.
Also happened to watch something called CrossTalk where they had some anti-russian opinionated people discussion various issues.

So I think I'd have to disagree with your blunt assertion that they do not provide at least some measure of balance.


Propaganda is a very interesting subject, its not only how events are reported it is also which events are chosen to be reported and which are left to go 'under the carpet'..... while I do agree that RT seems to report more bluntly on certain issues, by the same degree I would hazard a guess that many western media chose to not report on issues that place a negative light on western activities/interests.

Like has been said many times, each side is as bad as the other, the term 'information wars' is a high priority for many media outlets.

[skyrover]

AA999 said:

Like has been said many times, each side is as bad as the other, the term 'information wars' is a high priority for many media outlets.

No each side is not as bad as the other.

There is a difference between omission and outright fabrication.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

skyrover said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

I love your delusion, he loses his job for exposing world changing lies, is hounded by the government and bowed into silence, the hard questions he asked are forgotten, until things start going wrong with the adventure years later. Oh never mind that, well done free press.

He went on to bring down Ken Livingstone and is currently doing very well for himself as a freelance journalist and cycling commissioner for London. There's no great conspiracy to crush him.

QuantumTokoloshi said:

I am no supporter of RT, and recognise the intrinsic bias they portray. I am also well aware of the limitations of the western "free press" you hold so much faith in. One propagandist is no better than another.

Again, you are confusing "bias" with "propaganda".

Let me know when RT contradicts the Kremlin.

I will not be able to change your mind, and visa versa.

Please watch the documentary I posted a few entries back, to provide a evidence based argument, from John Pilger, a respected investigative journalist on this matter.

Propaganda is not bias, but bias is in this case, is delivered by the propaganda.

Let us look at a recent example, Syria and Asaad. We were inundated with stories about the terror of the Asaad regime, from all the mainstream media voices beating the drums of war. The gas attacks were laid firmly and unequivocally at his door, when there was reliable evidence contradicting this, which received scant coverage.

The glorification of the "freedom fighter" (note: not terrorist) struggling against the Syrian Regime (note: not government), the glorious "resistance" were all "the good guys". The continual message ensured Asaad was evil incarnate. No mention of Al Nusra, Al Qaeda and then lately ISIS, that did not fit the agenda. We need to arm them, train them, then provide air support for them. Libya No. 2 if you will.

We now know that this black and white picture is totally false, but not from the mainstream media sources. It took alternate news sources to start moderating those messages, to see the complexity of the situation with yet another Middle Eastern country about to be bombed for peace.

As an aside, it is funny how there has now been found a way to bomb Syria. Enter ISIS, the new evil incarnate, and the result, Syria will experience high explosive freedom, and some of those will no doubt be targeted at Asaad and Co. Convenient that, took longer, thanks to that whole temporary democratic hiatus, but same result in the end.

The war with Eurasia continues. Peace is war.

Bias via propaganda, the great game is played by both sides.

[toppstuff]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Stuff

I don't buy it.

Pilger is well known polemicist, but he sometimes suffers from confirmation bias. He sees what he wants to see. Everything to him seems to be observed through a lens. Everything to him is about US hegemony. According to Pilger, Everything is Always Our Fault.

Taking RT and the Russian media and somehow even pretending they can be compared with the West is far too much of a reach. The US media can be partisan ( the BBC less so ) but both are beacons of truth compared to Russian media.

Western media is generally reflective of the simple fact that governments and politicians in the West have a short shelf life - every 5 years or so they get changed and so the effects of their interference ( if or where there is any ) are short-lived. Russia is not a proper democracy, so consequently their media don't have to worry about being accountable to different leaders who change every few years.

In short, IMO you are wrong to weight Russian propaganda and Western media in the same way. For proof of this - try and find a Pilger-like figure on the Russian side who is still free to offer his opinions. There aren't any. They are either muzzled or imprisoned. Or killed.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

toppstuff said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Stuff

additional stuff

Likewise, discounting Pilger as a simple US hegemony town crier, does not mean it is does not have a valid basis.

Being paranoid does not mean people are not following you.

I disagree with your view, but that does not mean it is wrong, nor mine.

[toppstuff]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

toppstuff said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Stuff

additional stuff

Likewise, discounting Pilger as a simple US hegemony town crier, does not mean it is does not have a valid basis.

Being paranoid does not mean people are not following you.

I disagree with your view, but that does not mean it is wrong, nor mine.

I think the simple fact that it is easy to find criticism of US and UK foreign policy from within its own media, but very difficult indeed to find critical analysis of Putin's actions from within the Russian media, tells us all that we need to know.

If you can find a critical polemic on Russian foreign policy written from within Russia, please do send me a link.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

toppstuff said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

toppstuff said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Stuff

additional stuff

Likewise, discounting Pilger as a simple US hegemony town crier, does not mean it is does not have a valid basis.

Being paranoid does not mean people are not following you.

I disagree with your view, but that does not mean it is wrong, nor mine.

I think the simple fact that it is easy to find criticism of US and UK foreign policy from within its own media, but very difficult indeed to find critical analysis of Putin's actions from within the Russian media, tells us all that we need to know.

If you can find a critical polemic on Russian foreign policy written from within Russia, please do send me a link.

I would happily do that, but seeing as my Russian is non existent, it may not be feasible.

These Russian investigative journalists might be a starting point.

http://www.icij.org/journalists/yevgenia-albats

http://www.icij.org/journalists/roman-anin

http://www.icij.org/journalists/roman-shleynov

They all seem to have taken on various parts of the Russian state, including corruption at the Sochi games, which probably was one of the easier assignments. Notice not mainstream media, but alternative sources, same counts for the UK or USA.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 19th September 18:32

[Transmitter Man]

[quote=QuantumTokoloshi]

The gas attacks were laid firmly and unequivocally at his door, when there was reliable evidence contradicting this, which received scant coverage.
___________________________________

I don't wish to get off the subject of the thread but being as I have followed closely the Syrian conflict since it kicked off in Deraa in 2011 I'd like to have a link or two to this specific 'reliable evidence' and it's source, please?

You of course know that in the recent Russian backed biological & chemical weapons collection from Assad's Syria chlorine gas was not on the list and that since then this chemical has been dropped from helicopters onto residential areas around the country?

AFAIK 'NONE' of the opposition groups have helicopters in active use so that only leaves one person, unless you count Hezbollah or Iran

Your thoughts?

Phil

[furrywoolyhatuk]

Russian jets intercepted of Alaska:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-29288277

[hidetheelephants]

A pair of Bears were intercepted by Typhoons out of Lossiemouth this month.

[skyrover]

Two Russian jet's entered Swedish airspace yesterday and were chased off.

Sweden has summoned the Russian ambassador to complain.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/swed...

Why can't Russia just be a normal country?

[AreOut]

their GPS broke again

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Transmitter Man said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

The gas attacks were laid firmly and unequivocally at his door, when there was reliable evidence contradicting this, which received scant coverage.
___________________________________

I don't wish to get off the subject of the thread but being as I have followed closely the Syrian conflict since it kicked off in Deraa in 2011 I'd like to have a link or two to this specific 'reliable evidence' and it's source, please?

You of course know that in the recent Russian backed biological & chemical weapons collection from Assad's Syria chlorine gas was not on the list and that since then this chemical has been dropped from helicopters onto residential areas around the country?

AFAIK 'NONE' of the opposition groups have helicopters in active use so that only leaves one person, unless you count Hezbollah or Iran

Your thoughts?

Phil

I would not be surprised to find the chlorine gas being used by Assad. I doubt that the first usage of Sarin gas was an Assad sponsored act. There is volumes of material available on this, please avail yourself of google bing etc. for further info.

You are strongly biased towards Assad, considering our previous discussions. The considered alternatives to him are no better, if not substantially worse, much like the Libyan "bomb for peace" initiative and outcome.

I take the view better the devil you know, than the devil you don't in this case. The Iraqis might just take a similar view considering the unending turmoil they have suffered since the last invasion.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 22 September 09:16

[Rovinghawk]

furrywoolyhatuk said:

Russian jets intercepted of Alaska:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-29288277

Yet when Chinese jets intercept American aircraft (also in international airspace) the US gets all upset about it.

[skyrover]

Rovinghawk said:

furrywoolyhatuk said:

Russian jets intercepted of Alaska:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-29288277

Yet when Chinese jets intercept American aircraft (also in international airspace) the US gets all upset about it.

Yes there is a certain degree of hypocrisy here, however in the USA's defense, it's ADIZ was set up after WWII due to the attack on pearl harbour by the Japanese and is internationally recognized.

China declared it's ADIZ unilaterally without consulting it's neighbors, indeed even overlapping their own ADIZ boundaries in some areas.

So it's a bit of a grey area, there's nothing to stop any country declaring an ADIZ, although it's important to remember it remains international airspace and is not sovereign territory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Defense_Identific...

[Snoggledog]

Couple of days old, but might be good fuel for the (XJ) fire linky

[hidetheelephants]

Snoggledog said:

Couple of days old, but might be good fuel for the (XJ) fire linky

The Poles could kick Russia's western command up and down the street, even without the rest of NATO holding their coat.

[Transmitter Man]

Quantum,

Please can you spin this for us:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29300213

Phil

[Asterix]

Seems they're giving up as half their gear has been destroyed and if they try to upscale, Russia just adds more.

His words, of course. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/u...

[toppstuff]

Transmitter Man said:

Quantum,

Please can you spin this for us:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29300213

Phil

He will probably argue that they are all fascists or something equally absurd.