War with Russia
Discussion
scherzkeks said:
Let's fill in the gaps. Poroshenko was "elected" via a vote that was highly underrepresentative, as most of the South and East were unable to vote.
Because that part of Ukraine was occupied by Russian troops and Russian-backed "rebels" who would not allow the vote to take place. Dear Lord, even by your low standards, that is a shameless manipulation of the facts.
scherzkeks said:
Of course they aren't. But you must view this in the proper light: the US and some of its proxies want war, which is why the current propaganda seems so desperate in Anglo media outlets. Most of what I've read in the big German papers, for example, has been more balanced so far. My favorite PH headline to date was the one about Putin possibly seeking to take over Eastern Europe. 
It's Red ALert2:Yuri's Revenge, all over again! Interview with Russian soldier sent to Ukraine
Novaya Gazeta said:
Severely Injured Russian Soldier Describes Deployment To Ukraine
Novaya Gazeta's Yelena Kostyuchenko has published a revelatory interview today with Dorzhi Batomunkuev, a Russian soldier who is being treated in a Donetsk hospital for severe burns sustained in a tank battle near Debaltsevo.
In the interview, Batomunkuev, aged 20, describes his deployment to Ukraine in extensive detail, providing perhaps the best glimpse we have had so far into this story.
Kostyuchenko says Batomunkuev, a gunner in a T-72B tank, suffered horrific burn wounds while he was manning a tank, defending Logvinovo, a village on the highway between Debaltsevo and Artyomovsk.
Logvinovo was captured by Russian-backed forces on February 9. The highway was severed, leaving Debaltsevo supplied only be minor, rural roads, which eventually became too dangerous to traverse under intense artillery fire. The capture of Logvinovo was therefore the act that sealed the fate of Debaltsevo.
Batomunkuev says that his tank was struck by a round fired by a Ukrainian tank during a battle on the evening of February 19, a surprising date for us as this came a day after Ukrainian troops withdrew from Debaltsevo. We have no reports to match against this date.
The soldier sustained severe burns after ammunition went off inside his tank, causing a fire. He was evacuated in an APC and was taken first to Gorlovka, and from there to Donetsk, where he is now in a burns unit in the region's central hospital. He hopes to return to Russia soon.
Batomunkuev makes no secret of his identity. He is a soldier in the 5th independent tank brigade (based in Ulan-Ude). He was conscripted on November 25, 2013 and signed a three-year military service contract (enabling him to be deployed outside his region) on June 2014.
In October last year, with, despite his signing of a service contract, his conscript term due to last another month, Batomunkuev was sent, along with other kontraktniki (contract soldiers, as opposed to conscripts), who had been gathered together from two military units to form a new tank battalion (made up of around 120 men and equipped with 31 tanks), to the Rostov region, bordering Ukraine. Therefore his contract began in October, ahead of schedule.
Batomunkuev told Kostyuchenko that he did not formally resign from the military prior to his deployment to Ukraine, a claim made by some Russian servicemen found in Ukraine. (RBC.ru reported in February that some Russian draftees were pressured into signing contracts after being recruited into the army, with the promise of early release later.)
His commanders were not, he said, explicit with regards to their ultimate destination. However Batomunkuev says that he and his fellow soldiers were aware of what they were doing.
"They told as that we were going on exercises, but we knew where we were going. We all knew where we were going. I had already been attuned, morally and physically, to the fact that we would have to go to Ukraine."
Batomunkuev said that the troops had not been forced to go, with some opting against the mission, both in Ulan-Ude and in Rostov.
Before leaving for Rostov, back in Ulan-Ude, the unit had painted over their tanks, covering numbers and unit markings. All insignia patches were removed when they arrived at their camp. Passports were left at their home base.
The unit disembarked from a troop train in Matveyev Kurgan, close to the Ukrainian border.
We note here that, on Janurary 20, a column of armoured vehicles, amongst them what appeared to be T-80U tanks were filmed moving towards the Ukrainian border, just south of Matveyev Kurgan.
This is clearly an important route for Russian military movements in the area.
The troops were then sent onto a military camp or polygon, which Batomunkuev says was in Kuzminsky, "where there were many such camps" set up.
This matches observations made by The Interpreter and Ukraine@War in January, based on Google Earth satellite photos, taken on October 10, 2014, which show a vast military camp and training area between Kuzminka and Golovinka.
Batomunkuev describes a regular flow of arrivals and departures.
"We all spent the night in the barracks. Before us there had been spetsnaz guys from Khabarovsk, from various towns, purely from the east. One by one, you understand? Every day. Our guys went 5th, the 25th or 27th of October."
Batomunkuev told Kostychenko that the Kantemirovskaya brigade from the Moscow area had arrived at the camp after his unit departed.
Batomunkuev's battalion spent three months training in the Kuzminsky camp, just as had been planned. As the end of their three-month deployment approached, their superiors told them that they would soon return to Ulan-Ude. There was no mention of heading to Ukraine from Colonel General Sergei Surovikin, the commander of the Russian Eastern Military District, who greeted Batomunkuev's tank company at the camp before the end of the year.
With the Kantemirovskaya troops already arriving, Batomunkuev's unit was told they would be heading home by rail and plane from Rostov to Ulan-Ude.
However on February 8, with the battle to encircle Debaltsevo approaching its climax, they were given the order to man their tanks and move out.
On leaving the camp, they were told to hand over mobile phones and documentation. It appears the Russian military is attempting to clamp down on potentially revealing photos and reports appearing on social media, or for bodies to be found with identifiable documents.
After waiting in the woods for a while, they received the order to move west. Batomunkuev says that, while they all knew what was happening, he didn't realise that he was in Ukraine itself until reaching Donetsk.
The battalion was divided into three companies, each with 10 tanks, 3 BMPs, a medical MT-LB and 5 Ural trucks carrying ammunition (a familiar configuration matching many videos over the last months showing tank movement through the Donbass). Infantry were also sent from Ulan-Ude, bringing the total number of personnel to around 300.
Batomunkuev says that the majority of the troops from Ulan-Ude were Buryats, causing them to stand out from the locals.
During the battle for Debaltsevo, there were several reports of Buryat fighters, with one soldier, claimed by some to be Buryat, seen raising the 'Novorossiya' flag over the town after its fall.
Peter Leonard, a reporter for the Associated Pressm encountered another soldier from Russia's far east manning a tank in Uglegorsk (Vuhlehirsk), near Debaltsevo on February 18.
There is far more to this interview that The Interpreter intends to translate in due time, including details on the lack of shared operational command between the Russians and their separatist allies, or the surprising note from Batomunkuev that his unit was told that around 70% of the population Makeyevka, Donetsk's large, eastern suburb, was regarded as pro-Ukrainian.
http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-live-day-378...Novaya Gazeta's Yelena Kostyuchenko has published a revelatory interview today with Dorzhi Batomunkuev, a Russian soldier who is being treated in a Donetsk hospital for severe burns sustained in a tank battle near Debaltsevo.
In the interview, Batomunkuev, aged 20, describes his deployment to Ukraine in extensive detail, providing perhaps the best glimpse we have had so far into this story.
Kostyuchenko says Batomunkuev, a gunner in a T-72B tank, suffered horrific burn wounds while he was manning a tank, defending Logvinovo, a village on the highway between Debaltsevo and Artyomovsk.
Logvinovo was captured by Russian-backed forces on February 9. The highway was severed, leaving Debaltsevo supplied only be minor, rural roads, which eventually became too dangerous to traverse under intense artillery fire. The capture of Logvinovo was therefore the act that sealed the fate of Debaltsevo.
Batomunkuev says that his tank was struck by a round fired by a Ukrainian tank during a battle on the evening of February 19, a surprising date for us as this came a day after Ukrainian troops withdrew from Debaltsevo. We have no reports to match against this date.
The soldier sustained severe burns after ammunition went off inside his tank, causing a fire. He was evacuated in an APC and was taken first to Gorlovka, and from there to Donetsk, where he is now in a burns unit in the region's central hospital. He hopes to return to Russia soon.
Batomunkuev makes no secret of his identity. He is a soldier in the 5th independent tank brigade (based in Ulan-Ude). He was conscripted on November 25, 2013 and signed a three-year military service contract (enabling him to be deployed outside his region) on June 2014.
In October last year, with, despite his signing of a service contract, his conscript term due to last another month, Batomunkuev was sent, along with other kontraktniki (contract soldiers, as opposed to conscripts), who had been gathered together from two military units to form a new tank battalion (made up of around 120 men and equipped with 31 tanks), to the Rostov region, bordering Ukraine. Therefore his contract began in October, ahead of schedule.
Batomunkuev told Kostyuchenko that he did not formally resign from the military prior to his deployment to Ukraine, a claim made by some Russian servicemen found in Ukraine. (RBC.ru reported in February that some Russian draftees were pressured into signing contracts after being recruited into the army, with the promise of early release later.)
His commanders were not, he said, explicit with regards to their ultimate destination. However Batomunkuev says that he and his fellow soldiers were aware of what they were doing.
"They told as that we were going on exercises, but we knew where we were going. We all knew where we were going. I had already been attuned, morally and physically, to the fact that we would have to go to Ukraine."
Batomunkuev said that the troops had not been forced to go, with some opting against the mission, both in Ulan-Ude and in Rostov.
Before leaving for Rostov, back in Ulan-Ude, the unit had painted over their tanks, covering numbers and unit markings. All insignia patches were removed when they arrived at their camp. Passports were left at their home base.
The unit disembarked from a troop train in Matveyev Kurgan, close to the Ukrainian border.
We note here that, on Janurary 20, a column of armoured vehicles, amongst them what appeared to be T-80U tanks were filmed moving towards the Ukrainian border, just south of Matveyev Kurgan.
This is clearly an important route for Russian military movements in the area.
The troops were then sent onto a military camp or polygon, which Batomunkuev says was in Kuzminsky, "where there were many such camps" set up.
This matches observations made by The Interpreter and Ukraine@War in January, based on Google Earth satellite photos, taken on October 10, 2014, which show a vast military camp and training area between Kuzminka and Golovinka.
Batomunkuev describes a regular flow of arrivals and departures.
"We all spent the night in the barracks. Before us there had been spetsnaz guys from Khabarovsk, from various towns, purely from the east. One by one, you understand? Every day. Our guys went 5th, the 25th or 27th of October."
Batomunkuev told Kostychenko that the Kantemirovskaya brigade from the Moscow area had arrived at the camp after his unit departed.
Batomunkuev's battalion spent three months training in the Kuzminsky camp, just as had been planned. As the end of their three-month deployment approached, their superiors told them that they would soon return to Ulan-Ude. There was no mention of heading to Ukraine from Colonel General Sergei Surovikin, the commander of the Russian Eastern Military District, who greeted Batomunkuev's tank company at the camp before the end of the year.
With the Kantemirovskaya troops already arriving, Batomunkuev's unit was told they would be heading home by rail and plane from Rostov to Ulan-Ude.
However on February 8, with the battle to encircle Debaltsevo approaching its climax, they were given the order to man their tanks and move out.
On leaving the camp, they were told to hand over mobile phones and documentation. It appears the Russian military is attempting to clamp down on potentially revealing photos and reports appearing on social media, or for bodies to be found with identifiable documents.
After waiting in the woods for a while, they received the order to move west. Batomunkuev says that, while they all knew what was happening, he didn't realise that he was in Ukraine itself until reaching Donetsk.
The battalion was divided into three companies, each with 10 tanks, 3 BMPs, a medical MT-LB and 5 Ural trucks carrying ammunition (a familiar configuration matching many videos over the last months showing tank movement through the Donbass). Infantry were also sent from Ulan-Ude, bringing the total number of personnel to around 300.
Batomunkuev says that the majority of the troops from Ulan-Ude were Buryats, causing them to stand out from the locals.
During the battle for Debaltsevo, there were several reports of Buryat fighters, with one soldier, claimed by some to be Buryat, seen raising the 'Novorossiya' flag over the town after its fall.
Peter Leonard, a reporter for the Associated Pressm encountered another soldier from Russia's far east manning a tank in Uglegorsk (Vuhlehirsk), near Debaltsevo on February 18.
There is far more to this interview that The Interpreter intends to translate in due time, including details on the lack of shared operational command between the Russians and their separatist allies, or the surprising note from Batomunkuev that his unit was told that around 70% of the population Makeyevka, Donetsk's large, eastern suburb, was regarded as pro-Ukrainian.
AreOut said:
J4CKO said:
So, what would happen if Putin launched a nuclear missile ?
The world would cease to exist as we know it.If Putin launched a nuclear missile at, say, Brussels, is NATO really going to have a meeting and decide the best thing to do is to start WWIII over it?
Edited by Boris Morris on Monday 2nd March 23:46
both soviet&american nuclear doctrine don't recognize launching of a single missile, and even if it's launched there would be at least 10 launched back as a retaliation(because if you don't react your opponent would perceive you as weak) and all the bets are off then
now if it was tactical artillery nuke(very small yield) used on ukrainian frontline it might be another thing but then Russia would be condemned by the whole world while achieving nothing they couldn't with their conventional weapons
in other words sleep well, there is only a marginal chance nukes will be used in our lifetime
now if it was tactical artillery nuke(very small yield) used on ukrainian frontline it might be another thing but then Russia would be condemned by the whole world while achieving nothing they couldn't with their conventional weapons
in other words sleep well, there is only a marginal chance nukes will be used in our lifetime
Boris Morris said:
AreOut said:
J4CKO said:
So, what would happen if Putin launched a nuclear missile ?
The world would cease to exist as we know it.If Putin launched a nuclear missile at, say, Brussels, is NATO really going to have a meeting and decide the best thing to do is to start WWIII over it?
Edited by Boris Morris on Monday 2nd March 23:46
AreOut said:
both soviet&american nuclear doctrine don't recognize launching of a single missile, and even if it's launched there would be at least 10 launched back as a retaliation(because if you don't react your opponent would perceive you as weak) and all the bets are off then
now if it was tactical artillery nuke(very small yield) used on ukrainian frontline it might be another thing but then Russia would be condemned by the whole world while achieving nothing they couldn't with their conventional weapons
[b]in other words sleep well, there is only a marginal chance nukes will be used in our lifetime
[/b]now if it was tactical artillery nuke(very small yield) used on ukrainian frontline it might be another thing but then Russia would be condemned by the whole world while achieving nothing they couldn't with their conventional weapons
[b]in other words sleep well, there is only a marginal chance nukes will be used in our lifetime
Don't be so sure, Singapore is on 24 hr readiness because they see NK as a big threat, their new leader is seen as young, headstrong and without the past connection to China, basically he doesn't give a toss what the world thinks, he also has ICBM capability that can reach 50% of the globe. That part of Asia thinks that if he decides that his country has got nothing left to lose then.......
2013BRM]/b said:
Don't be so sure, Singapore is on 24 hr readiness because they see NK as a big threat, their new leader is seen as young, headstrong and without the past connection to China, basically he doesn't give a toss what the world thinks, he also has ICBM capability that can reach 50% of the globe.
err he doesn't, and he most probably doesn't have the warhead that could fit the ICBM as wellhe is the threat only to South Korea because of long range artillery and bunch of chemical weapons
2013BRM said:
AreOut said:
both soviet&american nuclear doctrine don't recognize launching of a single missile, and even if it's launched there would be at least 10 launched back as a retaliation(because if you don't react your opponent would perceive you as weak) and all the bets are off then
now if it was tactical artillery nuke(very small yield) used on ukrainian frontline it might be another thing but then Russia would be condemned by the whole world while achieving nothing they couldn't with their conventional weapons
[b]in other words sleep well, there is only a marginal chance nukes will be used in our lifetime
[/b]now if it was tactical artillery nuke(very small yield) used on ukrainian frontline it might be another thing but then Russia would be condemned by the whole world while achieving nothing they couldn't with their conventional weapons
[b]in other words sleep well, there is only a marginal chance nukes will be used in our lifetime
Don't be so sure, Singapore is on 24 hr readiness because they see NK as a big threat, their new leader is seen as young, headstrong and without the past connection to China, basically he doesn't give a toss what the world thinks, he also has ICBM capability that can reach 50% of the globe. That part of Asia thinks that if he decides that his country has got nothing left to lose then.......
MAD = Mutely Assured Destruction, any side that launches is met with an immediate full scale retaliatory launch that would equate to the end of life as we know it on this planet, no questions asked, no meetings held to discuss it.
In the case of Putin, its all about power and securing it for him and his buddies, he keeps his seat in the big office as long as his cronies are kept happy and disgustingly wealthy. Pressing the big button would somewhat end that party, as with the above chap, he is head strong, greedy, power hungry etc etc all of these traits though are very good reasons not to destroy the entire planet. He is not insane and if he was or tried to go down this route he would quickly find himself on the end of the bullet that just met his opponent.
Chim said:
2013BRM said:
AreOut said:
both soviet&american nuclear doctrine don't recognize launching of a single missile, and even if it's launched there would be at least 10 launched back as a retaliation(because if you don't react your opponent would perceive you as weak) and all the bets are off then
now if it was tactical artillery nuke(very small yield) used on ukrainian frontline it might be another thing but then Russia would be condemned by the whole world while achieving nothing they couldn't with their conventional weapons
[b]in other words sleep well, there is only a marginal chance nukes will be used in our lifetime
[/b]now if it was tactical artillery nuke(very small yield) used on ukrainian frontline it might be another thing but then Russia would be condemned by the whole world while achieving nothing they couldn't with their conventional weapons
[b]in other words sleep well, there is only a marginal chance nukes will be used in our lifetime
Don't be so sure, Singapore is on 24 hr readiness because they see NK as a big threat, their new leader is seen as young, headstrong and without the past connection to China, basically he doesn't give a toss what the world thinks, he also has ICBM capability that can reach 50% of the globe. That part of Asia thinks that if he decides that his country has got nothing left to lose then.......
MAD = Mutely Assured Destruction, any side that launches is met with an immediate full scale retaliatory launch that would equate to the end of life as we know it on this planet, no questions asked, no meetings held to discuss it.
In the case of Putin, its all about power and securing it for him and his buddies, he keeps his seat in the big office as long as his cronies are kept happy and disgustingly wealthy. Pressing the big button would somewhat end that party, as with the above chap, he is head strong, greedy, power hungry etc etc all of these traits though are very good reasons not to destroy the entire planet. He is not insane and if he was or tried to go down this route he would quickly find himself on the end of the bullet that just met his opponent.
Bluebarge said:
scherzkeks said:
Let's fill in the gaps. Poroshenko was "elected" via a vote that was highly underrepresentative, as most of the South and East were unable to vote.
Dear Lord, even by your low standards, that is a shameless manipulation of the facts.superkartracer said:
good, so he can pull Russia out of economic crisis all on his own 
All the Nemtsov assassination theories neatly arranged.
I will be quite disappointed if it turns out to be a mundane reason, this James Bond Spy thriller reality is better than anything Frederick Forsyth could come up with.
As 1000s Mourn At Nemtsov's Funeral, Seven Main Conspiracy Theories Emerge
I will be quite disappointed if it turns out to be a mundane reason, this James Bond Spy thriller reality is better than anything Frederick Forsyth could come up with.
As 1000s Mourn At Nemtsov's Funeral, Seven Main Conspiracy Theories Emerge
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