War with Russia

[Halb]

scherzkeks said:

There is also this:

http://www.salon.com/2015/05/19/john_kerry_admits_...

As predicted in an old thread.

Most interesting read.

[isee]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

That is a worthwhile read, and yes, it does look like sanity has prevailed.

First time I read anything linked int his thread from start to finish.

Perhaps the more militant of members of this thread can also at least implicitly admit the possibility that they may have been a little too black and white about this conflict now.

[Liokault]

isee said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

That is a worthwhile read, and yes, it does look like sanity has prevailed.

First time I read anything linked int his thread from start to finish.

Perhaps the more militant of members of this thread can also at least implicitly admit the possibility that they may have been a little too black and white about this conflict now.

Hold on!


Didn't you come in to this thread on a "don't believe everything you read" ticket?

Then you endorse this massively spun opinion piece as some sort of definitive explanation on Ukraine.

You can tell that its questionable at best due to the normal stooges that fully endorse its veracity, whilst at the same time denying that Ukraine found any Russian special forces in its territory.

[isee]

Liokault said:

Hold on!


Didn't you come in to this thread on a "don't believe everything you read" ticket?

Then you endorse this massively spun opinion piece as some sort of definitive explanation on Ukraine.

You can tell that its questionable at best due to the normal stooges that fully endorse its veracity, whilst at the same time denying that Ukraine found any Russian special forces in its territory.

I came to this thread specifically to say that nobody in this conflict is blameless or acted with Ukrainians' (Not USA, not Europe, not Russia and definitely not the Ukrainian government) interest in mind, first and foremost. I have seen enough vilifying Russia whilst absolving self in the West, which is why I appear so pro-Russian here. I am also active on a couple of comment sections in popular Russian media publications where I usually point out the fallacy of "Russia stronk!" commentators who blame the west for everything and think Russia is out there to save "our Slavic brothers".

I long said that I don't care who "wins" this conflict, I only want for someone to win sooner rather than later so that we can get back to dialogue, which is why I found this opinion piece very relevant. You may be right that it is spun, but in my opinion it is far from baseless and Kerry coming to talk to Hitler Putin who is the president of a ruined country whose economy is in tatters Russia, is very telling.

[skyrover]

Mr Whippy said:

skyrover said:

Ukraine claims to have captured some Russian special forces operating in Donbas.

https://news.vice.com/article/ukraine-releases-vid...

A video now constitutes proof

Well he Russians seem to believe them

http://rt.com/news/259817-kiev-detention-torture-r...

Of course the Russian's are claiming "ex-special forces"

Perhaps a fair exchange can be arranged for Nadiya Savchenko against these two spooks?

[isee]

Saw some twitter pic alleging UA shot down a Russian (an exclusively Russian at that) drone over Ukraine. Anyone got any more info on that?

Whilst I have no idea what possible reward operating such a machine over Ukraine can outweigh the political and PR risk, the info I saw looked quite convincing.

[Transmitter Man]

Some PH'ers seem to just adore Putin.

I really don't know why.

Russia warns Google, Facebook & Twitter: Hand over bloggers or be banned

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/242921-rus...

Phil

[Liokault]

Hey Scherzkeks, why did you delete your funny post?

Was claiming that USA is the only aggressor in Ukraine, and that Russia is totally just being friendly, and claiming that somehow Russia is winning, a propaganda push too far, even for you

[skyrover]

I got a good chuckle out of it, he's worth keeping around for entertainment value

Interestingly those Russian special forces have now confessed to the OSCE.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32840502

[Mr Whippy]

skyrover said:

Mr Whippy said:

skyrover said:

Ukraine claims to have captured some Russian special forces operating in Donbas.

https://news.vice.com/article/ukraine-releases-vid...

A video now constitutes proof

Well he Russians seem to believe them

http://rt.com/news/259817-kiev-detention-torture-r...

Of course the Russian's are claiming "ex-special forces"

Perhaps a fair exchange can be arranged for Nadiya Savchenko against these two spooks?

I don't know any more.

I don't trust any 'news' these days... of course there may be truth in it, but to form any strong opinion would take me weeks of my own personal time to form an opinion I could deem as unbiased as possible.

Now if there were an independent news agency that did in-depth work on issues that built up my trust then fine... but since they don't exist any more we're stuck believing one set of liars or another.



But I think for now the USA is probably too concerned over China building islands in the South China Sea.

Ukraine served it's purpose for now. Just like all the other countries the USA involves itself in, it's in turmoil, which is better than being in any other state than completely western aligned.

Dave

[skyrover]

Rumors of a push coming up...

Large Russian convoy of unmarked military equipment spotted heading for the Ukrainian border including heavy MLRS and bridging pontoon vehicles.



Perhaps something timed with the upcoming Greek debt distraction?

.... and a bit more repression on the home front

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/russia-s...

Edited by skyrover on Monday 25th May 09:05

[isee]

Anyone saw the alleged cutting of index fingers off on facebook?
Basically one of the Ukrainian volunteer battalion commanders posted pictures of a Separatist with both his index fingers cut off. I won't link it here, but if I am not mistaken that's a war-crime isn't it?

It looks rather convincing, but after the "hanging of a separatist and his pregnant wife" fake I am afraid it would take me actually being there to believe it now.

Either way, I bet the Ukrainian POWs are very happy about it...

[scherzkeks]

Liokault said:

Hey Scherzkeks, why did you delete your funny post?

Was claiming that USA is the only aggressor in Ukraine

It was deleted, as the point is rather redundant now.

[Liokault]

scherzkeks said:

Liokault said:

Hey Scherzkeks, why did you delete your funny post?

Was claiming that USA is the only aggressor in Ukraine

It was deleted, as the point is rather redundant now.

Because there is no real doubt that Russia is the real aggressor here?

[Liokault]

isee said:

Anyone saw the alleged cutting of index fingers off on facebook?
Basically one of the Ukrainian volunteer battalion commanders posted pictures of a Separatist with both his index fingers cut off. I won't link it here, but if I am not mistaken that's a war-crime isn't it?

It looks rather convincing, but after the "hanging of a separatist and his pregnant wife" fake I am afraid it would take me actually being there to believe it now.

Either way, I bet the Ukrainian POWs are very happy about it...

Wasn't there a report last week, or the week before, with fairly convincing evidence that both sides are committing war crimes?

[isee]

Liokault said:

Wasn't there a report last week, or the week before, with fairly convincing evidence that both sides are committing war crimes?

Does that make the latest photos and all subsequent photos OK, or are you genuinely asking? I haven't seen the report, though have seen some spot reports by OSCE, if that's what you mean. Also just saw this: http://www.plenglish.com/index.php?option=com_cont...

I guess one side has paved the way for more war-crimes nicely...

[skyrover]

Land Mines and cluster bombs most likely, something Ukraine (and Russia) have plenty of.

[Transmitter Man]

isee said:

Does that make the latest photos and all subsequent photos OK, or are you genuinely asking? I haven't seen the report, though have seen some spot reports by OSCE, if that's what you mean. Also just saw this: http://www.plenglish.com/index.php?option=com_cont...

I guess one side has paved the way for more war-crimes nicely...

I stopped reading when it called the current Ukraine government 'ultra right wing'.

You and I know it clearly is not.

It is in fact 'centre of right' which is someway away from 'ultra right' in any language.

Phil

[isee]

Transmitter Man said:

I stopped reading when it called the current Ukraine government 'ultra right wing'.

You and I know it clearly is not.

It is in fact 'centre of right' which is someway away from 'ultra right' in any language.

Phil

True, but if you carried on reading, you would have gotten to the point I was trying to make. Unless of course it's not true?

[Liokault]

isee said:

Transmitter Man said:

I stopped reading when it called the current Ukraine government 'ultra right wing'.

You and I know it clearly is not.

It is in fact 'centre of right' which is someway away from 'ultra right' in any language.

Phil

True, but if you carried on reading, you would have gotten to the point I was trying to make. Unless of course it's not true?

Your siting a change in law to allow people to be held for more than 72 hours! Its a war man, being held for more than 72 hours seems quite reasonable in the circumstances.