Sale Of Goods Act advice requested
Discussion
TroubledSoul said:
The main questions are: If the dealer offered a refund, but you turned it down stating you would prefer the faults rectified instead, does that absolve him in the eyes of the small claims court?
Did he? Because this thread needs reading in a completely different light if he did.On the wheels, there a refurbs and refurbs. Did the dealer specify? Was this a tyres off, fully strip the old paint, fill where necessary and repaint job, or did he just mask up the tyre, and respray the bit you can see?
[devilsadvocate]If he didn't specify, what right do you think you have to the former instead of the latter?[/devilsadvocate]
I can't offer legal advice for you. I'm not qualified and from what I understand it'll come down to what's reasonable wear and tear. Pretty difficult to define on a used car.
So int he PH spirit of refusing to answer the question asked... Have you tried negotiating? Perhaps offer to accept a settlement for parts only (at the dealer's trade prices for the parts you've not already fitted). That's the carrot. As to the question of whether or not you could use recovery of parts + time via the small claims court as a stick or not, I'm not able to give you an answer.
[devilsadvocate]If he didn't specify, what right do you think you have to the former instead of the latter?[/devilsadvocate]
I can't offer legal advice for you. I'm not qualified and from what I understand it'll come down to what's reasonable wear and tear. Pretty difficult to define on a used car.
So int he PH spirit of refusing to answer the question asked... Have you tried negotiating? Perhaps offer to accept a settlement for parts only (at the dealer's trade prices for the parts you've not already fitted). That's the carrot. As to the question of whether or not you could use recovery of parts + time via the small claims court as a stick or not, I'm not able to give you an answer.
t and as such wanted to buy the car back to retail it to someone else that wouldn't be quite so picky.The supplying dealer has offered a complete refund, and you come back on here asking if that waives their rights and leaves you free to take them to court under the sales of goods act.
At what point do you think that you are being fair or reasonable?
This may be wrong but I utterly feel for the dealer on this one....If he fixes the faults you found, you will no doubt be back in a few weeks/months with another little list of fault codes for him to sort - so he thinks "You know, it's just not worth it - let's give the chap his money back and we'll all move on" but no, that's not good enough.
I give up.
At what point do you think that you are being fair or reasonable?
This may be wrong but I utterly feel for the dealer on this one....If he fixes the faults you found, you will no doubt be back in a few weeks/months with another little list of fault codes for him to sort - so he thinks "You know, it's just not worth it - let's give the chap his money back and we'll all move on" but no, that's not good enough.
I give up.
mikeveal said:
Hmmn, I think if the dealer's offered to refund, he's met his legal requirements.
You appear to have frittered away your bargaining chips.
I would agree with this. You appear to have frittered away your bargaining chips.
If it went to a legal situation, the dealer always has the Ace that he offered you a full refund, which you refused.
Ergo, you have rejected the opportunity to reject the car.
With regard to things you have repaired yourself, again I think you'd be out of luck.
If one has a problem with the car, one has to give the vendor reasonable chance to rectify it at their own cost (contrary to popular belief, I don't believe there is a defined number placed on the amount of attempts constituting "reasonable")
You did not offer the vendor chance to rectify these faults in that you repaired them yourself.
Finally, you should expect things to work on a £10k car, yes, and I do remember your original thread on this.
However, I honestly feel that you are confusing SOGA issues with warranty issues. Get your warranty book out and study that.
TroubledSoul said:
In this case, I spent £10k on an 87k, 8 year old diesel 5 Series BMW. At 8 years old, it's reasonable to expect wear and tear, but surely on a £10k car it shouldn't need the following:
A new MAF sensor
A new glow plug controller
A new engine thermostat
A new EGR thermostat
A wheel refurb, despite the dealer insisting it had one just before sale
...The main questions are: If the dealer offered a refund, but you turned it down stating you would prefer the faults rectified instead, does that absolve him in the eyes of the small claims court?
It doesn't make you look that great, that's the thing.A new MAF sensor
A new glow plug controller
A new engine thermostat
A new EGR thermostat
A wheel refurb, despite the dealer insisting it had one just before sale
...The main questions are: If the dealer offered a refund, but you turned it down stating you would prefer the faults rectified instead, does that absolve him in the eyes of the small claims court?
It is difficult to argue on the one hand that you bought a lemon, yet reject the offer of a refund.
Effectively, what you are asking for seems to be owning an 8 year old car with 87k on it, yet have the dealer put everything right for 6 months as if it had a warranty like a brand new car.
Buying second hand is a double edged sword. Of course you make the saving on the basis that some other chump is paying for the depreciation. But, they are also paying for the warranty and the benefit of not having worn parts.
If you want to make that saving, you have to factor in that the car is worn. You can mitigate some of that cost by purchasing a warranty, but you can't have it all ways round.
Look at it from the dealer's perspective...
He's offered a refund and that's all he's required to do by law (happy to be corrected on this.)
You then indicate that you don't want the refund and you start fixing the car yourself.
Dealer knows you can't reclaim the cash for the parts from him as he's fulfilled his statutory obligations by offering a refund. He also knows that you're prepared to pay for the parts and do the work to fix the car...
So what exactly is the dealers motive for giving you money for the parts?
Yeah, I know ^^^ this ^^^ might not be what you want to hear.
He's offered a refund and that's all he's required to do by law (happy to be corrected on this.)
You then indicate that you don't want the refund and you start fixing the car yourself.
Dealer knows you can't reclaim the cash for the parts from him as he's fulfilled his statutory obligations by offering a refund. He also knows that you're prepared to pay for the parts and do the work to fix the car...
So what exactly is the dealers motive for giving you money for the parts?
Yeah, I know ^^^ this ^^^ might not be what you want to hear.
Edited by mikeveal on Monday 3rd March 17:10
TroubledSoul said:
mikeveal said:
I think you have your answer. Sorry it's not as palatable as you would no doubt like.
While you're probably right, I'm hoping a legal pro will see this and confirm one way or the other for me. If they say I'm out of luck then at least I can stop worrying about it.
This thread is absurd. You bought an old high mileage car, nit picked it, moaned to the dealer who righty spotted that you represented more pain than you were worth and offered you a full refund which you refused. Now, 6 months later you're moaning again and asking if the dealer has "wriggle room". 
TroubledSoul said:
Breadvan72 said:
People blame lawyers for compo culture and general whingeyness, but threads like this suggest that lawyers may not be the only ones to blame.
Nice. I only wanted an explanation of why what they've done is OK, not a character assassination. But this seems a bit more like character suicide than assassination.
You asked for legal advice.
You got advice from a few enthusiastic well-read amateurs and advice from a real professional lawyer too.
Then you complained it wasn't the advice you wanted to hear.
I'm not sure what else you'd expect.
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