Golf Thread 2014 - All Things Golf!

[Rosscow]

Loudy McFatass said:

Plus 4? So that means 4 under scratch?!
Does it still increase in 0.1 increments after zero?

Yeah, basically means he has to shoot -4 to score 36 points!

I'm not sure why he's not done anything with it - but then the likes of McIlroy are probably on plus 10!

[kentlad]

Rosscow said:

I'm not sure why he's not done anything with it - but then the likes of McIlroy are probably on plus 10!

I'm sure i read somewhere that Donald, Rose & Poulter all turned pro when they were playing off plus 4? Mcilroy is playing like a mid teen handicapper who can hit the ball a country mile today

[Rosscow]

Yeah - just watching it now!!

Billy holes a blinder on 16!!

[GTO-3R]

Never thought i'd be thinking what I have lately but i'm contemplating giving the game up for a while. I turned pro in 2003 to try and make my way as a tour player and got as far as the Challenge Tour (turned pro off +1). Things didn't work out for me and I got completely sick of the game and packed it in, in 2006. I didn't touch a club for two years and since then i've not been playing any where near enough. I decided at the start of this year that i was going to make an effort and play more but i've found that i've got no motivation. When I was growing up there was always a goal to aim for, first it was to get in the county boys team, then it was the county first team, then in to the England set up whilst playing in all the major amateur events. After that it was turn pro and go for the dream. I achieved all my goals. There was always something to aim for which kept me motivated but now that is no longer around i'm really struggling.

My swing feels awful. I'm stood over the ball with no confidence and have lost all belief in myself and my game and just feel like I need to give up. Never thought I'd be thinking this at 32.

[Rosscow]

You're the same age as me and have achieved more than I could ever dream of - well done!

But you have to enjoy the game for what it is, and if you can't do that then what's the point?

I presume you have moved on in life and just play for fun now?

[airweaz]

Had my first lesson on saturday morning.

Nice pro at the club too.

Turns out I have a nice swing and rhythm to it, But my right hand dominates the whole thing and causes all the issues with my ball striking.

Reworking my grip and parts of my swing to counter it. Showed improvement in the hour.

Finally having a car that can fit my clubs is a godsend.

[ManFromDelmonte]

My lessons continue tonight, last week we did some basic video analysis of my swing and I got a lot out of it (like I have in other sports where I have had it). I guess I know what a good swing looks like so when I see what I am doing wrong it makes it much easier to fix than when someone just says "you need to shallow your swing and release earlier" or whatever.

Also snagged some new irons and wedges off eBay (Mizuno MP-52) so I am hoping they will help too when they show up.

[JohnSW20]

Strange things happening with my 8 iron!!! I've always worked off the fact I hit my 7 iron around 150 yards 6 iron around 165 yards etc. I've now started hitting my 8 iron between 170 yards and 190 yards!!! I just don't get it; it's getting plenty of height as in I'm hitting it over trees but why all of a sudden am I able to hit the 8 iron these sorts of distance when my 7 iron is only going 150-160 yards. Should I have all my other clubs made to match the length of the 8 iron?

[airweaz]

JohnSW20 said:

Strange things happening with my 8 iron!!! I've always worked off the fact I hit my 7 iron around 150 yards 6 iron around 165 yards etc. I've now started hitting my 8 iron between 170 yards and 190 yards!!! I just don't get it; it's getting plenty of height as in I'm hitting it over trees but why all of a sudden am I able to hit the 8 iron these sorts of distance when my 7 iron is only going 150-160 yards. Should I have all my other clubs made to match the length of the 8 iron?

I find the same with 7 - 9 irons. Just with a varying flight.

[kentlad]

JohnSW20 said:

Strange things happening with my 8 iron!!! I've always worked off the fact I hit my 7 iron around 150 yards 6 iron around 165 yards etc. I've now started hitting my 8 iron between 170 yards and 190 yards!!! I just don't get it; it's getting plenty of height as in I'm hitting it over trees but why all of a sudden am I able to hit the 8 iron these sorts of distance when my 7 iron is only going 150-160 yards. Should I have all my other clubs made to match the length of the 8 iron?

Sounds like you're either delivering too much dynamic loft with your 6 & 7 iron so the ball might have a higher but 'weaker' flight...or you're just more confident with the 8 and swing it harder...one of my friends is the same...hits his 6 iron consistently over 200 yards...but yet his 5 iron will only go 190 & his 7 iron goes around 160/165...i've tried to explain to him he's de-lofting it when he hits it but he won't have any of it.

maybe try to find a pro with a launch monitor and get a lesson on your 'angle of attack numbers' you might find you're delofting you're 8 iron down to the same loft as say a 6 or even a 5 iron (a bit extreme but just an example)

[taaffy]

GTO-3R said:

Never thought i'd be thinking what I have lately but i'm contemplating giving the game up for a while. I turned pro in 2003 to try and make my way as a tour player and got as far as the Challenge Tour (turned pro off +1). Things didn't work out for me and I got completely sick of the game and packed it in, in 2006. I didn't touch a club for two years and since then i've not been playing any where near enough. I decided at the start of this year that i was going to make an effort and play more but i've found that i've got no motivation. When I was growing up there was always a goal to aim for, first it was to get in the county boys team, then it was the county first team, then in to the England set up whilst playing in all the major amateur events. After that it was turn pro and go for the dream. I achieved all my goals. There was always something to aim for which kept me motivated but now that is no longer around i'm really struggling.

My swing feels awful. I'm stood over the ball with no confidence and have lost all belief in myself and my game and just feel like I need to give up. Never thought I'd be thinking this at 32.

I can completely empathise with you here. I too turned pro off +1 and had an unsuccessful time. I went back to the amateur game in 2001 but am glad I did it and now at 47 find myself having not played for about a year now with no desire to play again at the moment. Gave up my membership at the 2010 course at Celtic Manor as I was just not enjoying my golf there.

For the guys asking about the plus 4 player, although that is a hell of an achievement there is a vast gulf between playing off plus 4 on 'normal length' golf courses and stepping out onto 7000yd + tour courses under tour conditions.

[Rosscow]

taaffy said:

For the guys asking about the plus 4 player, although that is a hell of an achievement there is a vast gulf between playing off plus 4 on 'normal length' golf courses and stepping out onto 7000yd + tour courses under tour conditions.

Yeah I fully understand that, although it should be said that this is at Rye which is a very tough links course.

Plus 4 is indeed a hell of an achievement!

[kentlad]

taaffy said:

I can completely empathise with you here. I too turned pro off +1 and had an unsuccessful time. I went back to the amateur game in 2001 but am glad I did it and now at 47 find myself having not played for about a year now with no desire to play again at the moment. Gave up my membership at the 2010 course at Celtic Manor as I was just not enjoying my golf there.

For the guys asking about the plus 4 player, although that is a hell of an achievement there is a vast gulf between playing off plus 4 on 'normal length' golf courses and stepping out onto 7000yd + tour courses under tour conditions.

100% agree with you on the difference between a 7000yd+ course and tour conditions..i was merely suggesting that a player who has that level of ability and understanding of the game..should maybe consider competing at some form of higher level, rather than just their local club comp?

each to their own though..maybe it's just a hobby that's he's really really good at, then again...maybe it's 'wasted' talent..who knows!

[taaffy]

kentlad said:

taaffy said:

I can completely empathise with you here. I too turned pro off +1 and had an unsuccessful time. I went back to the amateur game in 2001 but am glad I did it and now at 47 find myself having not played for about a year now with no desire to play again at the moment. Gave up my membership at the 2010 course at Celtic Manor as I was just not enjoying my golf there.

For the guys asking about the plus 4 player, although that is a hell of an achievement there is a vast gulf between playing off plus 4 on 'normal length' golf courses and stepping out onto 7000yd + tour courses under tour conditions.

100% agree with you on the difference between a 7000yd+ course and tour conditions..i was merely suggesting that a player who has that level of ability and understanding of the game..should maybe consider competing at some form of higher level, rather than just their local club comp?

each to their own though..maybe it's just a hobby that's he's really really good at, then again...maybe it's 'wasted' talent..who knows!

To get to +4 would suggest that he has a talent and a strong work ethic. Some excellent players slip through the net though and have no interest in playing for a living.

[dry664]

taaffy said:

For the guys asking about the plus 4 player, although that is a hell of an achievement there is a vast gulf between playing off plus 4 on 'normal length' golf courses and stepping out onto 7000yd + tour courses under tour conditions.

Not sure I agree with this. Tour courses are never set up as long as advertised, only ever have a few tough pin positions and have greens that are near perfect whilst running at the same speed every week. Tour players also get near perfect practice conditions and have a schedule that follows the sun.
A very good amateur has to practice on crappy greens for 9 months a year and play in all kinds of weather.

In my opinion, any true +4 handicapper that takes their normal game onto the European Tour will comfortably keep their card each year.

[Rosscow]

There's a difference between keeping your tour card and making a living though, surely?

There's a Challenge Tour player at my club (turned pro at plus 5). I don't know how he makes a living. He's won about €19k this year. His travel and expenses must cost more!

[dry664]

Currently 110th place in the European Tour order of merit has won 191k EUR. You would expect nearly anyone with a full card to be able to cover travel expenses with sponsorship.

[Rosscow]

dry664 said:

Currently 110th place in the European Tour order of merit has won 191k EUR. You would expect nearly anyone with a full card to be able to cover travel expenses with sponsorship.

I don't think everyone with a plus 4 handicap would get on the European Tour.

The Challenge Tour is hard enough - which is the example I was using above.

[kentlad]

Rosscow said:

I don't think everyone with a plus 4 handicap would get on the European Tour.

The Challenge Tour is hard enough - which is the example I was using above.

Pretty sure a can of worms has been opened ha! I'd suggest that most +4 handicap players who, if they played a course that was Set up for a Tournament would probably score fairly well...around Par or maybe one or two over or under depending on how they played on the day...add onto that the pressure of huge prize money, crowds following their group and a TV audience, not to mention playing with potentially one of the top 100 players in the world and the percentage of plus handicap golfers that would do well would probably dwindle to around 1 in say 100. Maybe even less than that.

All i know for definite is that i'd love a crack at a 'Proper' European tour venue from competition tees...just to see how my game would cope...

Pretty sure I wouldn't be the only one here to relish that challenge!

[taaffy]

dry664 said:

taaffy said:

For the guys asking about the plus 4 player, although that is a hell of an achievement there is a vast gulf between playing off plus 4 on 'normal length' golf courses and stepping out onto 7000yd + tour courses under tour conditions.

Not sure I agree with this. Tour courses are never set up as long as advertised, only ever have a few tough pin positions and have greens that are near perfect whilst running at the same speed every week. Tour players also get near perfect practice conditions and have a schedule that follows the sun.
A very good amateur has to practice on crappy greens for 9 months a year and play in all kinds of weather.

In my opinion, any true +4 handicapper that takes their normal game onto the European Tour will comfortably keep their card each year.

A plus 4hcp is a plus 4hcp right .... well not exactly.
Depends on where you play and the conditions you play under.
Attaining plus 4 hcp whilst only playing your home track with your buddies is a hell of a lot easier than attaining plus 4 at 20 other courses of differing types and lengths under tournament conditions.

Take me for example.. played a bit of tour golf after turning pro off of plus 1 with a view to getting to european tour. Wasn't good enough and not too proud to admit it.
Now at 47 yrs I'm still playing off 2 although I have not played for a year.
My Home course was the 2010 Ryder cup course at Celtic manor which was always played off the whites at 7100 yds. Plays longer than the yardage as it has some water carries and most of the time has no run on the fairways. Greens true but tricky.

I struggled to play to 2 round there and over the past 3yrs went from scratch to 2.
However when I played any of the local Cardiff or Newport courses a good day was a couple under par and a poor day would be no worse than 3 or 4 over.
So I could easily take my struggling 2 hcap at a tour course and rip it up to a plus hcp around a normal course.

As I was at the 2010 I would invariably get loads of request from friends who are still pro's asking me to take some of their proteges who were thinking of tour school on the course to see how they fared.

Most struggled to break 75 with a few not even breaking 80, and these are players with hcaps of scratch or better.

So you can have a plus 4 guy who only plays his home track with his buddies, knows the course inside out and has no pressure. Take this guy and throw him on a course where everything is different, yardages don't look or feel right and ask him to pay up to a grand for expenses and then see if he still plays to plus 4 with the added pressure.

Alternatively take a plus 4 guy who has played the amateur circuit and possibly walker cup and maybe has studied in the states, his plus 4 would be a strong plus 4 compared to the 1st guy and he might have half a chance, but how many of these guys have tried and failed.

Saying that Poults turned pro off 4 and hasn't done too badly.

If a player has a dream and they can make it through tour school and can finance it then who says they should not do it. They just have to be aware that the standard is exceptionally high and it is expensive just to peg it up.

I would say that a strong plus 4 from a good track record in national events would be my requirement for an aspiring tour player before trying to take on the big boys.

Edited by taaffy on Monday 15th September 18:32