Blue Vixen

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octanetorque

Original Poster:

144 posts

136 months

Monday 31st March 2014
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Dear All,

I'm the guy who recently drove home from Holland in the 1971 Vixen S3.

Hello! smile

The car did not skip a beat the whole way home. Not a bad motorway cruiser either. The drive home was an excellent shake down and I've learnt a lot about her, as I think she's learnt a lot about me. The idea is to eventually replace my 350Z with this as its a bit more civilized and everyone will not try to race me at every opportunity. I'll miss the modern refinements but I'm looking forward to a real driving experience.

The best bit on the drive home was the mass of thumbs up, waves and smiles the car caused. The icing on the cake was being followed by a Ferrari Testarossa boarding the Chunnel - people completely ignored the Ferrari and came to chat with me and admire the car instead. WIN!

The car is presently sitting with my mechanic as it'll need some adjustments for the UK (headlights etc..) we're stumped on the shock absorbers/ spring set up. It's got Spax Coilovers on the rear and what looks like AVO on the front. It looks like its front light (the nose is pointing a little high and the rear is sitting a bit low) but perhaps this is pointing to the springs on the rear being too soft?

I've used Google for the OEM settings for the front and its given me some options - and I've look on John Upham site and that's been helpful. I'm essentially looking for a Fastroad occasional Trackday set-up. I think I've been spoiled by the 350Z, but the Vixen is the same weight as a Caterham so I'd suspect that it has the same comfortable sort of ride? I'd be very grateful for any input.

I also gather one should move to the S3 quad shocks/springs set up? I do not suspect thats its an easy job but should it be a priority?

Thanks,
J

Sonus

292 posts

182 months

Monday 31st March 2014
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Can't help on the shocks as I just bought my Vixen aswell, but congratulations on what looks to be a very nice car smile

Monkeythree

511 posts

228 months

Tuesday 1st April 2014
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Ar5e down, nose up is pretty typical of the Vixen stance. Springs are easy to change, cheap enough and readily available in a myriad of lengths and poundages so you can fairly easily tailor the suspension to suit you driving needs and your preferred look of the car. Changing to the 4 shock set up at the rear can be done in various ways. Some people use 4 springs and 4 dampers (spring rates selected accordingly), some use only 2 springs and 4 dampers. In this case there is usually a debate about whether the coilover unit should be the front unit or the back one. In any case, if you want to go to 4 dampers in any configuration, you need a longer pivot bar. The tricky bit can removing the old one as they have a tendency to sieze into the upright and they are also often bent.

Use the search tool and you should find plenty of old threads debating the rear suspension.

Good luck!

prideaux

4,969 posts

148 months

Tuesday 1st April 2014
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Well done James
Its a fantastic feeling i did exactly the same with my MK2 when i bought it this time last year the journey home like you was fantastic the car gets so many looks and smiles and my Friend Richard had a Grin from ear to ear as he drove her from Germany to the tunnel as we drove over to pick her up in my Tractor?
Congrads and welcome to the forum they are not all bad (mad) on here just most of them hehe
A

Moto

1,230 posts

252 months

Tuesday 1st April 2014
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octanetorque said:
The idea is to eventually replace my 350Z with this as its a bit more civilized
Liking your definition of "civilized" smile

Regards dampers. I've just rebuilt my S3 rear suspension and replaced the 4 Spax (leading 2 only with coils) with 4 x Avo's all with 90lb coils. Prior to rebuild the car felt good, after it feels better again. Whether this is due to the 4 x coil setup or that Avo's working better than the very old Spax, or because I replaced the rubber bushes with Superflex - I can't say. Probably a combination of all.

As already said, you will need the longer pivot bar which means uprights off, so may as well replace bearings, UJ's as well as check integrity of quills and hub flanges (both my hub flanges were bent. So you'll probably end up doing a full rebuild. Cost me £1500 to do it all - Adrian supplied the Avo's & coils and a local guy fitted the bearings & machined solid spacers. The rest is pretty straight forward.

Moto

octanetorque

Original Poster:

144 posts

136 months

Tuesday 1st April 2014
quotequote all
Moto said:
octanetorque said:
The idea is to eventually replace my 350Z with this as its a bit more civilized
Liking your definition of "civilized" smile

Regards dampers. I've just rebuilt my S3 rear suspension and replaced the 4 Spax (leading 2 only with coils) with 4 x Avo's all with 90lb coils. Prior to rebuild the car felt good, after it feels better again. Whether this is due to the 4 x coil setup or that Avo's working better than the very old Spax, or because I replaced the rubber bushes with Superflex - I can't say. Probably a combination of all.

As already said, you will need the longer pivot bar which means uprights off, so may as well replace bearings, UJ's as well as check integrity of quills and hub flanges (both my hub flanges were bent. So you'll probably end up doing a full rebuild. Cost me £1500 to do it all - Adrian supplied the Avo's & coils and a local guy fitted the bearings & machined solid spacers. The rest is pretty straight forward.

Moto
Definitely civilized...takes a bit of fineness and understanding to drive one...least in my humble opinion. Plus there's the added "wow factor" when you mention TVR and 1971 in the same sentence - combine that with being 2 years from 30 people think I'm crazy ss the TVR will be my daily driver/track toy...

On the subject of suspension - I've followed Adrian@'s advice and moved to a four-rear set up adjustable AVOs all round, poly-bushes, and springs. Quills are a new one - I have a feeling I'll be hearing all about that tomorrow - Uprights I've heard have an integral fault and worth replacing - how do we know if they're needed to be replaced?

Rad has gone in for a refurb, had a finger width hole in the bottom - amazing to make it back from Holland. I feel this car and I will get along swimmingly!

Adrian was also saying something about 8000 miles from a set of springs/dampers!?

prideaux

4,969 posts

148 months

Tuesday 1st April 2014
quotequote all
octanetorque said:
Uprights I've heard have an integral fault and worth replacing - how do we know if they're needed to be replaced?

Adrian was also saying something about 8000 miles from a set of springs/dampers!?
Uprights X Ray for cracks i believe
8000 Miles all depends on his Stock levels and turn over could go as low as 2000 hehe
A


octanetorque

Original Poster:

144 posts

136 months

Tuesday 1st April 2014
quotequote all
prideaux said:
Uprights X Ray for cracks i believe
X-Ray! I had no idea I'd entered such a tech savvy clique. Shall I give them to my friend in A&E? Joking aside - any particular specialist? Are they all guaranteed to fail eventually or is it a case by case thing?

prideaux

4,969 posts

148 months

Tuesday 1st April 2014
quotequote all
octanetorque said:
prideaux said:
Uprights X Ray for cracks i believe
X-Ray! I had no idea I'd entered such a tech savvy clique. Shall I give them to my friend in A&E? Joking aside - any particular specialist? Are they all guaranteed to fail eventually or is it a case by case thing?
Pulling down the shutters and getting in the Bomb shelter before answering wink
If there is no visible signs of stress cracks then for road use and occasional track use i would not really worry there are cars out there that have had them from new and still going strong however if you serious about track use i would suggest having uprated ones which some have fitted David Gerald offer these and new bearings fitted plus i believe others who think they can improve on them again will also be doing some at some point Dont hold your breath hehe
A

Moto

1,230 posts

252 months

Tuesday 1st April 2014
quotequote all
Could be wrong but I thought the general thinking for uprights was the original design is OK for up to 150 ish bhp. If that's right then the first question is, what are you planning with the engine.... if anything?

If you're not planning to upgrade the engine significantly then crack testing the uprights is what was recommended to me. It's a simple chemical dye that makes potential failure cracks visible to the eye. The guy who did my machining and pressing did this also as a matter of course.



octanetorque

Original Poster:

144 posts

136 months

Tuesday 1st April 2014
quotequote all
Moto said:
Could be wrong but I thought the general thinking for uprights was the original design is OK for up to 150 ish bhp. If that's right then the first question is, what are you planning with the engine.... if anything?

If you're not planning to upgrade the engine significantly then crack testing the uprights is what was recommended to me.
I'm not going to be droping an LS2/302/Essex/Duratec in there any time soon - the Kent seems revvy enough, and I'm happy going a cosy 60-65mph on the M-ways. The Vixen is agile an glides over poor surfaces - like a caterham. and I like how there's just loads of feel in the steering and chassis. I may consider a trick cam, rebore and a type-9 in the future.

I'll investigate the David Gerald & Exactly options of Uprights and see how big of a smile my bank manager makes... hehe

Grantura MKI

817 posts

157 months

Tuesday 1st April 2014
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Bomb loaded and your addy typed into the GPS.
You may not be able to visually see any cracks, and that may not be the main concern. These castings on early cars is very porus and gets brittle over time. They sometimes tend to fail simply from old age....if you plan on doing serious cornering, high speed runs, etc I would switch them out to be on the safe side. Ask anyone who has ever welded on one to tell you about the material used.
Best,
D.

prideaux

4,969 posts

148 months

Wednesday 2nd April 2014
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Grantura MKI said:
Bomb loaded and your addy typed into the GPS.
You may not be able to visually see any cracks, and that may not be the main concern. These castings on early cars is very porus and gets brittle over time. They sometimes tend to fail simply from old age....if you plan on doing serious cornering, high speed runs, etc I would switch them out to be on the safe side. Ask anyone who has ever welded on one to tell you about the material used.
Best,
D.
Bomb Landed just sorting out the mess
Was in the bunker ZZZZZZ so all safe wink
If thats whats David says well worth taking note if your going to use as an every day car worth the investment in new ones i suspect Adrian will say the same.
I just hear so much about these items and i also see cars that are being used and used regularly and still have there original set that makes me wonder
A

Skullcollecter

26 posts

130 months

Wednesday 2nd April 2014
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My right upright failed on MOT last year, hairline crack. It had been welded once but as I have been hillclimbing it for the last 3 years replaced both
There is a video on youtube of one failing on a Vixen

Grantura MKI

817 posts

157 months

Wednesday 2nd April 2014
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Skullcollecter said:
My right upright failed on MOT last year, hairline crack. It had been welded once but as I have been hillclimbing it for the last 3 years replaced both
There is a video on youtube of one failing on a Vixen
I suspect that the weld was around/near the pivot rod area? They are prone to breaking at this point, especially when servicing the rod. Never had a problem with the top bushing area.
Regards,
D.

prideaux

4,969 posts

148 months

Wednesday 2nd April 2014
quotequote all
Grantura MKI said:
I suspect that the weld was around/near the pivot rod area? They are prone to breaking at this point, especially when servicing the rod. Never had a problem with the top bushing area.
Regards,
D.
I spoke with David Gerald today and Doug can supply new uprights in modern alloy casting from the later model spec which may require the brake back plate changing to fit i am told these are just over £600 including the VAT they have been strengthened some what but if its the age of the material thats a greater issue that creates the fatigue a set of these should be good for another 25 years
Will have to save up my beer tokens (going tea Total the doctor will be pleased)
A


prideaux

4,969 posts

148 months

Wednesday 2nd April 2014
quotequote all
Adrian@ said:
My thoughts on the pivot and fixers of the Vixen upright is that, 'most' do not understand that the 'cotter pin' in the upright is NOT a 'cotter pin', and IF you take the nut off and try to remove it by knocking it through you will stress fracture the casting AND at worse and shear it off, BUT that IF you over tighten it, again you will shear the lug off the casting (I will post a picture of the 'pin' as I have to make 4 tomorrow).
Adrian@
That would be fantastic Adrian what about a step by step picture tread on how to change them wink
A

Grantura MKI

817 posts

157 months

Wednesday 2nd April 2014
quotequote all
The pin is basically a 5/16 bolt with the head cut off and a half round grove. There are two on the bottom of the upright were The pivot rod passes through the casting....over tighten and the ears at the bottom will shear off.
Regards,
D.
Hopefully Adrian@ will post pictures.

Grantura MKI

817 posts

157 months

Wednesday 2nd April 2014
quotequote all
Adrian@ said:
I will but it will start life as a 3/8 UNF bolt.
Adrian@
Andrew...I have work to do here...I'm trying mt best to catch up on it!
My mistake...it is 3/8...have one in my hand.
Cheers,
D.

prideaux

4,969 posts

148 months

Wednesday 2nd April 2014
quotequote all
Adrian@ said:
I will but it will start life as a 3/8 UNF bolt.
Adrian@
Andrew...I have work to do here...I'm trying mt best to catch up on it!
Maybe i can save you some even though i am busy forming a new Company i can find the time its called time Managment Adrian. wink



A

Edited by prideaux on Wednesday 2nd April 19:49