Nest Thermostat - Released in the UK
Discussion
Probably a stupid question, but, I have an electronic box next to my boiler that is used to set what days and time the heating / hot water is on, and a separate 'thermostat' in the hall that simply controls the temperature of the central heating when it is active. Which one does the Nest replace, and is the remaining device still functional...!?!
T350 Brad said:
Probably a stupid question, but, I have an electronic box next to my boiler that is used to set what days and time the heating / hot water is on, and a separate 'thermostat' in the hall that simply controls the temperature of the central heating when it is active. Which one does the Nest replace, and is the remaining device still functional...!?!
The nest thermostat will replace your current thermostat or it can go anywhere (certain limitations about sunlight and things) where there is a power socket. The box near the boiler will be replaced by a Heat Link box if it only controls heating. If it also controls hot water it will remain and a Heat Link box installed near it.Zoon said:
I've decided that the Nest is nothing more than a basic thermostat with as you say nice packaging.
After researching smart thermostats it would seem that the Tado is a far smarter system.
It's a bit more than that though if you believe the spec sheet. It offers occupancy detection, adds an element of 'intelligence' where it learns how long your house takes to warm up and 'learns' how you like the temperature in your house.After researching smart thermostats it would seem that the Tado is a far smarter system.
SirBadger said:
It's a bit more than that though if you believe the spec sheet. It offers occupancy detection, adds an element of 'intelligence' where it learns how long your house takes to warm up and 'learns' how you like the temperature in your house.
Predictive warmup timing is as revolutionary as the wheel. Occupancy detection is fine for a certain layout ie small/open plan but would be a pita for many. Routine prediction is fine for someone with a routine, for which something called a programmable timer is also highly effective...Some input on Nest products. I like my tech, not quite a junky, but very novice so like things to be easy to setup and use, input is made in this regard. I have worked in the mobile industry and keen to see developments like this from the consumer angle in the connected home, hence a bit of an early adopter.
Already had taken the leap and ordered and installed 3 Nest protect smoke and co2 alarms. For a 'novice' the install was pretty straight forward and they worked as advertised. The best feature is really that they all 'talk' when one senses something. I.e. Smoke in the kitchen gets relayed upstairs via the alarm. The worst feature is that there is no intercom so I can't relay back downstairs 'what are you burning my sweet heart'. I am sure this is on the product road map!
Given that I have been pleased with these I took the leap and ordered 3 thermostats and a stand given we have 3 heating zones in the house and one thermostat in a stupid place (rarely used dining room) I will reposition to a side table in the lounge or kitchen.
Having had delivery I have requested the free installation today and await contact. Terms state you only get one install per household so I will pay to have the other 2 installed at the same time. Nest reckon 75 mins for the first install and 40 each for the next 2,3 etc so hopefully it won't further break the already broken bank!
Key bits to note:
Unboxing - great packaging as usual, the actual thermostat is very well made and quite heavy for a palm size object. High quality feel and the brushed steel bevel is very similar to the iphone4/s brushed steel band that caused all the antenna issues! I have not turned it on yet to check screen quality etc as waiting for the installer here. The heat link is bigger but not by much, similar width to an iPhone 4s. Guess which phone I have!!
Installation - whilst I await professional install here is what I know. The install looks complicated enough in my scenario that I am not keen to do a DIY job. I might try it out for a very simple 1 zone system replacing an existing thermostat. I am not in any way good with this type of thing but the instructions are clear if you wanted to attempt it yourself. The biggest issue I suspect most people will have is finding the correct wires from the boiler and existing valves & thermostats to connect correctly. I.e. Live/neautral/satisfied/common/call for heat/12v power and how to connect these directly to zone valves for zoned systems as in my case.
Water - no control possible. Use existing timing function for this. Product update?!
Heat - if existing programmer controls both heat and water (as most do) then keep, to control water. If only does heating then this can be removed. In my case I will have to keep to control the water. The heating gets set to always on as the control is passed over to the Nest system.
Thermostat location - the links all go near the boiler and can be wall mounted. The only issue I see is that some people may have weak or no wifi signal where their boiler is located. You will need to solve this problem first! I have good signal so no issue there thank god. Once the heat links are connected appropriately you can place the nest thermostat anywhere you like subject to common sense and best positioning. You have two main options here. Either you reuse the 12v power lines from existing wired thermostats or you use the included main power option with/without stand. I am going to reuse 2 thermostats in the upstairs hallway and games room but move the current downstairs one from the rarely used dining room to the lounge or kitchen which we use more of. Either way I will place the downstairs one on the optional stand and plug into a plug. I don't know whether I will move it that often and can only assume if unplugged it does not lose any memory and is quick to boot up again. If this is not the case they should have included a small battery in the stand.
The nest stand - mainly a plastic stand but with a nice metal base and band around the edge that matches the thermostat. You could easily mount the thermostat to any moveable invention of your own, a nice piece of oak or similar, you would only need to drill a small hole to run the cable. For £29 whilst not a bargain by comparison to the rest of the kit it takes the hassle out of worrying about making my own for now. See also battery comment above.
Making good - no one wants to redecorate after installing. For where you cover an existing therm the new nest kit is much smaller that the already quite small therms I have so it won't cover fully. You can either touch up paint, not ideal (blending etc) or use the enclosed nest backing plate which is much bigger (hand sized) this comes in a neutral white colour but could be spray painted any colour (matched?) if you like I reckon. I moving locations leaving an existing therm I guess you either leave it there and ignore it, remove it an touch up the gap with filler & paint or remove it and be creative about something to hang/put in its place. I need to think about this more in my case, probably will use the backing plate unless it looks awful and spoils the looks of the petite nest therm.
Why I am an idiot - nothing seemingly wrong with existing setup, always fall for high design tech, this little lot of 3 therms and 1 stand cost £566 with some of my install free but probably another £100-150 to pay. Does not control hot water.
Why I am not an idiot - we spend c.£2,400 a year on both gas and elec. Due to decent amounts of led lighting in high use areas 75% of this is on gas so £1,800 per year. The majority of this goes on heating so let's say £1,500 of addressable cost spend on heating each year. Nest claim 4-29% saving with this product. So that's between £60 and £435 a year in savings. Whilst I don't really view this as an investment, more discretionary tech spending, the payback purely as an investment would be based in a £666 total cost (see above) between 18 months at best and 11 years at worst. I presume this depends on the success of the Nest learning ability and how badly the current system is setup. This and the fact that the product software can update itself means bugs can be ironed out and new features added over time as I can't see this being an iPhone like product with a new model every 12-18 months.
Conclusion pre install - happy with the quality of the kit, professional install requirement in a large number of cases in my view required especially for complex/zoned systems, could see a realistic 10% energy saving for myself which would payback over 4.5/5 yrs, ability to have more control with more ease via app and in house as yet unknown value (hoping it proves useful), could make the house more desirable to rent or sell in future. If it turns out to be a miss judged tech turn I will put it in the black box space in my mind where the Atari Lynx and Sony Minidisk keep each other company.
Everyone else will have to make up their own mind, hopefully this can prove some use to you. I guess unless you are thinking about writing this off to the tech budget the the financial case stacks better if you spend more on energy. I won't update this article post install unless folks want me to. Not new to pistonheads, just new to posting!
Already had taken the leap and ordered and installed 3 Nest protect smoke and co2 alarms. For a 'novice' the install was pretty straight forward and they worked as advertised. The best feature is really that they all 'talk' when one senses something. I.e. Smoke in the kitchen gets relayed upstairs via the alarm. The worst feature is that there is no intercom so I can't relay back downstairs 'what are you burning my sweet heart'. I am sure this is on the product road map!
Given that I have been pleased with these I took the leap and ordered 3 thermostats and a stand given we have 3 heating zones in the house and one thermostat in a stupid place (rarely used dining room) I will reposition to a side table in the lounge or kitchen.
Having had delivery I have requested the free installation today and await contact. Terms state you only get one install per household so I will pay to have the other 2 installed at the same time. Nest reckon 75 mins for the first install and 40 each for the next 2,3 etc so hopefully it won't further break the already broken bank!
Key bits to note:
Unboxing - great packaging as usual, the actual thermostat is very well made and quite heavy for a palm size object. High quality feel and the brushed steel bevel is very similar to the iphone4/s brushed steel band that caused all the antenna issues! I have not turned it on yet to check screen quality etc as waiting for the installer here. The heat link is bigger but not by much, similar width to an iPhone 4s. Guess which phone I have!!
Installation - whilst I await professional install here is what I know. The install looks complicated enough in my scenario that I am not keen to do a DIY job. I might try it out for a very simple 1 zone system replacing an existing thermostat. I am not in any way good with this type of thing but the instructions are clear if you wanted to attempt it yourself. The biggest issue I suspect most people will have is finding the correct wires from the boiler and existing valves & thermostats to connect correctly. I.e. Live/neautral/satisfied/common/call for heat/12v power and how to connect these directly to zone valves for zoned systems as in my case.
Water - no control possible. Use existing timing function for this. Product update?!
Heat - if existing programmer controls both heat and water (as most do) then keep, to control water. If only does heating then this can be removed. In my case I will have to keep to control the water. The heating gets set to always on as the control is passed over to the Nest system.
Thermostat location - the links all go near the boiler and can be wall mounted. The only issue I see is that some people may have weak or no wifi signal where their boiler is located. You will need to solve this problem first! I have good signal so no issue there thank god. Once the heat links are connected appropriately you can place the nest thermostat anywhere you like subject to common sense and best positioning. You have two main options here. Either you reuse the 12v power lines from existing wired thermostats or you use the included main power option with/without stand. I am going to reuse 2 thermostats in the upstairs hallway and games room but move the current downstairs one from the rarely used dining room to the lounge or kitchen which we use more of. Either way I will place the downstairs one on the optional stand and plug into a plug. I don't know whether I will move it that often and can only assume if unplugged it does not lose any memory and is quick to boot up again. If this is not the case they should have included a small battery in the stand.
The nest stand - mainly a plastic stand but with a nice metal base and band around the edge that matches the thermostat. You could easily mount the thermostat to any moveable invention of your own, a nice piece of oak or similar, you would only need to drill a small hole to run the cable. For £29 whilst not a bargain by comparison to the rest of the kit it takes the hassle out of worrying about making my own for now. See also battery comment above.
Making good - no one wants to redecorate after installing. For where you cover an existing therm the new nest kit is much smaller that the already quite small therms I have so it won't cover fully. You can either touch up paint, not ideal (blending etc) or use the enclosed nest backing plate which is much bigger (hand sized) this comes in a neutral white colour but could be spray painted any colour (matched?) if you like I reckon. I moving locations leaving an existing therm I guess you either leave it there and ignore it, remove it an touch up the gap with filler & paint or remove it and be creative about something to hang/put in its place. I need to think about this more in my case, probably will use the backing plate unless it looks awful and spoils the looks of the petite nest therm.
Why I am an idiot - nothing seemingly wrong with existing setup, always fall for high design tech, this little lot of 3 therms and 1 stand cost £566 with some of my install free but probably another £100-150 to pay. Does not control hot water.
Why I am not an idiot - we spend c.£2,400 a year on both gas and elec. Due to decent amounts of led lighting in high use areas 75% of this is on gas so £1,800 per year. The majority of this goes on heating so let's say £1,500 of addressable cost spend on heating each year. Nest claim 4-29% saving with this product. So that's between £60 and £435 a year in savings. Whilst I don't really view this as an investment, more discretionary tech spending, the payback purely as an investment would be based in a £666 total cost (see above) between 18 months at best and 11 years at worst. I presume this depends on the success of the Nest learning ability and how badly the current system is setup. This and the fact that the product software can update itself means bugs can be ironed out and new features added over time as I can't see this being an iPhone like product with a new model every 12-18 months.
Conclusion pre install - happy with the quality of the kit, professional install requirement in a large number of cases in my view required especially for complex/zoned systems, could see a realistic 10% energy saving for myself which would payback over 4.5/5 yrs, ability to have more control with more ease via app and in house as yet unknown value (hoping it proves useful), could make the house more desirable to rent or sell in future. If it turns out to be a miss judged tech turn I will put it in the black box space in my mind where the Atari Lynx and Sony Minidisk keep each other company.
Everyone else will have to make up their own mind, hopefully this can prove some use to you. I guess unless you are thinking about writing this off to the tech budget the the financial case stacks better if you spend more on energy. I won't update this article post install unless folks want me to. Not new to pistonheads, just new to posting!
I have just had a phone call of someone who has ordered one of these and had it fitted, he says the unit gets its power from a USB lead, it has a micro USB slot on it. He now has been left with a USB lead dangling down the wall with an adaptor plugged into an extension lead. This cant be right can it?
NH1 said:
I have just had a phone call of someone who has ordered one of these and had it fitted, he says the unit gets its power from a USB lead, it has a micro USB slot on it. He now has been left with a USB lead dangling down the wall with an adaptor plugged into an extension lead. This cant be right can it?
Yes that sounds right, very poor design. At least Tado has a solar sensor.NH1 said:
I have just had a phone call of someone who has ordered one of these and had it fitted, he says the unit gets its power from a USB lead, it has a micro USB slot on it. He now has been left with a USB lead dangling down the wall with an adaptor plugged into an extension lead. This cant be right can it?
Not sure I follow. Weren't they given a choice of where the Nest was installed? It needs a power point, and I can't see any fitter installing one of those for you. If there was no power point near where they wanted it then surely they either need to get one added or put the Nest somewhere else?
fadeaway said:
Not sure I follow. Weren't they given a choice of where the Nest was installed?
It needs a power point, and I can't see any fitter installing one of those for you. If there was no power point near where they wanted it then surely they either need to get one added or put the Nest somewhere else?
Common sense says that it would fit in place of the original hard wired room stat, just like virtually every other wireless stat I have seen. You cant expect the nest to be screwed to a wall somewhere connected to what amounts to a phone charger plugged in next to it with a looop of cable going into the bottom of it. This sounds like the most amateur thing I have seen in a long while.It needs a power point, and I can't see any fitter installing one of those for you. If there was no power point near where they wanted it then surely they either need to get one added or put the Nest somewhere else?
NH1 said:
Common sense says that it would fit in place of the original hard wired room stat, just like virtually every other wireless stat I have seen. You cant expect the nest to be screwed to a wall somewhere connected to what amounts to a phone charger plugged in next to it with a looop of cable going into the bottom of it. This sounds like the most amateur thing I have seen in a long while.
Mine has been installed where my old thermostat was with no visible wires on show. It's powered by the heat link via the original thermostat wires. You can also purchase a nest stand with is powered from a plug socket or mount it on the wall above a power socket and have the wires on show. Why anyone would go for the last option I have no idea..Edited by SirBadger on Thursday 17th April 21:06
SirBadger said:
NH1 said:
Common sense says that it would fit in place of the original hard wired room stat, just like virtually every other wireless stat I have seen. You cant expect the nest to be screwed to a wall somewhere connected to what amounts to a phone charger plugged in next to it with a looop of cable going into the bottom of it. This sounds like the most amateur thing I have seen in a long while.
Mine has been installed where my old thermostat was with no visible wires on show. It's powered by the heat link via the original thermostat wires. You can also purchase a nest stand with is powered from a plug socket or mount it on the wall above a power socket and have the wires on show. Why anyone would go for the last option I have no idea..Edited by SirBadger on Thursday 17th April 21:06
Does anyone fancy popping the cover of theirs and see how its been done.
NH1 said:
It is strange. I haven't seen it yet but he says he was told that the USA ones could be hard wired in but the UK version has to run of a USB lead, I suspect the fitter just wanted an easy day. On the videos I have seen there looks to be an alarm type 12v cable with 4 connectioins, presumably +ve, -ve and 2 switch wires. There doesn't seem much space to be able to terminate a 3C&E cable in there though which I would imagine 99% of stats are wired this way.
Does anyone fancy popping the cover of theirs and see how its been done.
Does anyone fancy popping the cover of theirs and see how its been done.
There's some more detail in the installation guide
Edited by SirBadger on Friday 18th April 15:33
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