UKIP - The Future - Volume 2

[FiF]

Sorry people I've been busy today dealing with students and dissertation brain emptiness plus varying amounts of wwords on paper most of them with little connection to the subject lots of connection to Google. I digress.

Now wasn't there some Labour supporter on the thread, forget his name, shortdonkeyjacket perhaps, who was asking about policies?


cough

[einsign]

What he said here is simply common sense and plain logic, I don't care if its Nigel, UKIP or any other party or person who makes such a statement, who ever disagrees with that is simply not right in the head. Left, right, up or down, fact is always fact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah2IN5S6GOY

[mrpurple]

einsign said:

What he said here is simply common sense and plain logic, I don't care if its Nigel, UKIP or any other party or person who makes such a statement, who ever disagrees with that is simply not right in the head. Left, right, up or down, fact is always fact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah2IN5S6GOY

No doubt BV, 10PS et al will somehow try to spin some racist bile into this speech..for myself I have heard enough to guarantee UKIP my vote. I am sure they will be pleased to know that , as far as posts containing their slurs are concerned, my ignore button has been pressed and will stay that way until after May 22nd

[Jinx]

Guam said:

Oh my it would appear CMD wants to bring God back into politics, I dont know whether to laugh or cry and they think Nigel is a fruitcake.

Those Dutch guys in the CRS grouping seem to have made an impression on the Tories

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10771339/...

Edited by Guam on Thursday 17th April 07:21

Lisa Simpson said:

Prayer; the last refuge of a scoundrel

[longblackcoat]

mrpurple said:

einsign said:

What he said here is simply common sense and plain logic, I don't care if its Nigel, UKIP or any other party or person who makes such a statement, who ever disagrees with that is simply not right in the head. Left, right, up or down, fact is always fact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah2IN5S6GOY

No doubt BV, 10PS et al will somehow try to spin some racist bile into this speech..for myself I have heard enough to guarantee UKIP my vote. I am sure they will be pleased to know that , as far as posts containing their slurs are concerned, my ignore button has been pressed and will stay that way until after May 22nd

Strange how we can all read different things into the same video.

I looked at that and couldn't find the common sense. Same old stuff from Farage; set up a straw man, knock it down, claim victory.

I have yet to see, as Farage claims, any attempt by the EU to abolish nation-states. His words, not mine, so let's assume he means what he says. If anyone wants to provide facts (i.e. not just repeat Nige's assertions) to back up his claim that the European nation states are set to be abolished, then I'll listen. Until then, I'll continue to believe that Farage is continuing to run a scare campaign.

But maybe he's right and I've been wrong for all these years. If there's proof of what he claims, someone will have that evidence. Conversely, if no such evidence can be produced, then it confirms everything I've thought about him for years.

[don4l]

longblackcoat said:

Strange how we can all read different things into the same video.

I looked at that and couldn't find the common sense. Same old stuff from Farage; set up a straw man, knock it down, claim victory.

I have yet to see, as Farage claims, any attempt by the EU to abolish nation-states. His words, not mine, so let's assume he means what he says. If anyone wants to provide facts (i.e. not just repeat Nige's assertions) to back up his claim that the European nation states are set to be abolished, then I'll listen. Until then, I'll continue to believe that Farage is continuing to run a scare campaign.

But maybe he's right and I've been wrong for all these years. If there's proof of what he claims, someone will have that evidence. Conversely, if no such evidence can be produced, then it confirms everything I've thought about him for years.

Here is the very first sentence of the Treaty of Rome.

Treaty of Rome said:

THE TREATY OF ROME

25 March 1957

HIS MAJESTY THE KING OF THE BELGIANS,
THE PRESIDENT OF THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF GERMANY,
THE PRESIDENT OF THE FRENCH REPUBLIC,
THE PRESIDENT OF THE ITALIAN REPUBLIC,
HER ROYAL HIGHNESS THE GRAND DUCHESS OF LUXEMBOURG,
HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN OF THE NETHERLANDS,

DETERMINED to lay the foundations of an ever-closer union among the peoples of
Europe,

What do you think was meant by the phrase "ever closer union"?

How can we achieve "ever closer union" without sacrificing sovereignty?

[FiF]

longblackcoat said:

mrpurple said:

einsign said:

What he said here is simply common sense and plain logic, I don't care if its Nigel, UKIP or any other party or person who makes such a statement, who ever disagrees with that is simply not right in the head. Left, right, up or down, fact is always fact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah2IN5S6GOY

No doubt BV, 10PS et al will somehow try to spin some racist bile into this speech..for myself I have heard enough to guarantee UKIP my vote. I am sure they will be pleased to know that , as far as posts containing their slurs are concerned, my ignore button has been pressed and will stay that way until after May 22nd

Strange how we can all read different things into the same video.

I looked at that and couldn't find the common sense. Same old stuff from Farage; set up a straw man, knock it down, claim victory.

I have yet to see, as Farage claims, any attempt by the EU to abolish nation-states. His words, not mine, so let's assume he means what he says. If anyone wants to provide facts (i.e. not just repeat Nige's assertions) to back up his claim that the European nation states are set to be abolished, then I'll listen. Until then, I'll continue to believe that Farage is continuing to run a scare campaign.

But maybe he's right and I've been wrong for all these years. If there's proof of what he claims, someone will have that evidence. Conversely, if no such evidence can be produced, then it confirms everything I've thought about him for years.

Sigh

Once again.

The foundation of what today is thought of as the European Union started out n 1946 by the formation of the European Union of Federalists. It was, at that time, formed largely from the war time resistance movements. It attempted to exploit the disruption caused to existing political structures by the war to make a new start on a basis radically different from the Europe of nation states, and to create a federal constitution for Europe, as part of a more distant plan for global unity.

For anyone who has studied politics in the European Union this is simply a fact of history.

lbc, Stop trying to dredge things up and say it's all in Farage's imaginings and nowhere else, you are doing your case and credibility much damage. Maybe you don't want that advice, so be it, your problem.

[Art0ir]

longblackcoat said:

Strange how we can all read different things into the same video.

I looked at that and couldn't find the common sense. Same old stuff from Farage; set up a straw man, knock it down, claim victory.

I have yet to see, as Farage claims, any attempt by the EU to abolish nation-states. His words, not mine, so let's assume he means what he says. If anyone wants to provide facts (i.e. not just repeat Nige's assertions) to back up his claim that the European nation states are set to be abolished, then I'll listen. Until then, I'll continue to believe that Farage is continuing to run a scare campaign.

But maybe he's right and I've been wrong for all these years. If there's proof of what he claims, someone will have that evidence. Conversely, if no such evidence can be produced, then it confirms everything I've thought about him for years.

Do you have any rebuttals from other MEPs or clips of other replying to his claims?

Because there's plenty of them available for other things he says that upset them, yet always compete silence when he mentions abolishing the nation state.

Perhaps you should watch some speeches by the EU commission or Presidents, where they regularly talk about a united states of Europe. Perhaps you should take your head out of the sand...

[TTwiggy]

A United States of Europe (if it ever happened) would not stop me being English, anymore than being part of the UK stops my girlfriend from being Welsh.

Closer ties between nations (in whatever form it might take) doesn't equal the loss of national identity.

[4v6]

longblackcoat said:

I have yet to see, as Farage claims, any attempt by the EU to abolish nation-states. His words, not mine, so let's assume he means what he says. If anyone wants to provide facts (i.e. not just repeat Nige's assertions) to back up his claim that the European nation states are set to be abolished, then I'll listen. Until then, I'll continue to believe that Farage is continuing to run a scare campaign.

But maybe he's right and I've been wrong for all these years. If there's proof of what he claims, someone will have that evidence. Conversely, if no such evidence can be produced, then it confirms everything I've thought about him for years.

Why is it that no matter how wide open some peoples eyes are they simply dont see anything?

Heres your proof.

In EU Parliament’s Visitors Centre, there is a plaque with the following written on it:

"National sovereignty is the root cause of the most crying evils of our times… The only final remedy for this supreme and catastrophic evil of our time is a federal union of the peoples…”.

Federal Union...sovereignty is evil...final remedy/solution.
Wake the fk up.

[10 Pence Short]

Guam said:

Not in the broad sense but it does in the Legal sense, in the same way a Texan does not hold a Texas passport, he is a US citizen not a citizen of Texas, we become no more than a regional subset of the new state, like A scouser or a Geordie is now relative to being a UK citizen.

How do you feel about Scotland becoming independent from the UK?

[mrpurple]

4v6 said:

longblackcoat said:

I have yet to see, as Farage claims, any attempt by the EU to abolish nation-states. His words, not mine, so let's assume he means what he says. If anyone wants to provide facts (i.e. not just repeat Nige's assertions) to back up his claim that the European nation states are set to be abolished, then I'll listen. Until then, I'll continue to believe that Farage is continuing to run a scare campaign.

But maybe he's right and I've been wrong for all these years. If there's proof of what he claims, someone will have that evidence. Conversely, if no such evidence can be produced, then it confirms everything I've thought about him for years.

Why is it that no matter how wide open some peoples eyes are they simply dont see anything?

Heres your proof.

In EU Parliament’s Visitors Centre, there is a plaque with the following written on it:

"National sovereignty is the root cause of the most crying evils of our times… The only final remedy for this supreme and catastrophic evil of our time is a federal union of the peoples…”.

Federal Union...sovereignty is evil...final remedy/solution.
Wake the fk up.

There you go.

[longblackcoat]

4v6 said:

Why is it that no matter how wide open some peoples eyes are they simply dont see anything?

Heres your proof.

In EU Parliament’s Visitors Centre, there is a plaque with the following written on it:

"National sovereignty is the root cause of the most crying evils of our times… The only final remedy for this supreme and catastrophic evil of our time is a federal union of the peoples…”.

Federal Union...sovereignty is evil...final remedy/solution.
Wake the fk up.

I've been to the Parliamentarium and seen that quote. And I'm sure that a United States of Europe is desired by many people (not me, I have to say). It's just never going to happen, which Farage knows. I don't know of any EU leader who wants this, or who thinks it would be remotely saleable to the population.

The point is that Farage is claiming that "the EU" aims to abolish nation states. Not just some form of union, but actually abolishing countries. No more France, no more Britain - presumably just regions, but I don't know. Again, there will be some who would favour this - there are always crackpots - but "the EU" have no plan to do this than I have a plan to go to Mars. As I say, show me the proof that this is likely to occur (i.e. more than just the pipe dreams of a few uber-Europeans) and I'll listen.

Bear in mind that Farage states that the EU are planning (that means actively doing something about it, not just some professors producing an academic paper) to abolish the nation state. And I think he's talking cobblers, frankly. But if you can point me to a document that says I have to hand my British passport in by 2025 (or any other date) I'll be interested to see it.

[10 Pence Short]

Guam said:

Thats a matter for them, although I am on record as stating I would vote for their exit if I was given the mandate.

What is UKIP's policy on Scottish independence? Is it yes or no?

[WinstonWolf]

10 Pence Short said:

Guam said:

Thats a matter for them, although I am on record as stating I would vote for their exit if I was given the mandate.

What is UKIP's policy on Scottish independence? Is it yes or no?

There is a Scottish Independence thread if you're interested in it. You, you, bigot you...

[steveT350C]

Seems like a load of common sense to me...

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/471010/We-ll-tack...

[johnfm]

10 Pence Short said:

Guam said:

Thats a matter for them, although I am on record as stating I would vote for their exit if I was given the mandate.

What is UKIP's policy on Scottish independence? Is it yes or no?

I think in the Farage phone in the telegraph ran he is asked.

I expect you can see the whole hour phone in on the Telegraph.

It is very very refreshing to see a politician answering questions and, when he doesn't know, saying "I don't know".

Sadly, we are saddled with Milliband and Cameron or their ilk for the foreseeable - centre left, tax and spend professional politicians who make decisions whose outcomes do not effect them one iota.

[steveT350C]

Missed this last week. Surely this is enough of a transfer of power for a referendum on our EU membership?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/e...

First three paragraphs

"One of the few “successes” of the British negotiations over the Lisbon Treaty, which came into force in 2009, was a partial opt-out from the Charter of Fundamental Rights. This political agreement was proclaimed by EU institutions some 14 years ago to replicate the European Convention on Human Rights. The difference is that while the convention comes under the auspices of the Council of Europe, an organisation of more than 40 countries – including Russia and Turkey – the charter is an EU document."

"The distinction is significant. Whereas the convention is administered through the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) in Strasbourg, the charter is enforced by the European Court of Justice (ECJ) in Luxembourg. The former, at least in theory, has no direct jurisdiction over our courts; but the latter is the supreme judicial body, whose decisions are binding. This is because EU law has a direct effect under the European Communities Act 1972 and therefore overrides British courts and Parliament."

"Increasingly, these rights are being transferred to the EU. Viviane Reding, the vice-president of the European Commission, says she wants the charter to be the EU’s “very own” Bill of Rights, which would apply to all member states and have legally binding force. The UK’s so-called exemption would effectively be null and void. In fact, the ECJ is already attempting to impose charter rights on Britain, much to the alarm of senior judges and MPs."

[WinstonWolf]

This is how it ends. Not with a bang but with a whimper...

[0a]

Telegraph: European elections: Conservatives face poll humiliation as one in three Tory voters defect to Ukip

All good fun!