Building a Special

[mph]

I'm getting the itch to build another special.

Thing is I don't want it to have a modern registration and the chassis I intend to use would be new.

All the oily bits would be Jaguar and 1960's or earlier.

In the past it was quite easy. Buy a donor saloon, change the bodywork section on the V5 from saloon to two seater sports and send it off to the DVLA. No problems.

I don't think they are quite so flexible these days so has anyone managed to get a special registered recently without it having a new identity ?

Please PM me if you want to maintain discretion.

[Steffan]

mph said:

I'm getting the itch to build another special.

Thing is I don't want it to have a modern registration and the chassis I intend to use would be new.

All the oily bits would be Jaguar and 1960's or earlier.

In the past it was quite easy. Buy a donor saloon, change the bodywork section on the V5 from saloon to two seater sports and send it off to the DVLA. No problems.

I don't think they are quite so flexible these days so has anyone managed to get a special registered recently without it having a new identity ?

Please PM me if you want to maintain discretion.

It can be done and anyone viewing kit cars as I have done will have seen the God awful illegal results that arise. I would strongly advise against that route. Legally the ONLY way to register a special now is via IVA. Not as difficult as sometimes suggested but not easy. I regularly get five kit cars a year through IVA a year as a private individual and it is not cheap but it is the only legal way. You could use a modern chassis incorporate enough of the original donor vehicle get the body change and retain the registration or get an age related plate via IVA? You will need receipts etc to substantiate the build. That would be my advice. Otherwise I would not attempt the alternative.

[mph]

Steffan said:

It can be done and anyone viewing kit cars as I have done will have seen the God awful illegal results that arise. I would strongly advise against that route. Legally the ONLY way to register a special now is via IVA. Not as difficult as sometimes suggested but not easy. I regularly get five kit cars a year through IVA a year as a private individual and it is not cheap but it is the only legal way. You could use a modern chassis incorporate enough of the original donor vehicle get the body change and retain the registration or get an age related plate via IVA? You will need receipts etc to substantiate the build. That would be my advice. Otherwise I would not attempt the alternative.

I've had a look on the DVLA website and think I understand it.

Am I right in thinking that if I use a recognised (new) chassis and enough parts of the donor vehicle I will at least get an age related registration based on the donor cars age ?

Will that also mean the car will be subject to the same rules as it's age related registration ? For example would a car that's issued with a 1957 age-related registration be exempt from MOT and road tax requirements ?

[Rich G]

Some useful links here, particularly regarding BIVA...

http://www.the-ace.org.uk/

Should be quite possible to get a "period" registration if the right components are selected.

[sparkey]

I can't understand why people who build kit cars or specials are desperate not to have a Q plate. The Q plate is a small detail that signifies the car is not identifiable as being made by a single car manufacturer in a particular year - ie it's been seriously modified or is made up of several cars.

Surely the point of a special is that it looks different so the rest of the car should be more of a giveaway than a number on the plate! The exception may be those wishing to try and pass off a copy (replica, recreation, evocation, pastiche or whatever they choose to call their copy..) as the real thing.

S..

[Poison Tom 96]

Always unsure with the 'Q' rules, do Q plates prevent you putting a private plate on the car?

[imagineifyeswill]

In a nutshell, yes, you cannot reregister a Q plate car on a cherished number, once a Q plate allways a Q plate.

[Mistron]

I appreciate that the road should be kept clear of 'death traps', but all of this IVA nonsense has stopped a generation or more of enthusiasts, and more importantly, YOUNG enthusiasts benign able to express and explore the freedom to build and design their own cars.

If you want to build something yourself these day's the only real option is an off the shelf kit.

Without 750MC enthusiasts like Chapman & Broadley etc etc and their home building compatriots Britain wouldn't lead the world in GP racing.

How many great engineers have we lost through it? Many. Makes me really cross.

But I agree, there is a fine line between allowing the 'right kind of special' and a host of death traps.

Personally, I find it's a struggle to get genuine period cars registered as age appropriate if you don't have proof of their age (as is the case with a project I have at the moment)because you can't find a builder to confirm it. There should be an independant assessor who knows enough to say 'yup, I agree that's not a kit,it's old and should be registered appropriately'



Al

[Hooli]

mph said:

Steffan said:

It can be done and anyone viewing kit cars as I have done will have seen the God awful illegal results that arise. I would strongly advise against that route. Legally the ONLY way to register a special now is via IVA. Not as difficult as sometimes suggested but not easy. I regularly get five kit cars a year through IVA a year as a private individual and it is not cheap but it is the only legal way. You could use a modern chassis incorporate enough of the original donor vehicle get the body change and retain the registration or get an age related plate via IVA? You will need receipts etc to substantiate the build. That would be my advice. Otherwise I would not attempt the alternative.

I've had a look on the DVLA website and think I understand it.

Am I right in thinking that if I use a recognised (new) chassis and enough parts of the donor vehicle I will at least get an age related registration based on the donor cars age ?

Will that also mean the car will be subject to the same rules as it's age related registration ? For example would a car that's issued with a 1957 age-related registration be exempt from MOT and road tax requirements ?

That sounds right to me.

Series LRs keep their reg on brand new galvanised chassis and MGs keep theirs with brand new Heritage shells as two examples of how it works.

[Steffan]

The answer is a definite yes but to achieve this you must follow the DVLA requirements. It is possible to replace the complete chassis on classic cars and continuos registration can be achieve. As ever the devil is in the detail. If you want more advice you are most welcome to pm me. It certainly can be done and I have owned several cars where this has been done. But the compliance with the detail is critical. Entirely up to the OP.

[Mistron]

So, here is a theoretical proposition:

Rusty rear wheel drive classic - Midget, MGB, Herald, that sort of thing. Can it be built into a new chassis?

if the original engine / box / axle / steering are used?

Suspension would have to be original units as well - wishbones, lever arm dampers and leaf springs.

The resultant 'car' could have a 'new' chassis and body?

What then if the engine is worn - could a replacement unit be used? What if the 'donor' vehicle had already had a replacement?

[Flatinfourth]

The Bensport Bentley MkVI idea is a curious one! I look after a nice useable MkVI and the void between the value of that fine car and their creation represents a margin so vast as to be truly astounding for a special, but on the other hand Eagle appear to manage it very successfully with their speedster.

There should be no need to deviate from Bentleys Continental spec on the chassis, surely there is no need for this car to be any more than a re-body in the eyes of the DVLA, it is not nearly as invasive a process as creating a replica 250 GTO from a 250GT, a process which has resulted in several calls to me by people looking for tubs, panels and identities!

The Bentley chassis was considered to form the major fabric of the car, the entity if you like, and was available to coach builders when new via the showrooms.

Interesting!

[windy1]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

This sort of propaganda and the IVA is what is killing off our kit car and mod car industry!
There is no logic to it. First we have SVA, then IVA and then suddenly no MOT at all for pre 1960s cars. The sooner we get away from the goons in Europe who are making the rules the better. We need to go back to the original system of MOT inspection and friendly DVLA staff at local offices to get these one-off projects on the road.
Men and women working away in sheds is what makes our country tick. lets not kill it please!!!

[Steffan]

I have to agree with Windy1 that the net result of this change has been to reduce interest and activity amongst kit cars and special creation. However I cannot see this changing for the good currently. The fact is that far too many unsafe and not reasonably well founded kit cars were getting on the road under the old system and like it or not this is going to be the future for uk kit car building. It is possible to get an old car rebodied and rechassied and retain the original plate providing sufficient elements or the original car are clearly identified and used and all the receipts are available for DVLA registration procedures to be met. I register at least five kit cars a year and not one has a Q plate because I much prefer age related plates. I will happily pm anyone who pms me with a request for assistance who is unsure of what needs to be done if that would help. My Quantum RSTurbo registered on 1st March 2014 has got a transferable age related plate on it and that is perfectly easily done under these rules.

But the DVLA are seeking to protect their jobs by making heavy weather of this process currently, following the significant closures of local DVLA offices around the UK. My Banham Sprite based on a late 1960 mini (I bought it like that I would not attempt the original conversion personally: a pre 60 mini is vastly better as an original) and will have an age related plate shorty (God willing) and this is not tremendously difficult. But it does require receipts for the donor parts provenance for the age related plates and details for the DVLA. That is the way it is and that is IMO the way it will stay. There are no shortcuts and legally there will be no shortcuts. That is kit car and specials building in the UK in 2014.

[Mistron]

So, My understanding is that a monocoque chassis canot be modified if the number is retained, or else it will get a Q plate. The Banham Frogeye was based on a cut down mini (floor pan and bulkhead were all that remained, was it not) so is this still possible whilst retaining the 'donor' registration?

Could you build a coupe body on a mini shell and retain the ooriginal 'identity'?

What about a shortened VW chassis for a beach buggy?

Al

[Steffan]

Mistron said:

So, My understanding is that a monocoque chassis canot be modified if the number is retained, or else it will get a Q plate. The Banham Frogeye was based on a cut down mini (floor pan and bulkhead were all that remained, was it not) so is this still possible whilst retaining the 'donor' registration?

Could you build a coupe body on a mini shell and retain the ooriginal 'identity'?

What about a shortened VW chassis for a beach buggy?

Al

I actually have just bought a Banham Sprite based on a Mini 998 which is correctly registered as a Banham Sprite and has a private plate on the car and I just received the V5 with all the correct details in my name. So it is definitely possible. There is a lot of work to do including major repairs to the Mini floor, sills, rear inner arches, front inner arches, a complete engine rebuil and a complete retrim with all new interior. Since I paid a far bit for the car and there is so much work when finished in about eight weeks it will owe me about £4000.

That will include a compete respray and some minor fibreglass repairs. The 998 engine is a Wood And Picket special so it will fly with the reduced weight on the already light Mini base. I also have a genuine Sprite with a Triumph 1500 engine and rebodied as a original Frogeye which is another flyer. I have never known a Triumph 1500 like this one and that owes me about £3500. That also needs a compete respray but otherwise is a solid later spritev and pre rubbber bumper.

I build and refurbish kit cars for a hobby and as a retired accountant I can afford to do that. I think it is a moot point whether this is monetarily worthwhile but the real thing's now like the Frogeye are fetching daft money certainly a solid car in equivalent condition with history would be fetching over £12000 I thnk. Possibly more. Can't be done much cheaper than that IMO and both will pass as original cars unless someone really looks closely. With the genuine sprite very closely but the FWD of the Mini is obvious once the bonnet is raised.

So there it is. It is definitely possible to create such cars on original plates or with age related plates. If anyone wants further discussions they are most welcome to PM me but I am in Italy currently fettling old Alfa Romeos for a friend who owns several over here which is a really challenging job but great fun. And the Italian ladies love these old classics! It is as I have said before a hard life.

[Rich G]

Mistron said:

So, My understanding is that a monocoque chassis canot be modified if the number is retained, or else it will get a Q plate. The Banham Frogeye was based on a cut down mini (floor pan and bulkhead were all that remained, was it not) so is this still possible whilst retaining the 'donor' registration?

Could you build a coupe body on a mini shell and retain the ooriginal 'identity'?

What about a shortened VW chassis for a beach buggy?

Al

The answer to your second question in no; because you will be modifying the "chassis" and will therefore lose the core 5 points you need to retain the identity of the vehicle.

In the first instance it very much depends what you mean; cutting the Mini shell about equals modifying the monocoque where again you would lose the core 5 points you need to retain the identity of the vehicle.

Rich

[Mistron]

Exactly Rich, which makes me think projects like the Banham are a non starter these days, and the Ogle replicas must be a bit 'iffy'

Al

[lowdrag]

A few years back I built my long tail C-type and it is registered as a 1952 XK120, since the DVLA deny that the actual specification "C-Type" exists! I suggest we talk Mike, since you will need the why's and wherefores. You have my email address, so drop me a line with your telephone number. And I suggest you look out for these fanatics:-

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I did try and convert them to our needs, but they throw the baby out with the bath water it seems.

Edited by lowdrag on Sunday 13th April 19:41

[Flatinfourth]

So how does a Beacham stand here? restored and heavily modified superstructure, to take modified drivetrain, wiring loom, ecus and dash from a modern car....

By comparison shortening a floorpan to fit a new kit body is minor surgery, surely?