Mercedes 2014 clean sweep?
Discussion
In 1988, McLaren won 15 out of 16 races. In 2011, Red Bull Racing took 18 pole positions in 19 races.
Now that Mercedes have demonstrated how much faster than the rest of the field their current car really is, could they break these records?
(Typo corrected)
Now that Mercedes have demonstrated how much faster than the rest of the field their current car really is, could they break these records?
(Typo corrected)
Edited by Bradgate on Sunday 6th April 22:48
If they are reliable and don't crash into each other I think Hamilton and Rosberg will be 1-2 in every race, although not necessarily always in that order.
For most of the race they were cruising and gaining 1 second a lap, but we saw at the end that they have the capability to be 2 seconds per lap faster than anyone else if required. I can't see how the other teams can find that kind of time with the limited testing that is available these days, the gap is simply far too big.
For most of the race they were cruising and gaining 1 second a lap, but we saw at the end that they have the capability to be 2 seconds per lap faster than anyone else if required. I can't see how the other teams can find that kind of time with the limited testing that is available these days, the gap is simply far too big.
The RB is fast. In the corners it looks good. The Merc engine's advantage will be limited in some way. That's what will happen after pressure from RB, the kings of the pitlane.
Once the Renault engine starts to be competitive then other teams will be pushing.
The problem, although not from Merc's point of view, is that the engine is designed for the car and the car is designed for the engine. The ancillaries and such are in their optimum position for the weight distribution, the suspension, and for the aero. And more. I wouldn't suggest that Merc had it easy, but they certainly had it easier.
The others will catch up, and I bet it will be before half-way. But by then, even with double points, it will be too late for the WDC, and well before that for the WCC. However, the WDC is of no account in reality. The sport is a team event and 'champions' are no more worthy of the cup than, for instance, a team captain in football.
In the meantime, today's race was very entertaining. In fact it was thrilling all the way through. There were, initially, three races: the Merc, then the cars with Merc engines, and then the rest. In the end it ended up as a double race.
If you look towards the winner being everything in F1 for a spectator and fan, then you miss so much. There are good 'races' all the way down. We were treated to a spectacular race for the top step today. I was with some friends and one of them fell into a door when he stood up quickly in his excitement at the race for first, and he's an Alonso fan (so deserved some injury). I'm a McLaren fan, and I was thrilled by the racing today. Fair enough, after the last few years my expectation level is probably lower than most fans, but it is still exciting.
Once the Renault engine starts to be competitive then other teams will be pushing.
The problem, although not from Merc's point of view, is that the engine is designed for the car and the car is designed for the engine. The ancillaries and such are in their optimum position for the weight distribution, the suspension, and for the aero. And more. I wouldn't suggest that Merc had it easy, but they certainly had it easier.
The others will catch up, and I bet it will be before half-way. But by then, even with double points, it will be too late for the WDC, and well before that for the WCC. However, the WDC is of no account in reality. The sport is a team event and 'champions' are no more worthy of the cup than, for instance, a team captain in football.
In the meantime, today's race was very entertaining. In fact it was thrilling all the way through. There were, initially, three races: the Merc, then the cars with Merc engines, and then the rest. In the end it ended up as a double race.
If you look towards the winner being everything in F1 for a spectator and fan, then you miss so much. There are good 'races' all the way down. We were treated to a spectacular race for the top step today. I was with some friends and one of them fell into a door when he stood up quickly in his excitement at the race for first, and he's an Alonso fan (so deserved some injury). I'm a McLaren fan, and I was thrilled by the racing today. Fair enough, after the last few years my expectation level is probably lower than most fans, but it is still exciting.
Bradgate said:
In 1998, McLaren won 15 out of 16 races.
1998? Coulthard was never that good! 
Yeah, it's not hard to think you're not the only one thinking of McLaren's record. I wonder if the Mercs will still have their advantage at Monaco or Hungary, or even circuits with high speed corners like Spa?
F1 development moves fast these days. The other teams can catch up much faster than in 1988, although the Merc advantage may involve too much engineering, even some changes are now 'locked' too.
So maybe the only chance is if the team implodes like McLaren in 2007, but I can't see it the way NR and LH play-fought after today's race.
Whilst the MP4/4 was certainly no dog, Prost and Senna were THE two best drivers on the grid, at the very top of their game.
Worryingly, we saw today the true advantage Mercedes currently enjoy, and it's more then McLaren did in '88, whilst it's very early to make any predictions, I can well see it happening, though it isn't too hard to imagine them taking each other off later in the season, when they're less friendly.
Alternatively, perhaps it could be arranged for Jean-Louis Schlesser to come out of retirement for a race or two.......?
Worryingly, we saw today the true advantage Mercedes currently enjoy, and it's more then McLaren did in '88, whilst it's very early to make any predictions, I can well see it happening, though it isn't too hard to imagine them taking each other off later in the season, when they're less friendly.
Alternatively, perhaps it could be arranged for Jean-Louis Schlesser to come out of retirement for a race or two.......?
g4ry13 said:
Unlikely, I expect Red Bull will catch up like they have done in previous seasons and challenge. Not sure if it's too much development work to close the gap, but Newey can work wonders.
Newey can do nothing about the lack of power from the engine which is where most of the time is being lost. I keep hearing this line about the others cactching up. This Mercedes team is not Brawn GP who essentially ran out of money as the season went on yet still won the championship. This is Mercedes Benz with some of the best brains in F1 with more financial clout than any other team if required. Remember the car was quick last year but ate its rear tyres during the races, this years car is easy on its tyres. The other teams in my opinion will not catch Mercedes this season.
It will be a 1-2 in China again with that long straight. Monaco last year should have been a 1-2, Silvesrtone,Hungary,Italy should also be a given with there power. I cant see where they will be weak.
It will be a 1-2 in China again with that long straight. Monaco last year should have been a 1-2, Silvesrtone,Hungary,Italy should also be a given with there power. I cant see where they will be weak.
Edited by Wanta996Gotta on Monday 7th April 09:38
Gaz. said:
RBR have made gains hand over fist and they are going to be mighty in Catalunya & Monaco. Since 2007 RBR have out developed Brackley once the season has commenced and they aren't going to forget how to make a fast car.
I can't help but wonder how Merc's packaging advantage here will allow them to focus very specifically on areas like tyre-life and pure aero. Teams with a 1-2 second pace disadvantage may well have too broad a focus. If RBR have some significant aero advantages right now maybe the copying that goes on will mitigate some of that advantage.The great thing for Merc is that the other teams arn't complaining about some 'magic part on the car' and trying to ban it, and can't copy it! It just seems to be the whole package, amazing.
I just pray they let the two drivers race like yesterday, all the way to the final grand prix.
I just pray they let the two drivers race like yesterday, all the way to the final grand prix.
Gaz. said:
That's a really good point actually. Was 2008 the last time there wasn't some kind of 'unfair advantage' or legal loop hole? The Mercedes doesn't seem to have any silver bullets, the concept of which appeared to blind Mclaren with various gimmicks like the F-duct, U-pods, pull rods, dragon fly wishbones etc.
- yet*
Gaz. said:
IainT said:
Not sure that last year's RBR was controversial.
Rumours of traction control linked to KERS was the main one.Wasn't that all put down to clever mapping by most rational commentators?
Gaz. said:
Most rational people were scratching their heads and didn't even know where to start (myself included).
Not saying they weren't cheating but, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, you have to assume they weren't. The checks from teh scrutineers and peer snooping would make it less likely now than at any point previously.It's certainly possible, great car, great drivers who seem able to race hard without crashing into each other and almost as importantly not spit the dummy when they're on the second step.
Other teams will of course chase them, but it's not like Merc are going to declare 2014 JD and send all but the pit crew on Holiday till next Feb.
Personally I don't see their competition coming from RB, not this year, if Sky is to be believed Mercedes have a fundamental advantage by splitting their turbo into two halves ether end of the engine and Renault / Ferrari cannot copy it, it's not like Brawns Double Defuser that only a HD free-frame and some tunnel testing away - the engines have been homologated, that's it - done for 2014 and the advantages are huge - Merc engine cars can run more power than the rest, whilst using less fuel and needing less cooling to do it.
No, if anyone catches Merc this year it'll be one of the other Mercedes Engine teams.
Other teams will of course chase them, but it's not like Merc are going to declare 2014 JD and send all but the pit crew on Holiday till next Feb.
Personally I don't see their competition coming from RB, not this year, if Sky is to be believed Mercedes have a fundamental advantage by splitting their turbo into two halves ether end of the engine and Renault / Ferrari cannot copy it, it's not like Brawns Double Defuser that only a HD free-frame and some tunnel testing away - the engines have been homologated, that's it - done for 2014 and the advantages are huge - Merc engine cars can run more power than the rest, whilst using less fuel and needing less cooling to do it.
No, if anyone catches Merc this year it'll be one of the other Mercedes Engine teams.
The Red Bull is still mighty quick in the corners though and has been since pre season testing. Sure I recall both JB and FA saying during pre season testing that they had been overtaken round the outside of corners by DR, suggesting plenty of downforce is available from that aero package.
Coupled with DR's apparent appetite for racing hard, I wouldn't count them out for a sneaky win or two.
Coupled with DR's apparent appetite for racing hard, I wouldn't count them out for a sneaky win or two.
Gaz. said:
They aren't that far behind the rest. In qualifying RBR are the second fastest team,
Do we really think Merc allowed drivers to use the full all-out setting in Q3? I suspect they had so much in hand the drivers qualified at the 9/10 setting .Even while fighting each other and running off the track there where pulling 2seconds/lap on the field, had either been alone at the front they'd have purposefully crept away at 0.5sec/lap, given the nod from the pitwall and no-one to fight I wonder if Hamilton couldn't have pulled out 30seconds or more in the last 10laps.
No doubt everyone will catch up to some degree but with Merc developing as well throughout the year can we really expect even RBR to find 4-6sec/lap? Enough to eclipse Merc and their development plans.
not so sure about that, Bahrain is very much a point and squirt cct, which exaggerates the difference in engines
the red bull is clearly faster in mid and high speed corners, by some way, they only need to reduce the power deficit and they will be right up there, they have been on the front row of the grid already.
the red bull is clearly faster in mid and high speed corners, by some way, they only need to reduce the power deficit and they will be right up there, they have been on the front row of the grid already.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff