Mercedes 2014 clean sweep?

Mercedes 2014 clean sweep?

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Wanta996Gotta

5,622 posts

207 months

Monday 7th April 2014
quotequote all
Scuffers said:
not so sure about that, Bahrain is very much a point and squirt cct, which exaggerates the difference in engines

the red bull is clearly faster in mid and high speed corners, by some way, they only need to reduce the power deficit and they will be right up there, they have been on the front row of the grid already.
What makes you think the Redbull is quicker around corners than the Mercedes? I cant think of any track that has shown this to be true?? I can however think of at least another 5 Point and Squirt tracks as you put it that Redbull wont stand a chance in going by there current flat out speed.

Mercedes have the brains and the financial backing to at the very least develop there car as quickly as the Redbull. The lead they pulled out after safety car showed me that if anything they are getting quicker.

Wanta996Gotta

5,622 posts

207 months

Monday 7th April 2014
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Gaz. said:
Didn't RBR match Mercedes in sector 2 of Sepang & Sakhir? They weren't far off in sector 2 & 3 of Albert Park either.

All the drivers of the top teams have commented on the RB10's cornering ability.
Yes, match or get close to the Mercedes sector times. Poster said the Redbull was by far the quickest around long/mid range corners which is not infact true.

simonpeter

188 posts

159 months

Monday 7th April 2014
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Adrian Newey is complaining that we now have a powersource dominated F1. He would of cause, never troubled him having an aero dominated F1. He has a point about the Mercedes advantage however, the BBC gave the speeds at the start finish line showing the acceleration out of corners, the Mercedes engined cars topped the list by up to 5mph. Multiply that from every corner and you can see that the Mercedes powertrain is way ahead. 1988 part 2, very likely. Like others have said, without testing the Ferrari and Renault powered cars are going to be bit part players.

Wanta996Gotta

5,622 posts

207 months

Monday 7th April 2014
quotequote all
Gaz. said:
Wanta996Gotta said:
Yes, match or get close to the Mercedes sector times. Poster said the Redbull was by far the quickest around long/mid range corners which is not infact true.
Given that all sectors mentioned have medium/fast corners linked by decent straights or traction zones, RBR must be making the time up somewhere. I think their power deficit is vastly overplayed but their chassis is very sound.
Making up time on who? If you watched the race or races in 2014 so far. The Rebull is "not making up time" on the Mercedes at any point in any of the races. Vettel and Ricciardo were left after 2 laps in Malaysia. On lap 19 when Vettel got close, Rosberg put his foot down and made a 5 second gap in 3-4 laps. The speed of the Mercedes after the safety car showed everyone where the Mercedes is compared to the rest of the field.(And bare in mind they were both squabbling and fighting along the way,they could have went quicker)

And who is to say that Mercedes cant work on the Aero if they think they actually need to considering the speed of the the thing.

Wanta996Gotta

5,622 posts

207 months

Monday 7th April 2014
quotequote all
Gaz. said:
Jesus this isn't worth the effort for something that has no reward, points or prizes:



You win, I lose, you get to sing the 'I was right' song.
lol, fair enough. Still early in the season i guess. Lets re-look at this come Canada??

_Batty_

12,268 posts

250 months

Monday 7th April 2014
quotequote all
Wanta996Gotta said:
lol, fair enough. Still early in the season i guess. Lets re-look at this come Canada??
From Sky:
said:
The middle sector of the Sepang track mainly comprises fast, long-duration turns that punish any relative lack of downforce hard. If we look to the best times set through there in Sunday's race - taking the fastest time as 100% and relating the deficit of the others by percentage - we get the following picture:

1. Mercedes - 100%.
2. Red Bull - 100.31.
3. Ferrari - 101.44.
4. Williams - 102.55.
5. Toro Rosso - 102.78.
6. McLaren - 103.02.
7. Lotus - 103.16.
8. Force India - 104.05.
9. Sauber - 104.99.
10. Caterham - 105.47.
11. Marussia - 105.48.

Wanta996Gotta

5,622 posts

207 months

Monday 7th April 2014
quotequote all
_Batty_ said:
Wanta996Gotta said:
lol, fair enough. Still early in the season i guess. Lets re-look at this come Canada??
From Sky:
said:
The middle sector of the Sepang track mainly comprises fast, long-duration turns that punish any relative lack of downforce hard. If we look to the best times set through there in Sunday's race - taking the fastest time as 100% and relating the deficit of the others by percentage - we get the following picture:

1. Mercedes - 100%.
2. Red Bull - 100.31.
3. Ferrari - 101.44.
4. Williams - 102.55.
5. Toro Rosso - 102.78.
6. McLaren - 103.02.
7. Lotus - 103.16.
8. Force India - 104.05.
9. Sauber - 104.99.
10. Caterham - 105.47.
11. Marussia - 105.48.
So the Mercedes has the best/close to the best downforce and power unit. This makes Ferrari's issues seem 100% engine related which is remarkable seeing that they are an engine manufacturer.

I think i heard Alonso on radio saying they didnt have enough power at one point and Kimi mentioned it being like in a different class of cars in an interview after the race - http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/9254071/Kimi-...

Scuffers

20,887 posts

274 months

Monday 7th April 2014
quotequote all
Wanta996Gotta said:
So the Mercedes has the best/close to the best downforce and power unit. This makes Ferrari's issues seem 100% engine related which is remarkable seeing that they are an engine manufacturer.
not sure I would interpret it as that?

that sector must require power at some point, so unless you can divorce power from the times, it's always going to help if you have more, and as we are pretty much certain that the Merc engine is the most powerful, to match (or get dam close to) the same sector time I would suggest means your corner speeds must be better at some point?




Wanta996Gotta

5,622 posts

207 months

Monday 7th April 2014
quotequote all
Scuffers said:
Wanta996Gotta said:
So the Mercedes has the best/close to the best downforce and power unit. This makes Ferrari's issues seem 100% engine related which is remarkable seeing that they are an engine manufacturer.
not sure I would interpret it as that?

that sector must require power at some point, so unless you can divorce power from the times, it's always going to help if you have more, and as we are pretty much certain that the Merc engine is the most powerful, to match (or get dam close to) the same sector time I would suggest means your corner speeds must be better at some point?
A valid point but sector 2 doesnt really give you the opportunity to floor it as it is a very windy/curvy technical part of the track but i do see your point. http://www.formula1.com/races/in_detail/bahrain_91...

Scuffers

20,887 posts

274 months

Monday 7th April 2014
quotequote all
Wanta996Gotta said:
Scuffers said:
Wanta996Gotta said:
So the Mercedes has the best/close to the best downforce and power unit. This makes Ferrari's issues seem 100% engine related which is remarkable seeing that they are an engine manufacturer.
not sure I would interpret it as that?

that sector must require power at some point, so unless you can divorce power from the times, it's always going to help if you have more, and as we are pretty much certain that the Merc engine is the most powerful, to match (or get dam close to) the same sector time I would suggest means your corner speeds must be better at some point?
A valid point but sector 2 doesnt really give you the opportunity to floor it as it is a very windy/curvy technical part of the track but i do see your point. http://www.formula1.com/races/in_detail/bahrain_91...
the back straight in in sector 2 (turn 10 to 11), that's going to make quite a difference to the sector time if you have more power along with it also being a DRS zone (which the Merc will have had for Rosburg when he set the laptime)

revrange

1,182 posts

184 months

Tuesday 8th April 2014
quotequote all
I am not sure how much times from the first two races can be read into as Merc i don't think were running flat out,they did on Sunday for 10 laps and the rest of the field didn't see which way they went.

Now the track favoured them, but even still they have a healthy advantage.

Teams will be hopping the Barcelona packages close the gap, if they don't most will switch focus to next years car.

JB!

5,254 posts

180 months

Tuesday 8th April 2014
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My fantasy team is now;

Hamilton
Rosberg
Riccardo
Massa

with Merc and Williams providing chassis points, Merc engine points and Canada as my bonus race.

I think the Merc powered cars will dominate, I hope Honda bring something special to the party for MCL next season.

Bradgate

Original Poster:

2,823 posts

147 months

Tuesday 8th April 2014
quotequote all
revrange said:
I am not sure how much times from the first two races can be read into as Merc i don't think were running flat out,they did on Sunday for 10 laps and the rest of the field didn't see which way they went.

Now the track favoured them, but even still they have a healthy advantage.

Teams will be hopping the Barcelona packages close the gap, if they don't most will switch focus to next years car.
yes

Mercedes’ fastest lap on Sunday was 1.37.0. Next fastest car was the Force India at 1.38.8. The fastest lap by a non-Mercedes powered car was 1.39.2 by Ricciardo.

Red Bull’s advantage in the second half of last season when they won 9 consecutive races was approx. 0.5s per lap, so Mercedes’ 1.8s gap is an absolutely vast margin. Mercedes are not just ahead, they are racing in a different category.

Given that the engine spec is now frozen for the year, the Renault and Ferrari powered teams probably can’t catch Mercedes, so it’s up to Williams, FI and McLaren, in particular, to try to challenge the Mercs.


Scuffers

20,887 posts

274 months

Tuesday 8th April 2014
quotequote all
not as simple as that.

how did Red Bull get on the front row of the grid last time out?

look, I am not saying that last weekend, Merc did not have a lot in hand, but that (engine) advantage will not last long, and Renault do not need to match it for red bull to be on the pace...

AlexS

1,551 posts

232 months

Tuesday 8th April 2014
quotequote all
Scuffers said:
not as simple as that.

how did Red Bull get on the front row of the grid last time out?

look, I am not saying that last weekend, Merc did not have a lot in hand, but that (engine) advantage will not last long, and Renault do not need to match it for red bull to be on the pace...
I seem to remember that the rain helped somewhat. In the dry the Mercedes was faster in all 3 sectors of the track, including the twiddly one where the RBR down force would have helped.

Walford

2,259 posts

166 months

Tuesday 8th April 2014
quotequote all
JB! said:
I think the Merc powered cars will dominate, I hope Honda bring something special to the party for MCL next season.
MCL allready got merc power, so power not the problem

JB!

5,254 posts

180 months

Tuesday 8th April 2014
quotequote all
Walford said:
MCL allready got merc power, so power not the problem
Next season. if I were MCL I'd be developing the 2015 car from 1/3rd the way in. being the only team to use that Honda lump means you HAVE to turn it into an advantage, the car has to work well with the new powerplant.

Scuffers

20,887 posts

274 months

Tuesday 8th April 2014
quotequote all
AlexS said:
Scuffers said:
not as simple as that.

how did Red Bull get on the front row of the grid last time out?

look, I am not saying that last weekend, Merc did not have a lot in hand, but that (engine) advantage will not last long, and Renault do not need to match it for red bull to be on the pace...
I seem to remember that the rain helped somewhat. In the dry the Mercedes was faster in all 3 sectors of the track, including the twiddly one where the RBR down force would have helped.
my point exactly, wet = less ability to use more power for the merc's, RB right up there.

IainT

10,040 posts

238 months

Thursday 24th April 2014
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Interesting bit of punditry on the Sky F1 Midweek Report...

One of the journalists on the panel was reporting rumours that Merc have significant upgrades that they're not going to bring out simply because they have such an advantage.

Doesn't bode well for the competition if Merc have that much in hand and the capability to keep the lead without breaking sweat...