Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5
Discussion
iphonedyou said:
Nuclear Biscuit said:
Who then funds the pensions of these immigrants when they reach retirement? Ever increasing numbers of immigrants? Exponential population growth to support a ponzi scheme is madness.
I keep seeing this mentioned (more people in at the start to pay for those at the end) and thought it sounded like a ponzi myself. Can PCVdriver please explain how this can continue in perpetuity?
It's strange, a few months back I had a big leaflet through the door from the YeSNP going on about how all these countries have become independent, since WW2 and not a single one has wanted to go back. Then the small matter of Crimea happened, and suddenly a big part of Ukraine is regretting independence. Perhaps a few areas of Scotland might feel they are more British than Scottish?
Alpacaman said:
It's strange, a few months back I had a big leaflet through the door from the YeSNP going on about how all these countries have become independent, since WW2 and not a single one has wanted to go back. Then the small matter of Crimea happened, and suddenly a big part of Ukraine is regretting independence. Perhaps a few areas of Scotland might feel they are more British than Scottish?
If someone from the SNP had knocked on my door with that message I would have laughed in his face.Firstly, it blithely sweeps over the issues of the breakdown of the old European empires and the forced independence of nation states on the back of a devastating world war. The leaflet seems to be ignorant that perhaps the most significant outcome of the decades after WW2, was the desire of the newly independent countries to seek political and federal union. This is the driving force behind the EU. In other words, the EU is a boat that is rowing in precisely the opposite direction to Scottish Nationalist thinking.
Bloody clowns. Either they are genuinely stupid or they are dangerously manipulative and duplicitous.
toppstuff said:
Alpacaman said:
It's strange, a few months back I had a big leaflet through the door from the YeSNP going on about how all these countries have become independent, since WW2 and not a single one has wanted to go back. Then the small matter of Crimea happened, and suddenly a big part of Ukraine is regretting independence. Perhaps a few areas of Scotland might feel they are more British than Scottish?
If someone from the SNP had knocked on my door with that message I would have laughed in his face.Firstly, it blithely sweeps over the issues of the breakdown of the old European empires and the forced independence of nation states on the back of a devastating world war. The leaflet seems to be ignorant that perhaps the most significant outcome of the decades after WW2, was the desire of the newly independent countries to seek political and federal union. This is the driving force behind the EU. In other words, the EU is a boat that is rowing in precisely the opposite direction to Scottish Nationalist thinking.
Bloody clowns. Either they are genuinely stupid or they are dangerously manipulative and duplicitous.
McWigglebum4th said:
toppstuff said:
Alpacaman said:
It's strange, a few months back I had a big leaflet through the door from the YeSNP going on about how all these countries have become independent, since WW2 and not a single one has wanted to go back. Then the small matter of Crimea happened, and suddenly a big part of Ukraine is regretting independence. Perhaps a few areas of Scotland might feel they are more British than Scottish?
If someone from the SNP had knocked on my door with that message I would have laughed in his face.Firstly, it blithely sweeps over the issues of the breakdown of the old European empires and the forced independence of nation states on the back of a devastating world war. The leaflet seems to be ignorant that perhaps the most significant outcome of the decades after WW2, was the desire of the newly independent countries to seek political and federal union. This is the driving force behind the EU. In other words, the EU is a boat that is rowing in precisely the opposite direction to Scottish Nationalist thinking.
Bloody clowns. Either they are genuinely stupid or they are dangerously manipulative and duplicitous.
Given that the stated and unequivocal goal of the EU is both economic and political union, is that not precisely the opposite of what the SNP wants?
Can we therefore take from this that Scottish people are so stupid, so blind in their hatred for Westminster, that they would gladly swap Westminster for Brussels? Really?!
I really wish I lived in Scotland now. Just so that some SNP mook can knock on my door - I want to see their heads explode in the face of simple, logical questions. Questions that they have no logical or rational answers for..
How can Scotland reject one union, only to willingly want to embrace an even larger union that is on the road toward federalism from Brussels?
Edited by toppstuff on Wednesday 16th April 15:26
bullies180 said:
This is just a total lie.He has no basis or credibility to say this, whilst all the evidence confirms it is balls.
Sad to hear that deluded young Thales chap bleating about the warnings from Hammond. What does he expect? Not to be warned? He should be angry at the SNP for blatant lying over the realities of independence, not some poor sod from the rUK who is having to point out the massive friggin holes and nonsense in the white paper.
Independence = defence contracts go to rUK. Cost = billions to Scots economy. Many of those employed would move with the jobs I predict.
///ajd said:
This is just a total lie.
He has no basis or credibility to say this, whilst all the evidence confirms it is balls.
Sad to hear that deluded young Thales chap bleating about the warnings from Hammond. What does he expect? Not to be warned? He should be angry at the SNP for blatant lying over the realities of independence, not some poor sod from the rUK who is having to point out the massive friggin holes and nonsense in the white paper.
Independence = defence contracts go to rUK. Cost = billions to Scots economy. Many of those employed would move with the jobs I predict.
To be fair an independant Scotland would retian some Naval vessels which would need to be serviced and maintianed and one assumes in the long term it would need to buy or build its own defence equipment. So jobs would be lost but also created to fill a vacume.....however as always to add a element of reality to this defence hardware is expensive even small items such as the SA80 cost around £1,160 each without the advanced sighty (SUSAT) and an upgrade to the A2 model cost a further £400 (all numbers via Wiki so happy to be told I am wrong). So Scotland get some of the RN boats and equipment and then need to replace them in next 10 years how much will this cost and will loosing economies of scale as part of the UK make defence a real burden.He has no basis or credibility to say this, whilst all the evidence confirms it is balls.
Sad to hear that deluded young Thales chap bleating about the warnings from Hammond. What does he expect? Not to be warned? He should be angry at the SNP for blatant lying over the realities of independence, not some poor sod from the rUK who is having to point out the massive friggin holes and nonsense in the white paper.
Independence = defence contracts go to rUK. Cost = billions to Scots economy. Many of those employed would move with the jobs I predict.
///ajd said:
bullies180 said:
This is just a total lie.He has no basis or credibility to say this, whilst all the evidence confirms it is balls.
Sad to hear that deluded young Thales chap bleating about the warnings from Hammond. What does he expect? Not to be warned? He should be angry at the SNP for blatant lying over the realities of independence, not some poor sod from the rUK who is having to point out the massive friggin holes and nonsense in the white paper.
Independence = defence contracts go to rUK. Cost = billions to Scots economy. Many of those employed would move with the jobs I predict.
The thing Salmond & the Yes-ers are economic with is the truth unfortunately.
The reality is everything he thinks can and will happen is entirely dependent on the agreement of what will be foreign governments and organisations who are not bound to act in his or Scotland's interests.
Alpacaman said:
I did ask a while back why the SNP were so keen to be in a European Union with all the regulations that come from Brussels but not the UK. Strangely there was a deafening silence.
I expect the reality is that the SNP think they'll get to choose all the good bits of the UK and EU and jettison all the bits they dislike onto the rUK. It is this selfish attitude that I really find objectionable. It is just a shame that so many of our current countryman north of the border may get saddled with these clowns in Government and the damage that will be done to their futures. I would imagine that many of Scotland's brightest (high tax payers) will migrate south or go further afield to live their lives and the number of bludgers that will remain will sorely test Salmond's welfare state.Borghetto said:
Alpacaman said:
I did ask a while back why the SNP were so keen to be in a European Union with all the regulations that come from Brussels but not the UK. Strangely there was a deafening silence.
I expect the reality is that the SNP think they'll get to choose all the good bits of the UK and EU and jettison all the bits they dislike onto the rUK. It is this selfish attitude that I really find objectionable. It is just a shame that so many of our current countryman north of the border may get saddled with these clowns in Government and the damage that will be done to their futures. I would imagine that many of Scotland's brightest (high tax payers) will migrate south or go further afield to live their lives and the number of bludgers that will remain will sorely test Salmond's welfare state.As has been repeatedly pointed out, they also need to tell people what "plan B" is. The truly frightening thing is that they appear to have no plan B.
Anybody who went into something like this without any form of contingency or options to deal with a whole variety of issues would be an absolute f
kwit at best - and that's being polite about it.Rollin said:
Is it only no voters that get to retain their UK passport?
Will anyone have their passport taken off them? I doubt it to start with. Its not normally illegal to have dual nationality.What taxes that you pay & where you pay them is dependent on where you live (unless you are an American whereby the IRS seems to think it has a right to know what you earn outside of the USA) so that's not determined by citizenship.
Having said that, the rUK may well wish to shut the door & strip UK citizenship from Scots that stay in Scotland post independence in order to prevent a mass migration southwards when it all goes tits up!
Wombat3 said:
As has been repeatedly pointed out, they also need to tell people what "plan B" is. The truly frightening thing is that they appear to have no plan B.
Anybody who went into something like this without any form of contingency or options to deal with a whole variety of issues would be an absolute fkwit at best - and that's being polite about it.
So Fluff, Burger, PCV (Viper Pict) any of you got a suggestion (a factual answer might be impossible at this stage). Seems to me lots of facts from the No Camp are just brushed off by the Yes camp in the belief it will be sorted out so Plan A works post yes vote but as I an others have said why would we act in the best interest of a foreign nationAnybody who went into something like this without any form of contingency or options to deal with a whole variety of issues would be an absolute f
kwit at best - and that's being polite about it.Why is it in the best interests of the UK when we do more trade with the EU or US, why sahred defense when we are cutting defense spending and have jobs to fill in the UK. Why share consulates, why agree a vote into the EU when a nation has shown it does not act in the best interests of the UK. Why share our securitys services when Scotland would become a foreign nation. It does not make sense for the UK but I see the plus for Scotland.
Say what you like but big Eck is assuming the debt and the nukes are bigger barganing chips than they really are.
Gecko1978 said:
So Fluff, Burger, PCV (Viper Pict) any of you got a suggestion (a factual answer might be impossible at this stage). Seems to me lots of facts from the No Camp are just brushed off by the Yes camp in the belief it will be sorted out so Plan A works post yes vote but as I an others have said why would we act in the best interest of a foreign nation
Why is it in the best interests of the UK when we do more trade with the EU or US, why sahred defense when we are cutting defense spending and have jobs to fill in the UK. Why share consulates, why agree a vote into the EU when a nation has shown it does not act in the best interests of the UK. Why share our securitys services when Scotland would become a foreign nation. It does not make sense for the UK but I see the plus for Scotland.
Say what you like but big Eck is assuming the debt and the nukes are bigger barganing chips than they really are.
The reality is they are not bargaining chips at all.Why is it in the best interests of the UK when we do more trade with the EU or US, why sahred defense when we are cutting defense spending and have jobs to fill in the UK. Why share consulates, why agree a vote into the EU when a nation has shown it does not act in the best interests of the UK. Why share our securitys services when Scotland would become a foreign nation. It does not make sense for the UK but I see the plus for Scotland.
Say what you like but big Eck is assuming the debt and the nukes are bigger barganing chips than they really are.
The Nukes will stay as long as it takes to deal with them. Any face-painted f
kwit who tries to interfere with them is likely to end up very dead. That is the reality. These are serious things, you do not fk about with them.As to the debt, if they walk away from it they would be idiots. The immediate costs (to them) will be high (borrowing costs), the long term costs far higher still. If they try & pull that stunt on the rUK they will get f
ked over for generations. Scotland needs the rUK far more than the rUK needs Scotland. Its not a threat, its just the reality of two countries where one has a population (and wealth) of over 10 times the other.
Wombat3 said:
The Nukes will stay as long as it takes to deal with them. Any face-painted fkwit who tries to interfere with them is likely to end up very dead. That is the reality. These are serious things, you do not fk about with them.
I suspect though can not prove this or offer any support to it that the storage facility and the sub base may remain part of the UK like say Diago Garcia air base or GITMO in cuba the US hold onto. So the SNP have a Nuke free scotland and the sub base is just a british overseas teritory which we pay a fee to Scotland for acess to each year.kwit who tries to interfere with them is likely to end up very dead. That is the reality. These are serious things, you do not fk about with them.Or we just say they are staying put we are not moving them and there is F all you can do about it....
Gecko1978 said:
///ajd said:
This is just a total lie.
He has no basis or credibility to say this, whilst all the evidence confirms it is balls.
Sad to hear that deluded young Thales chap bleating about the warnings from Hammond. What does he expect? Not to be warned? He should be angry at the SNP for blatant lying over the realities of independence, not some poor sod from the rUK who is having to point out the massive friggin holes and nonsense in the white paper.
Independence = defence contracts go to rUK. Cost = billions to Scots economy. Many of those employed would move with the jobs I predict.
To be fair an independant Scotland would retian some Naval vessels which would need to be serviced and maintianed and one assumes in the long term it would need to buy or build its own defence equipment. So jobs would be lost but also created to fill a vacume.....however as always to add a element of reality to this defence hardware is expensive even small items such as the SA80 cost around £1,160 each without the advanced sighty (SUSAT) and an upgrade to the A2 model cost a further £400 (all numbers via Wiki so happy to be told I am wrong). So Scotland get some of the RN boats and equipment and then need to replace them in next 10 years how much will this cost and will loosing economies of scale as part of the UK make defence a real burden.He has no basis or credibility to say this, whilst all the evidence confirms it is balls.
Sad to hear that deluded young Thales chap bleating about the warnings from Hammond. What does he expect? Not to be warned? He should be angry at the SNP for blatant lying over the realities of independence, not some poor sod from the rUK who is having to point out the massive friggin holes and nonsense in the white paper.
Independence = defence contracts go to rUK. Cost = billions to Scots economy. Many of those employed would move with the jobs I predict.
Just on a wee PH note, was having a think how great it is that us Scottish residents can go all over the UK and have a single market for buying and selling cars. A quick check on Autotrader shows 400,000 cars for sale, but if I do 100 miles from my house (roughly Scotland) there's less than 10% of that.
Plus the fact, we have 10x the market to sell to in terms of drivers in the rest of the UK, instead of just Scottish residents.
Also, what'll happen to private registrations assigned in Scotland just now when we no longer have the DVLA?
Plus the fact, we have 10x the market to sell to in terms of drivers in the rest of the UK, instead of just Scottish residents.
Also, what'll happen to private registrations assigned in Scotland just now when we no longer have the DVLA?
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