Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5

Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5

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Alfa numeric

3,021 posts

178 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
OpulentBob said:
OT.
Guys, why is the word "Viper" so associated with Scotland/Scots? There appears to be many PHers with that as a part of their username, and they appear to be mostly Scots. (ViperPict is the obvious one within this thread, but I've seen it elsewhere) Is there an old TV reference or something?
I can't speak for the rest of them but Viperpict is someone who considers himself to be of Pictish descent and owns a rather nice Viper.

From his profile:


anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
Alfa numeric said:
OpulentBob said:
OT.
Guys, why is the word "Viper" so associated with Scotland/Scots? There appears to be many PHers with that as a part of their username, and they appear to be mostly Scots. (ViperPict is the obvious one within this thread, but I've seen it elsewhere) Is there an old TV reference or something?
I can't speak for the rest of them but Viperpict is someone who considers himself to be of Pictish descent and owns a rather nice Viper.

From his profile:

Nice. Ta. I've obviously seen it and put 2 and 2 together and come up with 13!

Neonblau

875 posts

132 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
pcvdriver said:
It's not a case of enumerating the many decisions, but more the fact of the very principle that we currently have to ask to do so from Westminster, that does not sit well with me. So I welcome an independent Scotland that is free from any such encumbrances.
So it's none then. You do realise that at present around 75% of all legislation comes from Brussels?

If as the SNP would have us believe, Scotland marches straight into the EU then that percentage will only increase as an iScotland won't have anything like the clout the UK has to engineer opt outs.

You'll also find that all your fiscal and monetary policy is handed to you by Frankfurt or London depending on which half arsed currency option is chosen and you'll have no voice there either. Depending on circumstances you may find that as the sole oil producer your monetary policy requirements put you at odds with all the other members - guess who'll get their way?

As far as your comment above about not increasing income taxes goes the mask's dropped and it shows this really is about increasing taxes in an iScotland and about pissing off the English/Westminster/Tories.

Here's a thought - why not lower income tax now and really the piss the English/Westminster/Tory bds off?



steveatesh

4,893 posts

163 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
OpulentBob said:
Nice. Ta. I've obviously seen it and put 2 and 2 together and come up with 13!
You're the finance advisor to the SNP aren't you? Do I get my £5.00? :-)

Borghetto

3,274 posts

182 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
This is going to give the US Govt a warm feeling towards Scotland: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west...

Gecko1978

9,600 posts

156 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
IroningMan said:
pcvdriver said:
Gecko1978 said:
Divorce is messy no one wins and the costs are huge, remaining friends afterwards because its best for one side or the other is a pipe dream.
Divorce, can indeed be messy, expensive and acrimonious, but it needn't be. To use an oft quote PH expression "Just think of the children"..... Only the bat-st crazy go for all out war in divorces. The more pragmatic go for mutual acceptance that the marriage is over and work together, in order not to have the children have to, or want to choose between their parents.
That's code for 'just be reasonable and give us everything we're asking for'.

There are no children in this case.
If the Union ends, (I hope it does not but respect your right to choose) then fine but as a tax payer, voter, stake holder in the remianing union I am suddenly not going to give two sts about scotland, its economic interests, its people etc Simply then I am going
to be concered about my, my familys my countrys future, an if the best deal means not agreeing to things that benefit a now foreign country I am going to vote for the party that offers me the best deal not scotland.

Stay with us then I am happy to give Scotland its own parliment a budget that works on a different formula perhaps even more devolved powers, bail out its banks provide united defense accept a different legal and education system and the fact that some benfits are greater north of the boarder i.e. free perscriptions etc. Because thats a union working together but understanding different needs. If you leave I see no reason to give any of that a second thought.

alock

4,224 posts

210 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
I expect all mortgages on Scottish property would be automatically converted to the new Scottish currency form its date of issue. No mortgagee would want to run the FX risk.
The definition of 'mortgagee' is the lender. Is this what you meant?

I would have thought the mortgagee would rather keep the book value in the more stable currency? They're more likely to lose money by transferring the debt to a new currency. The borrower is more likely to want to change to the currency they are now being paid in.
Unfortunately this is plan B which the SNP don't want to discuss. I wonder why?

Gecko1978

9,600 posts

156 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
Neonblau said:
pcvdriver said:
It's not a case of enumerating the many decisions, but more the fact of the very principle that we currently have to ask to do so from Westminster, that does not sit well with me. So I welcome an independent Scotland that is free from any such encumbrances.
So it's none then. You do realise that at present around 75% of all legislation comes from Brussels?

If as the SNP would have us believe, Scotland marches straight into the EU then that percentage will only increase as an iScotland won't have anything like the clout the UK has to engineer opt outs.

You'll also find that all your fiscal and monetary policy is handed to you by Frankfurt or London depending on which half arsed currency option is chosen and you'll have no voice there either. Depending on circumstances you may find that as the sole oil producer your monetary policy requirements put you at odds with all the other members - guess who'll get their way?

As far as your comment above about not increasing income taxes goes the mask's dropped and it shows this really is about increasing taxes in an iScotland and about pissing off the English/Westminster/Tories.

Here's a thought - why not lower income tax now and really the piss the English/Westminster/Tory bds off?
Its funny when people say we have to ask westminster, when Parliment is made up of representatives across the land all agreeing common goals, whihc of course mean compromise. So living near London I would like the Southeast not to subsidise the rest of the UK. But of course thats utter madness and not democratic so instead money is spread across the land equally. now Scotland may have at times paid out more in tax's and got less in spending but again it comes down to need. Scotland did not object when its two banks were bailed out (actually many people might have done though I suspect if they had seen there savings vanish over night might have changed there tune).

Democracy means you might not always get exactly what you want but you never get something everybody does not want. Even when Mrs T was in power her own party rebelled when things were not right same under Blair. Together we achive much and that's a really good thing.

NoNeed

15,137 posts

199 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
pcvdriver said:
It's not a case of enumerating the many decisions, but more the fact of the very principle that we currently have to ask to do so from Westminster, that does not sit well with me. So I welcome an independent Scotland that is free from any such encumbrances.
But you are in favour of a currency union!!!


You do know that would involve a joint monetary policy don't you. You know where limits are set on spending and borrowing and other stuff such as interest rates.

That would involve seeking permission form the other if you want to operate outside of those set limits no matter how good the cause.

This is why I don't think there would ever be a currency union as I don't believe Westminster would like a small neighbouring country no matter how friendly to be deciding it's monetary policies, it rejected Europe's attempt at the same thing and they are far more valuable to the UK than what Scotland would be.

But back to the point, you may find that Westminster could interfere even more with a union that what they bother to now, how is that independence? And how would you be free if there was a union?

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
Just seeing on sky news RAF typhoons scrambled to Scotland as there is a Russian military plane or more than one in our territory.

So you think we need no defence spending? Our military should have even more spent on it and trident replacement is a must.


Imagine Putin laughing at some rubber craft bumping up against a destroyer or no airforce.

dodgyviper

1,197 posts

237 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
OpulentBob said:
OT.
Guys, why is the word "Viper" so associated with Scotland/Scots? There appears to be many PHers with that as a part of their username, and they appear to be mostly Scots. (ViperPict is the obvious one within this thread, but I've seen it elsewhere) Is there an old TV reference or something?
Erm I'm English

Wombat3

11,962 posts

205 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
Gecko1978 said:
Neonblau said:
pcvdriver said:
It's not a case of enumerating the many decisions, but more the fact of the very principle that we currently have to ask to do so from Westminster, that does not sit well with me. So I welcome an independent Scotland that is free from any such encumbrances.
So it's none then. You do realise that at present around 75% of all legislation comes from Brussels?

If as the SNP would have us believe, Scotland marches straight into the EU then that percentage will only increase as an iScotland won't have anything like the clout the UK has to engineer opt outs.

You'll also find that all your fiscal and monetary policy is handed to you by Frankfurt or London depending on which half arsed currency option is chosen and you'll have no voice there either. Depending on circumstances you may find that as the sole oil producer your monetary policy requirements put you at odds with all the other members - guess who'll get their way?

As far as your comment above about not increasing income taxes goes the mask's dropped and it shows this really is about increasing taxes in an iScotland and about pissing off the English/Westminster/Tories.

Here's a thought - why not lower income tax now and really the piss the English/Westminster/Tory bds off?
Its funny when people say we have to ask westminster, when Parliment is made up of representatives across the land all agreeing common goals, whihc of course mean compromise. So living near London I would like the Southeast not to subsidise the rest of the UK. But of course thats utter madness and not democratic so instead money is spread across the land equally. now Scotland may have at times paid out more in tax's and got less in spending but again it comes down to need. Scotland did not object when its two banks were bailed out (actually many people might have done though I suspect if they had seen there savings vanish over night might have changed there tune).

Democracy means you might not always get exactly what you want but you never get something everybody does not want. Even when Mrs T was in power her own party rebelled when things were not right same under Blair. Together we achive much and that's a really good thing.
Spot on - Scotland may well not have voted for a Tory Gov't - but then the South East didn't vote for 13 years of the idiots Bliar & Brooon...

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
Wombat3 said:
Spot on - Scotland may well not have voted for a Tory Gov't - but then the South East didn't vote for 13 years of the idiots Bliar & Brooon...
Also no one in the UK voted for the current govt (but overall they are doing a rather good job especially given he hand they were dealt)

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
Also no one in the UK voted for the current govt (but overall they are doing a rather good job especially given he hand they were dealt)
And the northern isles (with all their oil) didnae vote SNP...

NoNeed

15,137 posts

199 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
simoid said:
Welshbeef said:
Also no one in the UK voted for the current govt (but overall they are doing a rather good job especially given he hand they were dealt)
And the northern isles (with all their oil) didnae vote SNP...
Nor did 3/4 of scots vote for the SNP but they got them.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
NoNeed said:
Nor did 3/4 of scots vote for the SNP but they got them.
What happens in the May 2015 general election if the SNP lose all their seats? Who would then if its a yes vote carry on/complete the negotiations

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
What happens in the May 2015 general election if the SNP lose all their seats? Who would then if its a yes vote carry on/complete the negotiations
When UKIP are negotiating Scotland's entry to the EU? hehe

McWigglebum4th

32,414 posts

203 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
Wombat3 said:
Spot on - Scotland may well not have voted for a Tory Gov't - but then the South East didn't vote for 13 years of the idiots Bliar & Brooon...
More labour MPs inside the M25 then in scotland

hehe

ukbabz

1,538 posts

125 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
McWigglebum4th said:
More labour MPs inside the M25 then in scotland

hehe
More people too..

Gecko1978

9,600 posts

156 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
SusMy point was together we are stronger not perfect but stronger. Seperate there will always
Be a weaker partner (according to evening standard today londons gdp is greater than twice gdp of scotland and wales combined) and in the event of a yes vote negociations will favour the stronger party.

why do some find that hard to understand. Scotland are being sold a lie example "14th richest nation in the world" versus being the sixth (except the posters don't tell you curently we are 6th). Its really ok to be independant (sorry wiggly) all the best to scotland if they choose that, but please understand what you are loosing and make sure the so called
Gains are true.
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