Does anybody have a holiday rental property in a ski resort?

Does anybody have a holiday rental property in a ski resort?

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Discussion

Steve7777

Original Poster:

235 posts

148 months

Monday 7th April 2014
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I'm thinking about investing in a holiday rental in a French ski resort and am trying to see if the numbers stack up. I can see what rents are being asked for different types of properties but if anyone with experience could give any insights into likely occupancy rates or other things to think about that would be very useful

I live in Geneva so wouldn't be a million miles away from it if there was a problem, but would still need to pay someone to change the sheets each week etc.

Thanks!

Revisitph

983 posts

186 months

Monday 7th April 2014
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I don't, but if you look in Homes, Gardens and DIY there's someone who does - a very interesting thread which stuck in my mind for the wrong reasons - go to the thread, use the "search" function and look for "rutting sarlacc" and you'll see why!

Steve7777

Original Poster:

235 posts

148 months

Monday 7th April 2014
quotequote all
Wow, well I'm not planning to take on a project like that!

Janosh

1,735 posts

166 months

Tuesday 8th April 2014
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We own an apartment in Chamonix and have rented it out on an annual lease to a local couple.

Weekly rentals would be more volatile and by my calculation wouldn't necessarily bring in more income.

The current rental income almost covers the costs (3 years in) but our mortgage is fixed for the duration so the next rental increase should see us breaking even (obivously not taking into consideration the cap gains!).

I hope that helps

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Tuesday 8th April 2014
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I don't have a rental property in a ski resort, but one day I'd like to. smile

OscarIndia

1,126 posts

171 months

Tuesday 8th April 2014
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I have a Chalet in Les Gets and do weekly rentals through a local agent.
Most weeks I am not there it is rented out, but that is just during the winter season.
There is a vibrant summer season, but we have yet to tap into that effectively.
I have no mortgage, so mine easily breaks even and leaves a pot to do improvements etc after having paid for our skiing(4 Weeks a season).
Be careful when doing your calculations that you include all Taxes, water, electric and oil.
Any questions just ask!

foliedouce

3,067 posts

230 months

Tuesday 8th April 2014
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Janosh said:
We own an apartment in Chamonix and have rented it out on an annual lease to a local couple.

Weekly rentals would be more volatile and by my calculation wouldn't necessarily bring in more income.

The current rental income almost covers the costs (3 years in) but our mortgage is fixed for the duration so the next rental increase should see us breaking even (obivously not taking into consideration the cap gains!).

I hope that helps
When do you get to use it then?

foliedouce

3,067 posts

230 months

Tuesday 8th April 2014
quotequote all
Steve7777 said:
I'm thinking about investing in a holiday rental in a French ski resort and am trying to see if the numbers stack up. I can see what rents are being asked for different types of properties but if anyone with experience could give any insights into likely occupancy rates or other things to think about that would be very useful

I live in Geneva so wouldn't be a million miles away from it if there was a problem, but would still need to pay someone to change the sheets each week etc.

Thanks!
Very jealous, I have to say owning a property in the Alps is definitely on my 'to do' list, the problem being my budget won't stretch to my tastes!

Anyway, I can't help directly, but I am on another forum where there are loads of Alpine property owners who are happy to share information, so you may want to have a look there:-

www.snowheads.com


OscarIndia

1,126 posts

171 months

Tuesday 8th April 2014
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Snowheads is a great resource, I am on their too as are some other Pistonheaders.
As I said any questions....

foliedouce

3,067 posts

230 months

Tuesday 8th April 2014
quotequote all
OscarIndia said:
Snowheads is a great resource, I am on their too as are some other Pistonheaders.
As I said any questions....
Slight thread hijack (sorry!), but how did you go about looking for your property? Where is your place? Does it wash it's face on rentals?

I really want to buy a place but just can't afford what I want in the resort I want. Ideally I'd like a 3-4 bed place in Val D'Isere which for something reasonable is seven figures.

So.....I started thinking about looking in less known resorts but still with good links to a decent size ski area.



OscarIndia

1,126 posts

171 months

Tuesday 8th April 2014
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I have skied all over Europe and worked in Mottaret for 2 seasons. My first thought was big resort with a huge ski area.
I then went to Les Gets for a week and really loved the ambiance and the skiing.
It is not huge but can be made bigger with forays off piste.
When we were there I was in the Police station and my Missus was looking in the estate agent opposite, saw a chalet and.....
For my Budget I could get a 10 bed Chalet in Les Gets, or a 4/5 bed apartment in the 3 valleys.
Les Gets is up and coming, values are strengthening so my investment seems to be paying off.
I ski 4/5 weeks a year, with friends who tag along in my chalet that equates to a benefit of @€10k to me.
I also get rentals of @ €17k pa.
I have no mortgage, which means it not only wipes it's face, but also pays the Kids school fees!
There are companies who will help you find properties when you know what area you want to be in, if you want details I can help.
Probably missed loads out, but keep asking!

Edited by OscarIndia on Tuesday 8th April 19:52

Mr Noble

6,535 posts

232 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
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FWIW - I spent a lot of time looking into this a couple of years ago. Ended up deciding that Les Gets, Morzine or Avoriaz were better locations than the posh places as they're cheaper, generally prettier and more traditional, and also about an hour closer to airports or to drive to.

In the end, I realised that there was little benefit to buying a ski apartment over just investing in another rental house here in the UK. The same money spent will make similar if not bigger returns, and ought to have comparible capital growth. I decided to buy another house here and just pay to go skiing when I wanted to. Far easier to do it that way!

I guess things would be different if you intend to use the place for maybe 4 weeks in winter AND 4 weeks in summer, and can still break even from renting it out, but that's very hard to do unless you're buying outright.

That said, I remember looking into some leaseback schemes over in Les Gets which were very interesting. You put a deposit down, the selling company does everything else for you, you can get one, two or more weeks a year in it yourself, and AFAIR you own it after 9 years. I'm still tempted to do this.


Janosh

1,735 posts

166 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
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foliedouce said:
When do you get to use it then?
I lived there for 3 years, but have relocated to the UK now... Over the next few years I want to ski other resorts so don't need to keep an option open in Chamonix.

P-Jay

10,551 posts

190 months

Thursday 10th April 2014
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OscarIndia said:
I have a Chalet in Les Gets and do weekly rentals through a local agent.
Most weeks I am not there it is rented out, but that is just during the winter season.
There is a vibrant summer season, but we have yet to tap into that effectively.
I have no mortgage, so mine easily breaks even and leaves a pot to do improvements etc after having paid for our skiing(4 Weeks a season).
Be careful when doing your calculations that you include all Taxes, water, electric and oil.
Any questions just ask!
My wife and I are looking for a place in Les / Morz for August for a week. Needs to be 2 bedrooms and 'child friendly' - pm me the details if you're in the marker and have some availability for w/c 23rd Aug (assuming Sat transfer day) and I'll put it to the Boss.

OscarIndia

1,126 posts

171 months

Thursday 10th April 2014
quotequote all
I will PM some details and my contact number, give me a call and I can talk you through it.

Thanks

Max

Steve7777

Original Poster:

235 posts

148 months

Thursday 10th April 2014
quotequote all
Thanks for the replies. I actually have a Snowheads login but didn't think to search on there so will check that out. I think being in Geneva I'd be able to use it regularly when it wasn't rented out, but just need to do the numbers now to see how many weeks I'd have to rent it out to cover mortgage, tax, someone to do the weekly changeover and cleaning etc. Les Gets is nice for sure but would make me nervous about getting a few low snow years in a row

Janosh

1,735 posts

166 months

Thursday 10th April 2014
quotequote all
If you haven't considered it before - it might be worth looking at Les Contamines. Property is relatively good value for money and it's also <1 hour from Geneva.

It's a good ski area and it's easy enough to get to Chamonix and Megeve for a day out and a little variety.

Same goes for La Clusaz & Le Grand Bornand; they seem to be lesser known resorts.

The_Doc

4,855 posts

219 months

Sunday 13th April 2014
quotequote all
P-Jay said:
OscarIndia said:
I have a Chalet in Les Gets and do weekly rentals through a local agent.
Most weeks I am not there it is rented out, but that is just during the winter season.
There is a vibrant summer season, but we have yet to tap into that effectively.
I have no mortgage, so mine easily breaks even and leaves a pot to do improvements etc after having paid for our skiing(4 Weeks a season).
Be careful when doing your calculations that you include all Taxes, water, electric and oil.
Any questions just ask!
My wife and I are looking for a place in Les / Morz for August for a week. Needs to be 2 bedrooms and 'child friendly' - pm me the details if you're in the marker and have some availability for w/c 23rd Aug (assuming Sat transfer day) and I'll put it to the Boss.
This is our place in Morzine:

http://www.chaletsdirect.com/morzine/cornicheb1.ht...

It rents out every single week of the winter season, all the weeks that aren't baggsied by family. I've done some summer holidays in Morzine and it's really lovely. Particularly now the new pool has been completed in the village. 30 celcius easily some days.

The real win, however is my dad bought it in 2001 and Morzine has become so popular that it's probably worth 400% in value now.