What's Italian for 'kipper? Anti-migrant stunt goes awry.
Discussion
Guam said:
Returning to the subject of Questionable campaign material, here is a Tory anti Labour one.
Stereotyping Check
Misleading Check
Tasteless Check
Plenty of poorly thought out campaign material out there from every major party (and some minor ones), of course none of that will count as they arent "kippers"
Except it isn't, is it? Tory, official, or genuine, I mean. Stereotyping Check
Misleading Check
Tasteless Check
Plenty of poorly thought out campaign material out there from every major party (and some minor ones), of course none of that will count as they arent "kippers"
McWigglebum4th said:
FredClogs said:
I thought I'd explained that once you accept the posters are racist you have to accept that the creator and founder of the posters is a racist. They are racist. They aim to divide and judge on birth place alone, taking no other factors into account, that (as they say) is racist.
But it doesn't mention the welsh?FredClogs said:
I thought I'd explained that once you accept the posters are racist you have to accept that the creator and founder of the posters is a racist. They are racist. They aim to divide and judge on birth place alone, taking no other factors into account, that (as they say) is racist.
How are you defining "race" ?FredClogs said:
Mr_B said:
FredClogs said:
Mr_B said:
I find your use of the word racist near constantly in every debate rather silly.
Ha, was that supposed to be funny?It's a word that describes the human condition, we're all guilty of it, especially the white middle classes.
First step to recovery is admitting you are what you are.
I find I'm more selfish than racist. The company I work for has around 20% Polish guys working for it, really nice people and hard workers who just go about their life and don't really wish to change or moan about the UK.
One of them made a comment the other day which had some raised eyebrows from the Brits in the room when he complained about 3 years and no pay rise. When someone else mentioned the fact the company didn't need to because it had no problem or shortage of getting more immigrant labour who were happy with the wages, it made a few of us laugh at the changing situations involved.
As a side not to all the above, I'm afraid to say that as much as you and some others may love it to be white middle class people in the country as the most racist and group that most need your moral back slapping ' I'm fighting racism ' comments, I found some of the Polish guys far worse than much of what I would call daily life in the UK.
Example, I took one guy who was new to the UK around London to show him around some of the jobs in town. I've not been with anyone who hardly knows me before but who was comfortable telling me that it was a shame to see a nice white girl with a black male , or when driving past a gay pub, that in Poland they wouldn't be so public in their behavior because they would get a beating if two men held hands in public.
Yes, I know, one guys comments don't taint a whole nation, but when people like you do nothing by bore me with your endless white English must be racist type rubbish, you may do well to remember the very people you make out as being the victims of English racism are themselves far from immune from what you moralise over.
But accepting your view point that the posters are now racist and he is such for funding them, what are pet projects of his you mention and how is someone funding Ukip not then contributing to their coffers ?
Guam said:
Justayellowbadge said:
Guam said:
Returning to the subject of Questionable campaign material, here is a Tory anti Labour one.
Stereotyping Check
Misleading Check
Tasteless Check
Plenty of poorly thought out campaign material out there from every major party (and some minor ones), of course none of that will count as they arent "kippers"
Except it isn't, is it? Tory, official, or genuine, I mean. Stereotyping Check
Misleading Check
Tasteless Check
Plenty of poorly thought out campaign material out there from every major party (and some minor ones), of course none of that will count as they arent "kippers"
http://mylabourposter.typepad.com/blog/
I am not sure that I would say racist, and I think that racist is a misplaced term anyway, as there is only one human race, subdivided into ethnic, national, cultural and religious sub groups. I think that the stance reflected by the UKIP Posters can fairly be classed as xenophobic. It is all about "them" coming over here and mucking it up for "us". The definitions of "them" and "us" are mutable over time. As noted above, the stance adopted is protectionist and anti competition. To this extent the right wing UKIP adopts an anti-capitalist policy that you might think was more left wing, but the left tends in general (with exceptions) more towards internationalism. People sometimes forget that the EU is all about a particular form of regulated free market capitalism operating within a tariff barrier, despite its more lefty social policies.
Breadvan72 said:
I am not sure that I would say racist, and I think that racist is a misplaced term anyway, as there is only one human race, subdivided into ethnic, national, cultural and religious sub groups. I think that the stance reflected by the UKIP Posters can fairly be classed as xenophobic. It is all about "them" coming over here and mucking it up for "us". The definitions of "them" and "us" are mutable over time. As noted above, the stance adopted is protectionist and anti competition. To this extent the right wing UKIP adopts an anti-capitalist policy that you might think was more left wing, but the left tends in general (with exceptions) more towards internationalism. People sometimes forget that the EU is all about a particular form of regulated free market capitalism operating within a tariff barrier, despite its more lefty social policies.
So when the EU want to restrict trade to people who pay to be in their trade club it's good, but when UKIP suggest we should be playing in the global market it's bad?Mr_B said:
FredClogs said:
Mr_B said:
FredClogs said:
Mr_B said:
I find your use of the word racist near constantly in every debate rather silly.
Ha, was that supposed to be funny?It's a word that describes the human condition, we're all guilty of it, especially the white middle classes.
First step to recovery is admitting you are what you are.
I find I'm more selfish than racist. The company I work for has around 20% Polish guys working for it, really nice people and hard workers who just go about their life and don't really wish to change or moan about the UK.
One of them made a comment the other day which had some raised eyebrows from the Brits in the room when he complained about 3 years and no pay rise. When someone else mentioned the fact the company didn't need to because it had no problem or shortage of getting more immigrant labour who were happy with the wages, it made a few of us laugh at the changing situations involved.
As a side not to all the above, I'm afraid to say that as much as you and some others may love it to be white middle class people in the country as the most racist and group that most need your moral back slapping ' I'm fighting racism ' comments, I found some of the Polish guys far worse than much of what I would call daily life in the UK.
Example, I took one guy who was new to the UK around London to show him around some of the jobs in town. I've not been with anyone who hardly knows me before but who was comfortable telling me that it was a shame to see a nice white girl with a black male , or when driving past a gay pub, that in Poland they wouldn't be so public in their behavior because they would get a beating if two men held hands in public.
Yes, I know, one guys comments don't taint a whole nation, but when people like you do nothing by bore me with your endless white English must be racist type rubbish, you may do well to remember the very people you make out as being the victims of English racism are themselves far from immune from what you moralise over.
But accepting your view point that the posters are now racist and he is such for funding them, what are pet projects of his you mention and how is someone funding Ukip not then contributing to their coffers ?
Economic selfishness is fine, but nation, race, religion is not "self". There is no "we" kemosabe, that's Thatcherism 101, any belief in an "us" is just a fiction of the hegemonic structure of the old world order, it's very pre-internet. And if there is no "us" then creating a "them" is only ever done for one reason.
Breadvan72 said:
I am not sure that I would say racist, and I think that racist is a misplaced term anyway, as there is only one human race, subdivided into ethnic, national, cultural and religious sub groups. I think that the stance reflected by the UKIP Posters can fairly be classed as xenophobic. It is all about "them" coming over here and mucking it up for "us". The definitions of "them" and "us" are mutable over time. As noted above, the stance adopted is protectionist and anti competition. To this extent the right wing UKIP adopts an anti-capitalist policy that you might think was more left wing, but the left tends in general (with exceptions) more towards internationalism. People sometimes forget that the EU is all about a particular form of regulated free market capitalism operating within a tariff barrier, despite its more lefty social policies.
As a kipper i would not describe myself as xenophobicI'm more
Idiotphobic and fecklessphobic
I don't give a f
k where you come from and what colour you are as long as you contribute towards the good of the nation.I'd happily see british feckless idiots fired out of a large cannon into the middle of the atlantic
Sadly large cannons aren't yet a UKIP policy
However a points based immigration system is
And using a points based immigration system if we need 26 million bog cleaners we can let them in
But i would rather our own workers cleaned bogs when needed
But that is below them.
Breadvan72 said:
I am not sure that I would say racist, and I think that racist is a misplaced term anyway, as there is only one human race, subdivided into ethnic, national, cultural and religious sub groups. I think that the stance reflected by the UKIP Posters can fairly be classed as xenophobic. It is all about "them" coming over here and mucking it up for "us". The definitions of "them" and "us" are mutable over time.
Really? I see the message from the pro-UKIP posters on here time and time again as "We're all for immigration, we'd just like a say in who comes through the door" Breadvan72 said:
As noted above, the stance adopted is protectionist and anti competition.
That's pretty much how I see the EU, have a look at what's happening to the UK sugar industry for a good example of how the EU and it's protectionist rules is making it harder for member states' businesses to be profitable.Breadvan72 said:
To this extent the right wing UKIP adopts an anti-capitalist policy that you might think was more left wing, but the left tends in general (with exceptions) more towards internationalism. People sometimes forget that the EU is all about a particular form of regulated free market capitalism operating within a tariff barrier, despite its more lefty social policies.
The internationalist left might thrive in the bien peasant, Islington-centric London elite, but go and have a chat with a few Labour voters up here in the frozen wastelands of the North East, see how internationalist the former shipworkers are watching contracts go to Korea or Japan, or the former mineworkers seeing cheap Polish coal arrive.Politicians of both the left and right are woefully out of touch with the mood of the nation, and it is this inability to connect that fuels xenophobia and the increase in popularity of a politician who appears to understand everyday people's innate fear of change which is foisted upon them, rather than with their consent. We are a tolerant and welcoming nation, but people in many parts of the UK are not seeing the vast benefits that immigration can bring. To cry 'racist' or belittle them whenever they raise their concerns ultimately does more harm than good.
FredClogs said:
Mr_B said:
FredClogs said:
Mr_B said:
FredClogs said:
Mr_B said:
I find your use of the word racist near constantly in every debate rather silly.
Ha, was that supposed to be funny?It's a word that describes the human condition, we're all guilty of it, especially the white middle classes.
First step to recovery is admitting you are what you are.
I find I'm more selfish than racist. The company I work for has around 20% Polish guys working for it, really nice people and hard workers who just go about their life and don't really wish to change or moan about the UK.
One of them made a comment the other day which had some raised eyebrows from the Brits in the room when he complained about 3 years and no pay rise. When someone else mentioned the fact the company didn't need to because it had no problem or shortage of getting more immigrant labour who were happy with the wages, it made a few of us laugh at the changing situations involved.
As a side not to all the above, I'm afraid to say that as much as you and some others may love it to be white middle class people in the country as the most racist and group that most need your moral back slapping ' I'm fighting racism ' comments, I found some of the Polish guys far worse than much of what I would call daily life in the UK.
Example, I took one guy who was new to the UK around London to show him around some of the jobs in town. I've not been with anyone who hardly knows me before but who was comfortable telling me that it was a shame to see a nice white girl with a black male , or when driving past a gay pub, that in Poland they wouldn't be so public in their behavior because they would get a beating if two men held hands in public.
Yes, I know, one guys comments don't taint a whole nation, but when people like you do nothing by bore me with your endless white English must be racist type rubbish, you may do well to remember the very people you make out as being the victims of English racism are themselves far from immune from what you moralise over.
But accepting your view point that the posters are now racist and he is such for funding them, what are pet projects of his you mention and how is someone funding Ukip not then contributing to their coffers ?
Economic selfishness is fine, but nation, race, religion is not "self". There is no "we" kemosabe, that's Thatcherism 101, any belief in an "us" is just a fiction of the hegemonic structure of the old world order, it's very pre-internet. And if there is no "us" then creating a "them" is only ever done for one reason.
Guam said:
Zod said:
Guam went off and cried to the mods, eh?
What do the mods think of your cat pictures, Guam?
Several people did when the original comments were made by that poster, I was not alone, would you like to be accused of being a BNP member or EDL organiser?What do the mods think of your cat pictures, Guam?
I presume you would not, that can have serious repercussions in real life, I think most could agree (unless one was a BNP member or EDL organiser of course).
I find racism repugnant and don.t suffer being seriously accused of it (as any fair minded person would agree).
As for the cats, no mention about them as memes are fair game on any internet forum, still raising your hackles then ZOD
As for the cats, just try to hold off. It really doesn't help.
Guam said:
IT was I understand A tory local campaign ad, if you know different feel free to clarify?
Tory Youth member according to this
http://www.theblueguerilla.co.uk/2013/04/tory-yout...
AS UKIP are supposedly responsible for everything anyone affiliated to them says or does than it seems fair game to throw that into the discussion on these threads?
So you are attempting to equate posters issued by UKIP's biggest donor with something produced by a local party individual? Try harder.Tory Youth member according to this
http://www.theblueguerilla.co.uk/2013/04/tory-yout...
AS UKIP are supposedly responsible for everything anyone affiliated to them says or does than it seems fair game to throw that into the discussion on these threads?
Edited by Guam on Tuesday 22 April 12:53
Zod said:
Guam said:
IT was I understand A tory local campaign ad, if you know different feel free to clarify?
Tory Youth member according to this
http://www.theblueguerilla.co.uk/2013/04/tory-yout...
AS UKIP are supposedly responsible for everything anyone affiliated to them says or does than it seems fair game to throw that into the discussion on these threads?
So you are attempting to equate posters issued by UKIP's biggest donor with something produced by a local party individual? Try harder.Tory Youth member according to this
http://www.theblueguerilla.co.uk/2013/04/tory-yout...
AS UKIP are supposedly responsible for everything anyone affiliated to them says or does than it seems fair game to throw that into the discussion on these threads?
Edited by Guam on Tuesday 22 April 12:53
Right you are...
WinstonWolf said:
So when the EU want to restrict trade to people who pay to be in their trade club it's good, but when UKIP suggest we should be playing in the global market it's bad?
Nothing I wrote could suggest that I take that view. In any event, the UK does play in the global market. I add that among my concerns about the EU is the effect on developing nations of EU trade and agricultural policies. If we could only get a democratic EU then we might be able to do something about that, but I am not holding my breath. As for choosing who comes in, the people who come in are mostly coming to be economically active. Where are the floods of migrant skivers that we were promised? There are some migrant skivers, and some migrant criminals, but floods?
On what rational principle should UK jobs be reserved for UK citizens? If you welcome industrious types, what are you really worried about? Is it cultural differences? Polyglot High Streets? Why do those things matter? Pressure on public services is a real issue in some areas, and Government planning for this has been piss poor, but are the agencies of the State really being overwhelmed by a tide of migrants, across the nation?
Does immigration have some negative aspects as well as positive ones? Yes. Does UKIP ramp the negatives up? I think it does.
As I said many pages ago, it is striking to see how the focus has shifted from "Eeeek! Muslims and brown people!" to "Eeeek! Europeans!", with the strange implication that the poor old muslims and brown people are now getting a raw deal. The reality, I suggest, is that UKIP plays to whatever the current boogey man demon appears to be. It is an organisation that promotes and thrives on fear, ignorance, and division.
Those of you who support UKIP, please have a long, hard and intellectually honest look at those posters and tell us that you aren't embarrassed by them. If you aren't, then we pretty much know where you stand.
Breadvan72 said:
WinstonWolf said:
So when the EU want to restrict trade to people who pay to be in their trade club it's good, but when UKIP suggest we should be playing in the global market it's bad?
Nothing I wrote could suggest that I take that view. In any event, the UK does play in the global market. I add that among my concerns about the EU is the effect on developing nations of EU trade and agricultural policies. If we could only get a democratic EU then we might be able to do something about that, but I am not holding my breath. As for choosing who comes in, the people who come in are mostly coming to be economically active. Where are the floods of migrant skivers that we were promised? There are some migrant skivers, and some migrant criminals, but floods?
On what rational principle should UK jobs be reserved for UK citizens? If you welcome industrious types, what are you really worried about? Is it cultural differences? Polyglot High Streets? Why do those things matter? Pressure on public services is a real issue in some areas, and Government planning for this has been piss poor, but are the agencies of the State really being overwhelmed by a tide of migrants, across the nation?
Does immigration have some negative aspects as well as positive ones? Yes. Does UKIP ramp the negatives up? I think it does.
As I said many pages ago, it is striking to see how the focus has shifted from "Eeeek! Muslims and brown people!" to "Eeeek! Europeans!", with the strange implication that the poor old muslims and brown people are now getting a raw deal. The reality, I suggest, is that UKIP plays to whatever the current boogey man demon appears to be. It is an organisation that promotes and thrives on fear, ignorance, and division.
Those of you who support UKIP, please have a long, hard and intellectually honest look at those posters and tell us that you aren't embarrassed by them. If you aren't, then we pretty much know where you stand.
Heck, let's throw one issue onto the floor and see how it develops.
Education. I'm aware of many schools where English is now the second language. How can this benefit anyone? We need adequate time for everyone to learn English as a primary language, if we're not meeting this aim *all* students are going to receive a sub-standard education.
If we can plan for the number of immigrants, wherever they come from, then we can cater for their needs.
The problem isn't change, it's badly managed or overly-rapid change.
Genuinely, are there many schools where English is not the first language? Are these schools in extremely ghettoised areas of Bradford or somewhere?
I know of many schools where a good number of children will have parents for whom English is not a first language (possibly there are examples where this number is the majority) - and these schools have genuine and real issues around that - but that's not the same as a school where English is not the first language. Is that what you meant or are there really schools where English is not the first language?
I know of many schools where a good number of children will have parents for whom English is not a first language (possibly there are examples where this number is the majority) - and these schools have genuine and real issues around that - but that's not the same as a school where English is not the first language. Is that what you meant or are there really schools where English is not the first language?
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