Cyril Smith - the revellations

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pingu393

7,712 posts

204 months

Friday 17th April 2015
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Thorodin said:
Since when has anyone of his dubious standing ever 'defended' himself?
Doesn't everyone defend themselves? The barrister is your mouthpiece and is working on your behalf.

I think the Saunders defence should not be allowed EVER - not because Janner will never see the inside of a cell, but because justice will never be seen to be done. Even if he is dead, the evidence should be heard. The evidence against Savile has been heard, why not Janner? It's a rhetorical question and I know why, but it would be nice to think that the victims' voices will be heard.

Mrr T

12,151 posts

264 months

Friday 17th April 2015
quotequote all
pingu393 said:
Thorodin said:
Since when has anyone of his dubious standing ever 'defended' himself?
Doesn't everyone defend themselves? The barrister is your mouthpiece and is working on your behalf.

I think the Saunders defence should not be allowed EVER - not because Janner will never see the inside of a cell, but because justice will never be seen to be done. Even if he is dead, the evidence should be heard. The evidence against Savile has been heard, why not Janner? It's a rhetorical question and I know why, but it would be nice to think that the victims' voices will be heard.
You do understand he has only been accused of a crime. That does not mean he is guilty. Many who are accursed of a crime will then be found not guilt.

In order to stand trial a person must be able to a) understand the charges b) give evidence if they choose and c) give instructions to solicitors and barristers. Its clear if you have dementia you can do none of these things so you cannot have a fair trial. Even if the CPS had decided to proceed any defence lawyer would have argued their client was incapable of having a fair trial and the judge would have throw the case out.

So the CPS where just saving us money,

What do you suggest we should start using the ducking stool to decide cases.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 17th April 2015
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
You do understand he has only been accused of a crime. That does not mean he is guilty. Many who are accursed of a crime will then be found not guilt.

In order to stand trial a person must be able to a) understand the charges b) give evidence if they choose and c) give instructions to solicitors and barristers. Its clear if you have dementia you can do none of these things so you cannot have a fair trial. Even if the CPS had decided to proceed any defence lawyer would have argued their client was incapable of having a fair trial and the judge would have throw the case out.

So the CPS where just saving us money,

What do you suggest we should start using the ducking stool to decide cases.
I think people are very aware that this is only an accusation, not a conviction.

But when the refusal to prosecute is viewed in light of the fact that Janner attended the Lords days before his house was raided, that he was a company director until last week I think people are entitle to say "pull the other one, it's got bells on"
And maybe even get the ducking stool out.

Mrr T

12,151 posts

264 months

Friday 17th April 2015
quotequote all
desolate said:
I think people are very aware that this is only an accusation, not a conviction.

But when the refusal to prosecute is viewed in light of the fact that Janner attended the Lords days before his house was raided, that he was a company director until last week I think people are entitle to say "pull the other one, it's got bells on"
And maybe even get the ducking stool out.
I am no expert but as far as I was aware there is no automatic ban to attending the House of Lords as a member, or of being a company Director if you have dementia. Indeed, I think currently there is no way of removing a member of the House of Lords no matter how mad they are. I would expect other directors of a company to be concerned if one of the other directors was incompetent.

However, he has been diagnosed by several Doctors as having serious dementia so that would count most.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 17th April 2015
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
desolate said:
I think people are very aware that this is only an accusation, not a conviction.

But when the refusal to prosecute is viewed in light of the fact that Janner attended the Lords days before his house was raided, that he was a company director until last week I think people are entitle to say "pull the other one, it's got bells on"
And maybe even get the ducking stool out.
I am no expert but as far as I was aware there is no automatic ban to attending the House of Lords as a member, or of being a company Director if you have dementia. Indeed, I think currently there is no way of removing a member of the House of Lords no matter how mad they are. I would expect other directors of a company to be concerned if one of the other directors was incompetent.

However, he has been diagnosed by several Doctors as having serious dementia so that would count most.
I bet he remembered to claim his expenses.

Needs a lot more to convince me his mates haven't helped him out. Not that that counts for anything in particular.

Lying bds, taking the piss out of us all.


dudleybloke

19,717 posts

185 months

Friday 17th April 2015
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Age or infirmity are no bar from prosecution.

Keep repeating that as its a quote by Grevillw Janner.

Thorodin

2,459 posts

132 months

Friday 17th April 2015
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[quote=pingu393]

Doesn't everyone defend themselves? The barrister is your mouthpiece and is working on your behalf.
quote]......
(My selective quote)

Yes of course, mouthpieces. We are painfully aware of the euphemisms so usefully managed by the legal industry. That's been a convenient get out of jail card (pun intended) for many years. A convention that covers a multitude of excuses.

What I had in mind was the introduction of something similar to a court order appointing a 'ward' (as in Family Division) to look after the interests of the accused, or those assumed to be lacking in comprehension, by a competent person or firm. The condition is similar in many respects and with the resources available to his family it's not beyond the bounds to expect the 'best' in the land. Which is the more important and pressing, treating this man with kid gloves, bearing in mind the multiple escapes he has managed before, or considering the interests and well being of the relevant witnesses here (and any future witnesses in this or other cases)? It's not a case of the peasants getting their horny hands on him, he's accused of getting his on them!



55palfers

5,892 posts

163 months

Friday 17th April 2015
quotequote all
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/lord-ja...


Maybe Greville will wish he had been more charitable in the past....

Thorodin

2,459 posts

132 months

Friday 17th April 2015
quotequote all
Given Janner's association with the Board of Deputies of British Jews and the relevance of Holocaust considerations to that body, his strength of feelings towards alleged former Nazis is predictable if not understandable.
However, his subsequent reliance on professed ill health does him no credit. Hypocrisy should also be a crime, as should protection against prosecution by official bodies and individuals. If respect for the law is considered one of those 'British values' that are currently bandied about....

dudleybloke

19,717 posts

185 months

Friday 17th April 2015
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Janner's connections to various intelligence agencies should not be underestimated.

carinaman

21,210 posts

171 months

Friday 17th April 2015
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Camoradi said:
I have just checked the House of Lords attendance records. He attended 15 days in November 2013, and 12 days in December 2013. His house was raided by police on 20th December 2013 and he hasn't attended since.

November 2013 http://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-finance-o...

December 2013 - http://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-finance-o...

January 2014 - http://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-finance-o...
Thank you Camoradi.

carinaman

21,210 posts

171 months

Friday 17th April 2015
quotequote all
From 13 April 2014:

Derek Smith said:
As you say. This current DM expose is nothing more than Dacre special. He appears to demand a shock theme to run, the last time it was Harman and her supposedly being an apologist for paedophilia. He's turning this into an anti left thing now and the police and the BBC won't be long in appearing.
Last paragraph from The Telegraph website yesterday:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11543...


On BBC Radio 4's PM they interviewed a chap called Joe Sullivan that's been using his experience of child sex crimes to develop something called IPC to train police officers and firemen to spot behaviours (and tattoos) that may indicate someone has a sexual interest in children.

I wonder if someone is doing similar research into how organisations cover up the child sexual abuse, inc. the BBC?

Interesting the BBC chose to run the Joe Sullivan interview after the Lord Janner news yesterday.

Plod and the CPS are more interested in going after the Press than Paedos.

Edited by carinaman on Friday 17th April 18:17

Mojocvh

16,837 posts

261 months

Friday 17th April 2015
quotequote all
carinaman said:
Camoradi said:
I have just checked the House of Lords attendance records. He attended 15 days in November 2013, and 12 days in December 2013. His house was raided by police on 20th December 2013 and he hasn't attended since.

November 2013 http://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-finance-o...

December 2013 - http://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-finance-o...

January 2014 - http://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-finance-o...
Thank you Camoradi.
Seconded. Thank you.

RyanOPlastry

750 posts

207 months

Friday 17th April 2015
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Why should he avoid prosecution because of Alzheimer's? Ernest Saunders has demonstrated that it is a condition that it can be fully recovered from.

number 46

1,019 posts

247 months

Friday 17th April 2015
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Yes, but recovery is only possible when you get off the charge!!!!!!!

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 17th April 2015
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RyanOPlastry said:
Why should he avoid prosecution because of Alzheimer's? Ernest Saunders has demonstrated that it is a condition that it can be fully recovered from.
It's difficult to see how someone with Alzheimer's could get a fair trail BUT this teat was in the house of lords giving it large until just before his house was raided. Why wait over a year to make the decision?


It stinks.

Piss taking wkers.

carinaman

21,210 posts

171 months

Saturday 18th April 2015
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Some headline on the BBC news website about how head of CPS wasn't told of Janner. I've not read it yet. I may leave it til Monday.

carinaman

21,210 posts

171 months

Monday 20th April 2015
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A fresh faced young man and doubts about Vaz's impartiality:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/04/17/labour-...

55palfers

5,892 posts

163 months

Monday 20th April 2015
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3046384/DP...

Hmm.

Seems Janner's lad works at same chambers as lawyer advising CPS.

Cosy.